Unpopular (AKA fickle) opinion time on AWB.....

[Nou_Camp99]

Sign a defender to defend first of all, not to attack. Unless you think we need to carbon copy Liverpool's approach. I would rather have a solid defence than the gung ho focus down the wings.

It's not enough that he can defend if we are going to struggle against 14 teams who sit deep. He's totally not needed in those games. We'd be better off with a poorer defender but one who could overlap and cross a ball.

It's all well and good saying it's the attackers fault we can't score goals but when they sit in deep and mark our forwards closely if leaves huge spaces for our fullbacks to exploit. And they aren't capable of it.

Defensively Shaw and AWB are fine, AWB being the stronger. But you can't rely on CM to create all the goals. Fullbacks have to contribute in the modern game. Ours don't.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It's not enough that he can defend if we are going to struggle against 14 teams who sit deep. He's totally not needed in those games. We'd be better off with a poorer defender but one who could overlap and cross a ball.

It's all well and good saying it's the attackers fault we can't score goals but when they sit in deep and mark our forwards closely if leaves huge spaces for our fullbacks to exploit. And they aren't capable of it.

Defensively Shaw and AWB are fine, AWB being the stronger. But you can't rely on CM to create all the goals. Fullbacks have to contribute in the modern game. Ours don't.

His point is to get a full back who can actually defend. Defending for defender should be the standard or the fundamental of it. Ability to attack can be developed and improved for full backs, Bissaka can improve in the aspect and it will take more than a season to do so.

If the point is getting full back who will meet your standard to go overlap and cross the ball right now, well we already have one Dalot. Just need to stay fit to be given minutes. But don’t go moan next time talking about him being poor in defending.

Honestly I am more an old school one where I prefer to see one defensive full back and one attacking full back to create more balanced. May be upgrade the left back with an attacking one since Shaw can’t be guaranteed to stay fit.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

His point is to get a full back who can actually defend. Defending for defender should be the standard or the fundamental of it. Ability to attack can be developed and improved for full backs, Bissaka can improve in the aspect and it will take more than a season to do so.

If the point is getting full back who will meet your standard to go overlap and cross the ball right now, well we already have one Dalot. Just need to stay fit to be given minutes. But don’t go moan next time talking about him being poor in defending.

Honestly I am more an old school one where I prefer to see one defensive full back and one attacking full back to create more balanced. May be upgrade the left back with an attacking one since Shaw can’t be guaranteed to stay fit.

And that's the point im making. The main role for a fullback for a team hoping to be successful isn't to defend anymore. The game has evolved and fullbacks are key. They need to be able to attack. Such important positions especially against teams who sit deep and restrict the ability of our forwards like James and Rashford to get in behind.

We could perhaps get away with Shaw or Wan Bissaka in the team. We need one fullback who is class going forwards. It will add to our attacking game so much. If you can't see it then my god. Just look at all the top teams around at the moment. They are all better than us at this.

 

[reddevilchennai]

The issue with AWB not going forward is mainly due to poor coaching, lack of midfielders and RW who attack down the right.

It's not enough that he can defend if we are going to struggle against 14 teams who sit deep. He's totally not needed in those games. We'd be better off with a poorer defender but one who could overlap and cross a ball.

It's all well and good saying it's the attackers fault we can't score goals but when they sit in deep and mark our forwards closely if leaves huge spaces for our fullbacks to exploit. And they aren't capable of it.

Defensively Shaw and AWB are fine, AWB being the stronger. But you can't rely on CM to create all the goals. Fullbacks have to contribute in the modern game. Ours don't.

Then sign a proper RW, RCM. You can not blame RB alone for poor attacking performance.
James is not good enough in a system to break down teams defending deep. Fred & MCT do not have any creativity.

Imagine TAA in our team, he might have 2 or 3 assists but we would have conceeded 5 or 6 goals more. And then you people would be blaming TAA is shit in defending.

Team is not functioning as a unit due to lack of players and poor coaching and you guys are blaming a defender like AWB.

 

[Mcking]

Sign a defender to defend first of all, not to attack. Unless you think we need to carbon copy Liverpool's approach. I would rather have a solid defence than the gung ho focus down the wings.

