Unpopular (AKA fickle) opinion time on AWB.....

Acole9 said:
How's that embarrassing? He's right for a change, he always throws himself into challenges. Good defenders stay on their feet like Ferdinand.
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Or times them perfectly. Depends on your mindset really .

We know what Souness thinks of the club
 
Nothing again on an offensive front. If his defensive display is poor like today, then it’s just not going to be good enough.
 
I'd be tempted to put Williams in against Newcastle. They aren't going to come to OT and attack us. AWB is a waste of space in such games.
 
Certainly this forum wasn't without its prior criticisms of Wan-Bissaka before he joined United. The argument followed that Wan-Bissaka looked offensively and technically deficient due to the limiting factor of playing for Crystal Palace in a highly defensive system. It was thought, by some, that Wan-Bissaka would look much better in a team that (a) set up up to provide him ample opportunity to attack, and, (b) was surrounded by overall better team mates.

What we're left with is precisely what most of RedCafe already knew. He was defensively a giant, but offensively ineffective.The scouting team determined that the pros far outweighed the cons and that offensive productivity could be improved, however, it's easier said than done. Even in a highly functioning side, Wan-Bissaka would have many of the same issues going forward; namely, he cannot cross the ball with any general threat, nor is particularly adept at feeding balls into feet for strikers calling for it. For that reason, James has to play on the right and be the one to keep width, since AWB cannot overlap/underlap with any intuition, and any full-back wide play is forced to come from the left.
 
Think Souness for once was credible with his comments that he goes to ground too much. The best defenders in history never needed to slide in so much. He’s got great tackling quality however and will improve but his forward play is really limiting us at the moment he needs to work so hard on that element of his game like G Nev once did
 
AWB is a mid table team player and that is where we're at. So is Maguire. Makes sense why were at where were at.
 
red thru&thru said:
AWB is a mid table team player and that is where we're at. So is Maguire. Makes sense why were at where were at.
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Unfortunately as we are seeing with both AWB, Maguire and a number of our other players is the distinctly average level of coaching at the club. I am not only talking about tactics (or the lack of them ), you hope when you go to one of the biggest clubs in the world that you would have coaches that would help improve you as a player. I haven't seen that at Utd. Where is the coaching to help AWB improve as a player offensively. I'm not so bothered about the penalty today as these things happen, I am also not listening to Souness as he loves at every opportunity to put the boot in regarding Utd. AWB has played over 20 games for Utd I'm sure this is his first penalty conceded(correct me if I'm wrong) it's not like he has been conceding penalties every other game ???

You hope we would have coaches like at Wolves as an example. A player like Adama Traore used to be just a very fast winger with no end product in the final third. Nuno and his coaching team has transformed him into one of the most dangerous player in the PL at the moment. It seems that our rookie coaches haven't the expertise to improve players as I am hard pressed to think of a player who you can see has been coached to improve aspects of his game at Utd.
 
RedWat said:
Unfortunately as we are seeing with both AWB, Maguire and a number of our other players is the distinctly average level of coaching at the club. I am not only talking about tactics (or the lack of them ), you hope when you go to one of the biggest clubs in the world that you would have coaches that would help improve you as a player. I haven't seen that at Utd. Where is the coaching to help AWB improve as a player offensively. I'm not so bothered about the penalty today as these things happen, I am also not listening to Souness as he loves at every opportunity to put the boot in regarding Utd. AWB has played over 20 games for Utd I'm sure this is his first penalty conceded(correct me if I'm wrong) it's not like he has been conceding penalties every other game ???

You hope we would have coaches like at Wolves as an example. A player like Adama Traore used to be just a very fast winger with no end product in the final third. Nuno and his coaching team has transformed him into one of the most dangerous player in the PL at the moment. It seems that our rookie coaches haven't the expertise to improve players as I am hard pressed to think of a player who you can see has been coached to improve aspects of his game at Utd.
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Yes, maybe you're correct. It's just that I've seen AWB attack well in any game. But you're correct too. We haven't a coaching set up to improve our players.
 
Some pre-season and early league games he looked good enough to contribute but the last 5-6 games he's been quite awful going forward sadly.
 
RedWat said:
Unfortunately as we are seeing with both AWB, Maguire and a number of our other players is the distinctly average level of coaching at the club. I am not only talking about tactics (or the lack of them ), you hope when you go to one of the biggest clubs in the world that you would have coaches that would help improve you as a player. I haven't seen that at Utd. Where is the coaching to help AWB improve as a player offensively. I'm not so bothered about the penalty today as these things happen, I am also not listening to Souness as he loves at every opportunity to put the boot in regarding Utd. AWB has played over 20 games for Utd I'm sure this is his first penalty conceded(correct me if I'm wrong) it's not like he has been conceding penalties every other game ???

You hope we would have coaches like at Wolves as an example. A player like Adama Traore used to be just a very fast winger with no end product in the final third. Nuno and his coaching team has transformed him into one of the most dangerous player in the PL at the moment. It seems that our rookie coaches haven't the expertise to improve players as I am hard pressed to think of a player who you can see has been coached to improve aspects of his game at Utd.
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Yep. Spot on. All three of our summer signings are now performing worse than they did in their initial weeks at the club which is damning on the coaching staff at the club.
 
He made a mistake, it happens.

