I'd rather have McKenna. Maybe even Potter.
But not Frank or Southgate. Better to stick with Ten Hag then.
Unpopular Opinion | Not sacking Ten Hag
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I'd rather have McKenna. Maybe even Potter.
But not Frank or Southgate. Better to stick with Ten Hag then.
Nownow, you’re not really sincere here with the Schrödinger allusion. Or was Ferguson one manager from 1986-1990 when he had us at 11th and 13th, and then a completely different being from 1991 and onwards?
I think you understand very well that there are many, many factors influencing the performances and the league positions, and that the manager is just one of those factors, often the biggest factor, but not necessarily. Money is a bigger factor, normally, and Ferguson after PLC and TV economy was part of a better United than before PLC and TV economy, not a different manager. Pep with money is a completely different prospect than Pep without money, who might even be a lot worse package than Dyche without money?
Ferguson with a malfunctioning club structure wasn’t a dead cat that came alive, but a man who in cooperation with several other key figures worked together to change that club structure in a way that reaped actual first team performances only after five years of hard work.
Nowadays, only idiots like Ed Woodward expect an economist and a manager to be able to affect a club that broadly between themselves.
If we see Uniteds performance levels rise over night, we will not know wether it is a Solskjær bump or the evidence of a great manager coming in the door. Ten Hag a year ago looked like a brillant manager in most outsiders’eyes. Now he looks like a moron to many. It’s not two different excistances or entities, it’s the same manager trying to chip in with his 5% while trying to affect other factors in the club that will increase the positive influence over the next few or several years.
People like to be certain, because they don’t like to be uncertain. I am not certain what will happen if Ten Hag has another year at United, or even two. What I am certain of, is that there are a lot of people who feel like they know what’s going to happen, even if they actually don’t. The clue to The Schrödinger Mystery, is the box that prevents us from knowing.
You're basically saying that there's not much difference between finishing 6th and 17th. Nah.
Chelsea sacked Mourinho 7 months after winning a league title. They replaced him with Conte after Hiddink finished the season as interim.
Sacking the manager is what lead to the next season's success. That's actually a good reason to sack ten Hag.
That's the type of ruthlessness required at United.
That’s a more extreme range (we’ll finish either 7th or 8th) but my post wasn’t about sacking/keeping ETH?
Point is if we look back, regardless of the manager, and just assess the seasons post SAF, winning the FA cup is a whole lot better than winning F all.Obviously it’s highly unlikely we do win it, and it will be viewed as a shit season but there’s a sliver of hope.
You're suggesting that we can have a good season next season. I agree that's possible. But more likely under a new manager. A fresh start.
I don't really care about The FA Cup. It'd be nice to win it. Something to show for the worst overall season in decades. But that wasn't my point.
You are likely right re the cup.
Not sure if you want me to say 'well done' or something for the second line?
Yes, 100%, if you look at the league right now there are only 2 teams at an elite level. Add in the upward trajectory of a number of younger players + the messaging that Ineos a) know what they're doing in the transfer market and b) aren't going to get fleeced and there's no reason we can't get back into the CL places. My expectation is ETH sees out the season, we lose the final, they then announce someone they've already lined up for next season and we go into muppet overdrive again, full of hope once more.
I'm still ETH in as there's too many mitigating circumstances this season to land it all on his head.
I would, however, like to see better coaching staff brought into the club to do the day to day patterns of play and hopefully this becomes more top down from Wilcox/Ashworth with the right types of players being targeted.
ETH seems to have his head screwed on properly enough to recognise a new collaborative approach is necessary and he worked under Overmars with great success at Ajax.
Have there been wild decisions made by him this year? Absolutely. I'm not excusing him but I fail to see a ready made replacement who would guarantee an uptick in form from those available currently.
Give him (another) big summer but with more targeted players to fit the bigger picture, big clear out of the shite and move into next season with a whole different basis for the club and future. Young players, capable of playing in a style visible and obvious across the squads.