The role of a full-back is to help in defence and also with the ball. One that can do the former but not the later should be considered LIMITED and not good enough IMO.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

And that's the point im making. The main role for a fullback for a team hoping to be successful isn't to defend anymore. The game has evolved and fullbacks are key. They need to be able to attack. Such important positions especially against teams who sit deep and restrict the ability of our forwards like James and Rashford to get in behind.

We could perhaps get away with Shaw or Wan Bissaka in the team. We need one fullback who is class going forwards. It will add to our attacking game so much. If you can't see it then my god. Just look at all the top teams around at the moment. They are all better than us at this.

The main role of full back is to defend. If the full back likes to attack means he is an attacking full back. That’s why you’ll see some team who relies on a full back who does his job which is defending and also an attacking full back. Some team also relies on 2 attacking full back.

Your point seems to be you want two attacking full back because full back’s main role is to attack not to defend. If it was the case play Daniel James as full back then.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The main role of full back is to defend. If the full back likes to attack means he is an attacking full back. That’s why you’ll see some team who relies on a full back who does his job which is defending and also an attacking full back. Some team also relies on 2 attacking full back.

Your point seems to be you want two attacking full back because full back’s main role is to attack not to defend. If it was the case play Daniel James as full back then.

Go and look who plays fullback for Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Liverpool, City, Juve etc and get back to me.

None of our fullbacks get in those teams even if they might be better defenders.

Why do you think that is?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Go and look who plays fullback for Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Liverpool, City, Juve etc and get back to me.

None of our fullbacks get in those teams even if they might be better defenders.

Why do you think that is?

You are ignoring my point here. My point is that full back will need to know how to defend first because that’s the main job of full back. Attacking threat can be imbued to someone like Bissaka by coaching & training and will take time.

Those attacking full backs in those teams you mentioned know how to defend as well not just attack. Go look at Marcos Alonso now, why do you think he’s not a regular in Chelsea despite of being very good in attacking? If you can answer this, get back to me.

 

[F-Red]

The role of a full-back is to help in defence and also with the ball. One that can do the former but not the later should be considered LIMITED and not good enough IMO.

Limited? I don't think we purchased AWB on the basis that we need him to go forward, much the same how we sold Lukaku because he couldn't defend.

 

[MadDogg]

You are ignoring my point here. My point is that full back will need to know how to defend first because that’s the main job of full back. Attacking threat can be imbued to someone like Bissaka by coaching & training and will take time.

Those attacking full backs in those teams you mentioned know how to defend as well not just attack. Go look at Marcos Alonso now, why do you think he’s not a regular in Chelsea despite of being very good in attacking? If you can answer this, get back to me.

Debatable these days. More and more the fullbacks that top teams are looking at (because they are the ones who provide the most to the team) are providing at least as much to the attack as they are to the defence. Of course they still have to be decent defensively, but average defence and great on the ball provides more than great defence and average on the ball.

It's not just about helping the attackers attack, it's also about helping control possession by providing extra options both to pass to and good passers in their own right. That's what Shaw should be good at in theory as he has got a good touch and is a good passer, but he just doesn't take up the right positions most of the time.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Debatable these days. More and more the fullbacks that top teams are looking at (because they are the ones who provide the most to the team) are providing at least as much to the attack as they are to the defence. Of course they still have to be decent defensively, but average defence and great on the ball provides more than great defence and average on the ball.

It's not just about helping the attackers attack, it's also about helping control possession by providing extra options both to pass to and good passers in their own right. That's what Shaw should be good at in theory as he has got a good touch and is a good passer, but he just doesn't take up the right positions most of the time.

Exactly this. Eventually everyone will realise we've signed the wrong player. He will be great for top 6 clashes and against the rest he will be a waste of time. We need more creativity in the side and the modern fullback plays a big part in this. Look at what Pep n Klopp do with theirs.

 

[VeevaVee]

Sign a defender to defend first of all, not to attack. Unless you think we need to carbon copy Liverpool's approach. I would rather have a solid defence than the gung ho focus down the wings.

Would you really? Fergie's mantra was always to score more than the opposition and I'm down with that personally, and we've had overlapping wingplay since as long as I remember.

