US Army helicopter / American Airlines Crash in DC | Medical plane crash in Philly

I'm about to give up on this country..was listening to a local radio station that's very popular in the Detroit metro area (Mojo in the morning) and some of the DJs actually thought giving Trump's statements about DEI could have truth in them.

At least douchebag main man Mojo didn't do much to dispel the notion by basically implying DEI is a likely factor in the shortage of air traffic controllers. I already thought the dude always sounded like a massive twat considering he just can't stop talking about sex to the point where it's just creepy - but that takes the cake. This is a show that normally Id say airs more on the progressive side of the spectrum. No pun intended.
 
Redplane said:
I'm about to give up on this country..was listening to a local radio station that's very popular in the Detroit metro area (Mojo in the morning) and some of the DJs actually thought giving Trump's statements about DEI could have truth in them.

At least douchebag main man Mojo didn't do much to dispel the notion by basically implying DEI is a likely factor in the shortage of air traffic controllers. I already thought the dude always sounded like a massive twat considering he just can't stop talking about sex to the point where it's just creepy - but that takes the cake. This is a show that normally Id say airs more on the progressive side of the spectrum. No pun intended.
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I didn't take metro Detroit for any knd of Trump supporting country!

The biggest factor in ATC shortages is still probably Ronald Reagan despite him being dead 20 years!
 
The lesson that will be learnt from this (and that shouldn't have taken this accident to be put into effect) is not to have VFR separation at night in busy air spaces for anyone. I haven't seen any indication that ATC actually carries any fault here. It seems to have been human error on the helicopter pilot's side, but it was a mistake that was way too easy to make.
 
Red in STL said:
I didn't take metro Detroit for any knd of Trump supporting country!

The biggest factor in ATC shortages is still probably Ronald Reagan despite him being dead 20 years!
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Is there any metric in the country that the man hasn't ruined for decades?
 
Red in STL said:
I didn't take metro Detroit for any knd of Trump supporting country!

The biggest factor in ATC shortages is still probably Ronald Reagan despite him being dead 20 years!
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I didn't think immigrants would ever sell their souls and vote for him too but yet here we are. They deserve all the shame and embarrassment that comes with it. Funny thing is the people who didn't vote for him feel more responsible for this mess than the people who did.
 
Black hawk pilots have said that most likely the pilots in the helicopter mistook the aircraft being referred to by ATC to a different one since they acknowledged seeing it. They simply did not sight the one nearer to them.
 
Red in STL said:
I didn't take metro Detroit for any knd of Trump supporting country!

The biggest factor in ATC shortages is still probably Ronald Reagan despite him being dead 20 years!
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As a whole it's not but it concerns me when people with that kind of reach suddenly sow these kinds of doubts into the listeners. It's a bit like the Rogan effect: pushing to enough in one direction that it seems like you're balanced.

Reagan being the source of many problems we still deal with today is undoubtedly true but at the same time we've had enough years to fix things as well.
 
wr8_utd said:


Ignore the comment but another video of the collision.
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Is crazy how the how long the helicopter goes straight for so long. their visibility had to be very poor. So many videos without spoiler. @Stack might be having a seizure with all the drama
 
Abizzz said:
The lesson that will be learnt from this (and that shouldn't have taken this accident to be put into effect) is not to have VFR separation at night in busy air spaces for anyone. I haven't seen any indication that ATC actually carries any fault here. It seems to have been human error on the helicopter pilot's side, but it was a mistake that was way too easy to make.
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VFR separation works just fine. 1 accident like this probably won't shift the needles.
 
Redplane said:
As a whole it's not but it concerns me when people with that kind of reach suddenly sow these kinds of doubts into the listeners. It's a bit like the Rogan effect: pushing to enough in one direction that it seems like you're balanced.

Reagan being the source of many problems we still deal with today is undoubtedly true but at the same time we've had enough years to fix things as well.
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True but even today many aviation folks will not call DCA the name it was given!

Trump better be careful what he wishes for, there's already a shortage of ATC folks, it takes years to train them and it's already one of the most stressful jobs there is, start pissing them off and they will likely say just say fcuk it, that happens to any large degree then he's gonna find trouble brewing
 
baskinginthesun said:
VFR separation works just fine. 1 accident like this probably won't shift the needles.
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In normal circumstances I'd agree, in this case it might very well do so, this was a VIP helicopter, they carry the bigwigs around, they're not gonna want to put their necks on the line and they have the power to get things changed
 
baskinginthesun said:
VFR separation works just fine. 1 accident like this probably won't shift the needles.
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If this one doesn't the 2nd or 3rd should. With an ever increasing amount of air space users in regions like DC I don't see how this mistake isn't repeated at some point.
 