I'm actually vaguely optimistic moving into next season already because it quite literally cannot be any worse than this one
I would, however, like to see better coaching staff brought into the club to do the day to day patterns of play and hopefully this becomes more top down from Wilcox/Ashworth with the right types of players being targeted.
ETH seems to have his head screwed on properly enough to recognise a new collaborative approach is necessary and he worked under Overmars with great success at Ajax.
Have there been wild decisions made by him this year? Absolutely. I'm not excusing him but I fail to see a ready made replacement who would guarantee an uptick in form from those available currently.
Give him (another) big summer but with more targeted players to fit the bigger picture, big clear out of the shite and move into next season with a whole different basis for the club and future. Young players, capable of playing in a style visible and obvious across the squads.
I'm actually vaguely optimistic moving into next season already because it quite literally cannot be any worse than this one
I don’t want you to say anything, apologies if it read that way.
I’m just stating the long term opinion I have had regarding our manager.
Keeping him here for me would be a massive sign of weakness by the new hierarchy. Abject failure, injuries or not should not be tolerated or rewarded.
Previous managers went for less in my opinion.
If this was Glazer United he'd be out by now but we don't know how Ineos work. If they have found huge issues in the club, they might be focusing on them first or they might just rate ETH still, what's clear is he remains at the helm and there isn't a huge amount of noise about him going, although maybe it's comparable to LVG where there was that feeling there. Even though being sacked straight after winning the FA cup was a surprise to most.
I hope that opinion is also unpopular for SJR & friends. If anything, last game makes him look even worse than ever. I think he should get the chance with the FA cup final and then be axed regardless of the result.
Beating City and winning the FA Cup would be better than not, of course, but I don't think winning this one match should give us hope just like I don't think losing should kill our hope.
Winning the FA Cup should push us back into Europa too. Massive game.
This was said for Ole too. Replace Carrick and McKenna, keep Ole.
Turned out, Carrick and especially McKenna are pretty good while Ole was the bad one.
No amount of good coaching is gonna save us from EtH's insane tactics. Even if we somehow get Pep, Klopp and Ancelotti their assistants, with SAF giving the pep talks, having 50 yards empty between the defense and attack with no midfield in site is gonna be exploited by any half-decent teams (and many non half-decent ones too).
I don't remember us having those huge gaps in midfield last year though and I think a lot of that is down to personnel/injuries or so I'd like to hope.
Point taken on Carrick/McKenna though, I suppose coaches can only do so much
what if last year was EtH just doing the best with what he had, and this year was his attempt to really put in his system? That would be even more scary a thought if he was brought back next season.
I'm kind of in two minds on it.
On one hand, I feel we are the worst coached team in the league and are so open that I think it's criminal that he isn't tweaking things a little bit so that we aren't getting wrecked. A couple of weeks back I had a look at the stats and no other team in the league has had as many shots on goal as we have and that's a damning stat for our on-field performances. The person most responsible for this is the manager and as a result he deserves the sack.
On the other hand, I don't think there is a particularly excellent coach out there who we can bring in who will definitely turn things around. All of them are inexperienced at the highest level, or in the case of Tuchel, he'd be almost as toxic as Mourinho. On top of that, I like the idea of Ten Hag turning things around with a better squad and injury-free players. There was a time everyone wanted Arteta sacked and he's turned it around given the time. I also dislike resetting the entire team every few years and a new manager comes in, does well enough in his first season or two, and then completely fails and we repeat the cycle over and over again. I'd rather the new owners come in and take their time to figure out what is best and make a decision after considering all factors and laying out a proper plan for sustained success.
On one hand, I feel we are the worst coached team in the league and are so open that I think it's criminal that he isn't tweaking things a little bit so that we aren't getting wrecked. A couple of weeks back I had a look at the stats and no other team in the league has had as many shots on goal as we have and that's a damning stat for our on-field performances. The person most responsible for this is the manager and as a result he deserves the sack.