I'm also not a fan of the whole build from the back thing, because it means not being very good at scoring til the end of the rebuild, when it surely should be the opposite to give us a half decent chance. Playing more defensively in my opinion invites pressure on to it so you actually end up looking worse defensively, unless you're an all out defensive lower half team.
It also means you have play a different system right up until you finally sort the whole team out, whereas building from the front means they can get used to it from the off.

Most of this post wasn't in reply to anything you've said by the way F-Red, it just kind of followed on from the first bit.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Debatable these days. More and more the fullbacks that top teams are looking at (because they are the ones who provide the most to the team) are providing at least as much to the attack as they are to the defence. Of course they still have to be decent defensively, but average defence and great on the ball provides more than great defence and average on the ball.

It's not just about helping the attackers attack, it's also about helping control possession by providing extra options both to pass to and good passers in their own right. That's what Shaw should be good at in theory as he has got a good touch and is a good passer, but he just doesn't take up the right positions most of the time.

It's debatable because depends on how your team play. Majority team play with two attacking full back nowdays, some team play with one attacking and one defensive. France had two defensive full back when they won the last World Cup.

It's difficult to find a lot of full back who can attack & defend or even great with their passing available out there. Another way is to train them, full back who knows how to defend can still be trained to be good in attack or be a good passer.

 

[Mcking]

Limited? I don't think we purchased AWB on the basis that we need him to go forward, much the same how we sold Lukaku because he couldn't defend.

 

[Mcking]

Limited? I don't think we purchased AWB on the basis that we need him to go forward, much the same how we sold Lukaku because he couldn't defend.

Yes, Wan-bissaka is limited. We payed for a footballer, not a tackler. He is a good defender, but offer nothing and is more a detriment with the ball. That renders him completely useless in about 55% percent of our games on average. Football isn't all about defending, you've got to score too.

 

[Hughie77]

He needs to improve his forward game, that may well come, only 1st season, practice on this in training etc, there's a right back at Norwich who's great going forward, Max Aaron I think his name is, I wouldn't mind him as another right back, could play the iether one, in horses for courses games.

 

[Still ill]

Would you really? Fergie's mantra was always to score more than the opposition and I'm down with that personally, and we've had overlapping wingplay since as long as I remember.

I'm also not a fan of the whole build from the back thing, because it means not being very good at scoring til the end of the rebuild, when it surely should be the opposite to give us a half decent chance. Playing more defensively in my opinion invites pressure on to it so you actually end up looking worse defensively, unless you're an all out defensive lower half team.
It also means you have play a different system right up until you finally sort the whole team out, whereas building from the front means they can get used to it from the off.

Most of this post wasn't in reply to anything you've said by the way F-Red, it just kind of followed on from the first bit.

That's nonsense. People throw that out like he was Kevin Keegan. He based all his great sides on solid defenses. And not just great centre back partnerships. Of course he liked his full backs to contribute but are you telling me that Gary Neville's silky skills put AWB in the shade? That Denis Irwin could turn defenders inside out? They were effective attackers because they were in an effective team. AWB will produce more going forward when we get our collective shit together.

 

[Kurton]

Exactly this. Eventually everyone will realise we've signed the wrong player. He will be great for top 6 clashes and against the rest he will be a waste of time. We need more creativity in the side and the modern fullback plays a big part in this. Look at what Pep n Klopp do with theirs.

Exactly this, everyone's praising him because of his flashy tackles, but that is not needed against the majority of the teams (if the team is coached to defend collectively). Will be interesting to see when this narrative changes as most seem to be saying the same thing for Shaw.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm a bit tired of these "modern game" nonsense, it's not a thing nothing done today is new, what people are thinking about are theoretical trends that don't actually work for most teams and are limited to very specific players in very specific systems. In sport everything is about balance, imbalance and leverage, there are many ways to skin a cat. For example we do not need to have two attacking fullbacks in order to have width or be dangerous wide, the beauty of someone like AWB is that if we simply help him improve defensively, which is already his strength, then we can afford to have a very attacking right side attacker and we can also afford to have a very attacking left side fullback, the formation would be asymmetric but it has never been an issue in football.
France and Barcelona(Abidal-Dani Alves) are an example of that, Pavard won the righback role because Mbappé can't defend but since Mbappé moves around and very often run inside channels, Pavard find himself absolutely alone on the right wing and that's a very important thing because almost all football players can pass and cross a ball what differentiate elite players from the rest is their ability to be accurate under pressure and with speed, if you give space and time to a player he will be a big enough threat, which in the case of Pavard-Mbappé means that you always have to chose between giving Pavard time and space or following Mbappé, generally teams will do the later but as Pavard showed it's not a good idea in a low scoring game like Football, he will find himself in a very good position once or a twice a game.