Red in STL said:
In normal circumstances I'd agree, in this case it might very well do so, this was a VIP helicopter, they carry the bigwigs around, they're not gonna want to put their necks on the line and they have the power to get things changed
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It will take a huge change. VFR separation is extremely efficient for airlines. We may say some change regarding helicopters and airplanes but, VFR Separation between airplanes works just fine.
 
Crazy for the helicopter to be anywhere near this plane flight path.

fgpi2Bj.jpeg


Feels deliberate
 
redshaw said:
Crazy for the helicopter to be anywhere near this plane flight path.

fgpi2Bj.jpeg


Feels deliberate
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Why do some keep posting this when thus far not a single expert has stated this as a possibility?

Hitting a relatively small CRJ with an even smaller Blackhawk at the speeds they were going and at the point they collided would be neigh impossible to accomplish unless extreme luck and superhuman skills were at play.
 
baskinginthesun said:
It will take a huge change. VFR separation is extremely efficient for airlines. We may say some change regarding helicopters and airplanes but, VFR Separation between airplanes works just fine.
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Which in this case was moot for the airline because they were operating under IFR rules, it was the helicopter that was using VFR rules and that's the ones the VIP's use, if it's going to be changed that's where it'll get changed
 
Abizzz said:
If this one doesn't the 2nd or 3rd should. With an ever increasing amount of air space users in regions like DC I don't see how this mistake isn't repeated at some point.
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It's bound to happen again but this has been in place at DCA for a long time, it's also a slot-controlled airport, the airliners might get bigger but the numbers of airline flights isn't going up significantly, private jets are mostly banned so any increase is coming from the military
 
Red in STL said:
Which in this case was moot for the airline because they were operating under IFR rules, it was the helicopter that was using VFR rules and that's the ones the VIP's use, if it's going to be changed that's where it'll get changed
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I should have clarified. I was referring to visual separation. Which means crew members take responsibility for avoiding traffic even under IFR rules.

Why does being a VIP change anything?
 
baskinginthesun said:
I should have clarified. I was referring to visual separation. Which means crew members take responsibility for avoiding traffic even under IFR rules.

Why does being a VIP change anything?
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Because the kind of VIP's we're talking about in this particular scenario are the politicians, policy advisors and high ranking Government officials of Washington and the like, the sort of people who can and do make the rules on pretty much everything
 
Victor delivers again. ATC chatter from the same exact control tower , 24 hours before the fatal crash. Republic airways jet got a TCAS RA and went around , avoiding a helicopter - since the heli callsign was again PAT I assume it is again one of those goldtop BH for VIP use.
This was a near miss because (in my opinion ) it was above 1K ft and the RAs were not inhibited.



I got anxiety just from listening. It's incredible how busy this airspace is and the margins are really in seconds. Such a critical area too.
 
The Firestarter said:
Victor delivers again. ATC chatter from the same exact control tower , 24 hours before the fatal crash. Republic airways jet got a TCAS RA and went around , avoiding a helicopter - since the heli callsign was again PAT I assume it is again one of those goldtop BH for VIP use.
This was a near miss because (in my opinion ) it was above 1K ft and the RAs were not inhibited.



I got anxiety just from listening. It's incredible how busy this airspace is and the margins are really in seconds. Such a critical area too.
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Airport was there first, maybe time fpr the military to do one and make the VIP's drive or catch the Metro like the rest of us :)
 
Withholding the identity of the co-pilot seems like a very smart way to combat speculation and conspiracy theories.
 
Red in STL said:
So know you know it's about intent not inanimate objects, or maybe you just wanna piss take on details
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Look, if you answered the message that you quoted you to further the difficulty of crashing 2 small mobile objects with irony, I was lost in your irony, so I am dumb and I apologize

If you really quoted @The Firestarter to compare these 2 aircrafts with 9/11, I would say that is not comparable as any of the aircraft are much smaller than the twin towers, the twin towers don't move and also, those pilots trained months with that goal

As @The Firestarter said, I find it difficult to believe that is deliberately, but regardless if it was, it is much more difficult to accomplish than your 9/11 comparison. That is why my comments

So in the end, still not clear if you ironically were at the side of the @The Firestarter claim and I missed the irony or if you wrongly compared both instances
 
hobbers said:
Withholding the identity of the co-pilot seems like a very smart way to combat speculation and conspiracy theories.
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I mean if those culpable fit the the definition of 'DEI hire' then you'd think the Trump administration would be rushing to leak who was at fault.
 
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