On the other hand, I don't think there is a particularly excellent coach out there who we can bring in who will definitely turn things around. All of them are inexperienced at the highest level, or in the case of Tuchel, he'd be almost as toxic as Mourinho. On top of that, I like the idea of Ten Hag turning things around with a better squad and injury-free players. There was a time everyone wanted Arteta sacked and he's turned it around given the time. I also dislike resetting the entire team every few years and a new manager comes in, does well enough in his first season or two, and then completely fails and we repeat the cycle over and over again. I'd rather the new owners come in and take their time to figure out what is best and make a decision after considering all factors and laying out a proper plan for sustained success.
That is indeed a scary thought.
I've no way to know for sure which way it is but yes, one way could be good and one way is definitely bad
But why did he change? That's the question. It's either down to injuries/personnel or because he wants to play that way and we don't really know which.
I'm leaning to injuries/personnel purely because the alternative is nonsensical for a manager to do through choice alone
He has to go after this horrid season, no question about it, even if we win the FA Cup, he must be sacked.
I really liked him and wanted him to succeed, but he's not good enough to manage at this level.
Honestly he shouldn't have finished this season, but it is what it is, let him finish the fiasco and let him go.
I really liked him and wanted him to succeed, but he's not good enough to manage at this level.
Honestly he shouldn't have finished this season, but it is what it is, let him finish the fiasco and let him go.
Would that be at Chelsea's expense? Very up for that.
We had at the beginning of last season when we got humbled too. Then he went pragmatic for most of the season, and we did alright (for some reason he went heads on against City and Liverpool, getting spanked in the process).
This season he changed his tactics, trying to be more imposing and attacking, in process giving us the worst season in the last 30 years.
Results - Poor
Performances - Terrible
Signings - Average / Poor
In-Game Management - Poor
Tactics - Highly Questionable
We're two seasons in...besides blind faith what justifies keeping him?
Performances - Terrible
Signings - Average / Poor
In-Game Management - Poor
Tactics - Highly Questionable
We're two seasons in...besides blind faith what justifies keeping him?
At least we’ll know the decision in 10-15 days.
This
His speech-giving ability, apparently
Speech-Giving - Average
it looked like that on the team sheet , but for me , Amrabat was the deepest . Look where mainoo was when he scored and also where he was when Amrabat chased down Izak .
It looks to me like Amrabat is deep with no license to rotate and that mainoo and Bruno have that license to rotate to be the high player.
"We go for it" was the season before and he was referencing going for the league the following season.
Don't disagree with the above.
However we're getting a new higly regarded CEO (Berrada), Technical Director (Wilcox) & Director of Football (Ashworth?).
None of our previous managers had a competent background setup that we're putting together now.
It was the end-of-season dinner in his first season, and he was referencing going for 3rd place by winning our remaining fixtures. The results for our last five matches ended up being pretty shit though, and we ultimately ended up 4th instead of 3rd.
He was also quite visibly drunk when he gave that speech, which naturally added to the charm.
I wish the speech had been nearly as good as some have made out. I think any one of us could have written it. Totally hit all the points you'd expect in the circumstances.No it wasn't, it was weirdly about going for 2nd position behind Chelsea. Which we didn't do.
This is Ten Hag's biggest problem by an absolute mile. It is why our season has been horrendous, it is why he should lose his job.
Ten Hag decided that 1 man in midfield is sufficient in the Premier League. He has been proved wrong in nearly every game we have played yet been blind to it, acted like it was purely down to injuries and other excuses.
Such a high percentage of our problems come down to this complete idiocy that it's hard to envision him continuing when he has placed his pure stubborn beliefs and ego above the team for a full season.
It was about finishing second to Chelsea. A very weird goal, this was the paragraph that came before "I said WE GO FOR IT"
"And then we had to believe, the players and also the staff, that we could end in second. I remember the meeting we had with the players, with the captain Wayne Rooney, saying we go for the second position in the league."
Like the man in the orthopaedic shoe...
No real need to feel corrected. Just always feels relevant to point out what a strange chap Van Gaal was.