In theory anyone can provide width outside of your CBs and one of your CM/DM. If you use a flat midfield three the wider CMs could run the channels inside or outside of the opposing fullbacks with your wide forward/wingers staying wide or running inside. It all depends on your players and their characteristics. There are so many ways to do things that I find it a little bit disheartening to see football fans and coaches consistently limiting their options with trends that have no relevance to the context they are observing.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

He’s a good player & an upgrade on what we had. Is he going to take us to the next level? Probably not. Is he worth 50m? Probably not.

But for right now he’s good for us, (just like Lukaku was- we were never going to win the league with him but he had us good for top 4- now look at us once we sell & don’t replace players properly)

 

[Withnail]

I think it's bizarre how poor he is going forward, given he was a winger a couple of years ago.

How did he even get into a PL club before they realised he was so good defensively?

He may be able to develop that part of his game but he wasn't setting the world alight in the U20s as a winger by all accounts.

I do also think it wouldn't be that much of an issue if we had a proper right winger in front of him.

 

[VeevaVee]

That's nonsense. People throw that out like he was Kevin Keegan. He based all his great sides on solid defenses. And not just great centre back partnerships. Of course he liked his full backs to contribute but are you telling me that Gary Neville's silky skills put AWB in the shade? That Denis Irwin could turn defenders inside out? They were effective attackers because they were in an effective team. AWB will produce more going forward when we get our collective shit together.

No, I never said that. They did contribute though. Maybe he will, and as a fan of him I hope he does, but from what we've seen he'll have to improve his delivery.

 

[Volumiza]

He's young. One of the best RB's I've seen in a long time. His tackling is amazing (yes I know he conceded a penalty but even so ...). His attacking play could get better but it's not the worst I've seen from a RB and he has already spoiled so many attacks it's untrue.

He is as good at attacking as we can expect Rashford to be at defending. I genuinely scratch my head at some of the views on here. The guy is genuinely good at defending, something that is really important for the team and is a MAHOOOSIVE improvement over Young / Darmian and Dalot that I really struggle seeing some of the posts about him.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

He's young. One of the best RB's I've seen in a long time. His tackling is amazing (yes I know he conceded a penalty but even so ...). His attacking play could get better but it's not the worst I've seen from a RB and he has already spoiled so many attacks it's untrue.

He is as good at attacking as we can expect Rashford to be at defending. I genuinely scratch my head at some of the views on here. The guy is genuinely good at defending, something that is really important for the team and is a MAHOOOSIVE improvement over Young / Darmian and Dalot that I really struggle seeing some of the posts about him.

Again totally missing the point. Nobody is saying he can't defend. But when the ball comes his feet my eyes want to bleed.

I'm just ahead of the curve along with some others on here. Eventually everyone else will catch up.

He's a better tackler than Trent and Walker for me but he's third choice for England at best. There's a reason for that. Nobody wants to admit it because he's a new signing. Tremendous defender but an incredibly limited footballer. We won't get close to title with players who can't play football at fullback. Such a vital position.

 

[Volumiza]

But when the ball comes his feet my eyes want to bleed.

Bit dramatic.

I'm just ahead of the curve along with some others on here. Eventually everyone else will catch up.

He's a better tackler than Trent and Walker for me but he's third choice for England at best. There's a reason for that. Nobody wants to admit it because he's a new signing. Tremendous defender but an incredibly limited footballer. We won't get close to title with players who can't play football at fullback. Such a vital position.

He's only 22 and already one of the very best at an important aspect of his game. Imagine what he can learn over the next few years. Seriously, this guy could be great for us.

Much bigger priorities for us. At this point, I'm really glad we have him.

 

[El Jefe]

My unpopular opinion is that he's actually excellent on the ball and in passing moves. I've been so impressed on numerous occasions this season where he's kept the ball in tight spaces on the touchline either with a nice dribble or incisive pass into midfield. If we were a good passing team it would show a lot more.

What he's actually mediocre at is his crossing and running into space to deliver balls but this can be fixed with time and better coaching. Someone like Poch who's a genius at working with full backs would turn AWB into a monster because defensively he's as good as you can be for his age. Look at what Poch did with Rose, Walker, Trippier and Davies or what Klopp did with TAA, Robertson or even Milner when he was LB that one season. If we get a top class coach AWB is going to be a monster.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

According to PL website he's made 4 big chances in all the PL games he's ever played in. That's for us and Palace combined.

4 big chances is tragic. Trent and Robertson make 2-3 BIG chances every weekend for the dippers.

He's not good enough on the ball. Rather see Williams play Vs Newcastle as all they will do is sit back and defend.

 

[LVGSdive]

According to PL website he's made 4 big chances in all the PL games he's ever played in. That's for us and Palace combined.

4 big chances is tragic. Trent and Robertson make 2-3 BIG chances every weekend for the dippers.

He's not good enough on the ball. Rather see Williams play Vs Newcastle as all they will do is sit back and defend.

Firstly, TAA and Robertson are the 2 best-attacking fullbacks in the world going forward.

Secondly, they have a different role in the system they play in. They are more like wingers than fullbacks with the way Klopp sets them up.

Thirdly, AWB is vital in this game, especially for defending Newcastle's counter-attack. Saint-Maximin is lightning quick on the counter-attack and AWB is the best 1 on 1 defender in the league.

Fourthly, it's up to the coaching staff to improve AWB's attacking play or find a way to maximise his strengths and minimise his weaknesses. For example, people have suggested playing him in a back 3 which will put less emphasis on his attacking play and play to his excellent defensive strengths.

AWB is so good defensively that it has to be used for the team's best advantage. That's for Ole and the coaching staff to work out how that both suits him and functions advantageously for the team.

 

[roonster09]

According to PL website he's made 4 big chances in all the PL games he's ever played in. That's for us and Palace combined.

4 big chances is tragic. Trent and Robertson make 2-3 BIG chances every weekend for the dippers.

He's not good enough on the ball. Rather see Williams play Vs Newcastle as all they will do is sit back and defend.

They don't create 2-3 big chance every weekend,

If we go by big chances, Walker has played for nearly 8-10 seasons and he has created 25 big chances in his PL career, same with Azpi and he has created 27 big chances. These are PL winning FBs too.

Alonso is one of the best wing backs and he has created 15 big chances and this is his 4th season.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I got this same reaction from fans on here when I said Lindelof wasn't good enough despite him hitting some form back then.

If you are happy with AWB then fine. I'm not. I want a better footballer in the team not just a good defender. However in saying that the way we are heading (down) AWB probably is the better shout.

Won't be good enough to bring us back to the top. Just watch him against Newcastle. He looks lost on the ball.

 

[roonster09]

I got this same reaction from fans on here when I said Lindelof wasn't good enough despite him hitting some form back then.

If you are happy with AWB then fine. I'm not. I want a better footballer in the team not just a good defender. However in saying that the way we are heading (down) AWB probably is the better shout.

Won't be good enough to bring us back to the top. Just watch him against Newcastle. He looks lost on the ball.

At least use proper stats then instead of assuming whatever you want to.

Single player won't bring us back to the top, we need 11 good players in the starting 11 and good depth, along with great manager to bring us back to the top. Replacing AWB with TAA achieves feck all. He creates few more goals but won't be defensively good enough to stop the goals with how we are set up.

 

[Baneofthegame]

They don't create 2-3 big chance every weekend,

If we go by big chances, Walker has played for nearly 8-10 seasons and he has created 25 big chances in his PL career, same with Azpi and he has created 27 big chances. These are PL winning FBs too.