I think it’s clear that this season he’s tried to play more his style. Last season the City game we got spanked was like a game this season. KDB was running at our defence in acres of space with our midfield trailing behind.
It’s true that he did play more conservatively after and I guess it helped when Fred came in when Eriksen got injured.
Saying that we were still really open in the second half of the season especially the left hand side. Eriksen used to split really wide to the left of CM to create passing overloads with Shaw who was high up too so Rashford could run in behind. It was pretty good offensively but teams used to pass into that particular gap behind us all the time.
The right side with Bruno, Antony and AWB was a lot more solid and that’s the difference between this year and last year. We are a mess in both sides of midfield this year off the ball and Casemiro has dropped off a cliff too. The Wolves game to open this season set the tone for how our midfield would look all season and ETH has done very little to solve it until recently which is unforgivable.
I’n in team ”Give Ten Hag a chance under new management and not appoint an underwhelming candidate”. We know for a fact Ten Hag is not a shite manager, he did a fantastic job at Ajax. Everyone was drooling watching his Ajax team push deep into the Champions League. Sure, he never replicated that in Europe but he did lose key players the following season. With talent and decent lads at his disposal I believe he can do good things.
If someone succeeds as a coach at Manchester United now it’s because of the new ownership, not because of their incredible management skills. We’ve sacked 6 managers in 11 years. Sacking and appointing has not worked for 11 years. If sacking and appointing works now it’s because of the new ownership. Might as well give Ten Hag a shot at it because the candidates on the market are not better than him. They are either on the same level or SLIGHTLY better (Tuchel, Potter, Nagelsmann) or slightly below or the same (Southgate, Flick, Mourinho) or not a good fit for United (Inzaghi). If we were to go for a new manager I’d rather go for a complete wild card, like McKenna, who has potential and a lot to prove. Might as well.
Other than that the only ones I would appoint are those who are clearly better managers than Ten Hag. Those are Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp. These two are the definite top 2 managers, the rest are moving up and down in the list, overtaking each other in periods of good form, then dropping down the list again in difficult times. Perhaps Zidane is worth a shout, but even he is doubtful even though his legendary aura would be enough to spur motivation. Pep and Klopp however are the only managers who would not only survive the Glazers, but thrive, because they are just on that level. Obviously that will never happen but the point is there is no manager available at that level. Might as well try to keep building on the foundation we already have. Might as well try to give the managers the tools to succeed. Let’s see how he does in a functional system.
If someone succeeds as a coach at Manchester United now it’s because of the new ownership, not because of their incredible management skills. We’ve sacked 6 managers in 11 years. Sacking and appointing has not worked for 11 years. If sacking and appointing works now it’s because of the new ownership. Might as well give Ten Hag a shot at it because the candidates on the market are not better than him. They are either on the same level or SLIGHTLY better (Tuchel, Potter, Nagelsmann) or slightly below or the same (Southgate, Flick, Mourinho) or not a good fit for United (Inzaghi). If we were to go for a new manager I’d rather go for a complete wild card, like McKenna, who has potential and a lot to prove. Might as well.
Other than that the only ones I would appoint are those who are clearly better managers than Ten Hag. Those are Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp. These two are the definite top 2 managers, the rest are moving up and down in the list, overtaking each other in periods of good form, then dropping down the list again in difficult times. Perhaps Zidane is worth a shout, but even he is doubtful even though his legendary aura would be enough to spur motivation. Pep and Klopp however are the only managers who would not only survive the Glazers, but thrive, because they are just on that level. Obviously that will never happen but the point is there is no manager available at that level. Might as well try to keep building on the foundation we already have. Might as well try to give the managers the tools to succeed. Let’s see how he does in a functional system.
During Fergusans first 5 yearas at OT he got 4th, 11th, 2nd, 12th and 13th but our weak board kept him on and the rest is history. I suspect if you were around then you may have been carrying the banner 'Fergusan out'. Personally I'm glad the board had the strength to keep him.