Alonso is one of the best wing backs and he has created 15 big chances and this is his 4th season.

This.

If we actually had a right sided attacker it wouldn’t be as magnified as it was at the moment.

Also, while he may lack the big chances created here, if there was a big chances saved he would lead the league at full back as he has to cover the lack of pace from Mag/Lin and work for our midfield as well at times.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Funny how our last two right backs got slaughtered on here for not having a good final ball and both were better at it than AWB.

Why have the goalposts moved now? Eventually everyone will be saying same thing once the new player novelty has worn off. He's just not a very good footballer.

 

[Withnail]

Funny how our last two right backs got slaughtered on here for not having a good final ball and both were better at it than AWB.

Why have the goalposts moved now? Eventually everyone will be saying same thing once the new player novelty has worn off. He's just not a very good footballer.

He's bleedin useless. Get rid of him in January I say

 

[F-Red]

Would you really? Fergie's mantra was always to score more than the opposition and I'm down with that personally, and we've had overlapping wingplay since as long as I remember.

I'm with that mantra, i just think some people here seem to think that AWB has been signed as the silver bullet for our forward play. Scoring more than the opposition needs more focus on our front end, and more goals from midfield.

I'm also not a fan of the whole build from the back thing, because it means not being very good at scoring til the end of the rebuild, when it surely should be the opposite to give us a half decent chance. Playing more defensively in my opinion invites pressure on to it so you actually end up looking worse defensively, unless you're an all out defensive lower half team.
It also means you have play a different system right up until you finally sort the whole team out, whereas building from the front means they can get used to it from the off.

Most of this post wasn't in reply to anything you've said by the way F-Red, it just kind of followed on from the first bit.

I'm with you, we've always been a counter attacking side and I don't see why we should change to suit 'modern football' because two sides have a system that works with those players. Our players clearly don't suit that system and i don't see why we should try to play that system that quite clearly doesn't work for us - play to our strengths. Our biggest challenge currently is how we unlock teams who are happy with us having the ball.

 

[SplitzMagic]

I still think he would be better as a ball winning midfielder. His defending is A+ so just need to polish up his passing and dribbling.

He doesn't attack and I don't think he ever will so we are stuck with a 50m non attacking rb when all full backs should be contributing in attack at least. His crossing is atrocious.

I know many will say I'm stupid for suggesting it but I literally think that would be his best position. Cleaning things up a bit like kante.

 

[passing-wind]

Every poster on this page, name one player since Ole has come in who has drastically improved their attacking game inside out ?

If Solskjaer is a useless coach, how is AWB supposed to have his attacking weaknesses nurtured ? We are a team that's plays with no identity, we have no structure to our attack, we've got no pattern of play, we have a DEFENSIVE philosophy. Solskjaer is not the manager to improve AWB, we need a more attacking minded manager (possession based) who can show AWB where to navigate when making runs, how to give and receive, create space down the flanks, where to whip the ball in etc.

People undermining the fundamentals of coaching, the reason why Liverpool, City, Leicester and to some extent Chelsea are able to play with flair and spontaneous movement is due to what's being done in training. It's not different to boxing, we are watching a United team week in week out with no attacking plan because that's clearly what's being exemplified in training.

 

[el3mel]

Funny how our last two right backs got slaughtered on here for not having a good final ball and both were better at it than AWB.

Why have the goalposts moved now? Eventually everyone will be saying same thing once the new player novelty has worn off. He's just not a very good footballer.

I fully expect people to get tired of AWB's complete lack of offensive side comes next season. Just being good defensively isn't going to be good enough for him long term, especially for 50m.

Honestly I said previously it won't be a surprise for me if our last entire summer market is viewed as totally crap one 2-3 years from now on.

 

[oreon]

This is beyond dumb. He's is 21. Not many 21 year old players are complete. Most are far from the finished article. What you need to see from young players is a year to year improvement. Players need time to develop. In the modern era fans just expect these players to be ready now but it doesn't work that way. What he needs to show is a year to year improvement. Not every 21 year old is Mbappe most are AWB where they have strengths and weakness that need to be improved.

 

[Adnan]