RB was a huge problem for us last season and previously, AWB was the most defensively sound one on the market. Ole clearly wanted to prioritise the defensive but I think we all thought AWB's attacking might improve over time. What some didn't bank on was the poor standard of attacking coaching at this football club.
 
We bought the wrong defender from Leicester. We should’ve bought Ricardo Periera and looked elsewhere for a CB because Maguire ain’t it. I’ve seen enough. It’s 2019. We don’t need a defense only specialist at RB. We need an attacking player; especially in our side that is dying out for creative options. We blundered the transfers again. 130mm spent on these two defenders, and we haven’t had a clean sheet in 13 consecutive games. That’s the worst streak since 1971.
 
His mistake isn't worth talking about. He is an excellent tackler but this will happen sometimes, as he is also a lunger. We need to accept the occasional mistake like today if we're to enjoy all the good ones.

Hi attacking output however, is very disappointing.
 
If we get a manager that wants to play attacking football then we need to uppgrade him probably. Although he is a good midtable defender so we are good for now.
 
VeevaVee said:
Hi attacking output however, is very disappointing.
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Would SAF ever have bought a non-attacking fullback on world-record fee?? Maybe Heinze (on the cheap), but then SAF ditched him after getting Evra.
 
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simplyared said:
Compare him to Liverpools Trent Arnold. The gap's massive!
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Yeah AWB is miles better as a defender.

But of course his attacking quality is a concern. At a big club, we can't expect nothing going forward from our right back. He has to improve his link up play and delivery. It's going to be difficult though. Has to be said that it's made harder playing in a dysfunctional and poorly coached football team.
 
Souness said the fact that he goes to ground so often is a sign that he's not reading the game well enough, and that his tackles are last ditch. I disagree, more often than not when he wins the ball with a lunging tackle he's not been caught out or anything, he's winning the ball when an attacker is taking him on 1v1.

But it is high risk to be trying to win the ball like that in the box. Attackers that know he'll always try to win the ball might see it as something to exploit in trying to win a penalty.
 
He needs an attacking coach to really work extensively on his play when he's got the ball, he's young enough that it can be improved. Probably having someone more consistent ahead of him would help, but James is equally young and needs a lot more time himself.
 
Personally I don't think RB is an issue for now. We have far bigger concern and I believe Ethan Laird will be good enough to challenge and displace him in the future. Law of probability caught up and he was due a mistimed tackle that would cost. He does dive in too much, I could understand if he was recovering from the attacking position but he generally goes diving when he has covered the attacker well. He looks more like a RCB in 3 man pairing than modern Full back than again his reading and positioning might come into question.
 
AWB is not an issue at the moment. Put TAA under this inept management and he will look just as clueless.

It's a question of time he and Maguire will be deemed 'not good enough'.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Yeah AWB is miles better as a defender.

But of course his attacking quality is a concern. At a big club, we can't expect nothing going forward from our right back. He has to improve his link up play and delivery. It's going to be difficult though. Has to be said that it's made harder playing in a dysfunctional and poorly coached football team.
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He certainly isn't his style of play makes him seem better than he actually is defensively, he needs to work on his defensive positioning as well we again failed in the Market this summer .Our recruitment under Ole Is no better than his predecessors.
 
Enigma_87 said:
AWB is not an issue at the moment. Put TAA under this inept management and he will look just as clueless.

It's a question of time he and Maguire will be deemed 'not good enough'.
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Currently they aren't by any means who knows whether next manager would fancy them or not either.
 
gajender said:
He certainly isn't his style of play makes him seem better than he actually is defensively, he needs to work on his defensive positioning as well we again failed in the Market this summer .Our recruitment under Ole Is no better than his predecessors.
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Nah, he's a smashing defender. All this 'you don't drive in' is a tad overrated. It doesn't matter how you stop your opponent as long as you do. Vidic went to ground more than many defenders but he got the ball. A fullback doesn't need have exceptional positional sense either. Besides, you will get caught out despite having positional sense merely due to the nature of the role (having to push up).
 
Wolvereen said:
We bought the wrong defender from Leicester. We should’ve bought Ricardo Periera and looked elsewhere for a CB because Maguire ain’t it. I’ve seen enough. It’s 2019. We don’t need a defense only specialist at RB. We need an attacking player; especially in our side that is dying out for creative options. We blundered the transfers again. 130mm spent on these two defenders, and we haven’t had a clean sheet in 13 consecutive games. That’s the worst streak since 1971.
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Common mistake people make. Pereiera wouldn't be doing any better. Very simple way to look at it. How do you think Leicester would look/be playing of Ole was their coach?

Point is their players look good because they are coached up, in a better system with a better understanding of what they are doing.
 
gajender said:
Currently they aren't by any means who knows whether next manager would fancy them or not either.
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Employ an attacking manager next and that masterstroke of buying a defensive fullback for 50m pounds wouldn't be such a master stroke. Especially since everyone knew what AWB strengths and weaknesses were even before we bought him.
 
The thing is if we are spending 50 million on a right back you would think that a 50 million RB signing would be better than what Liverpool and City currently have and would walk into their teams.

He's no where near good enough to start for City and Liverpool.

It's a worrying sign that United still haven't learned in the transfer market.
 
Jericho said:
Souness said the fact that he goes to ground so often is a sign that he's not reading the game well enough, and that his tackles are last ditch. I disagree, more often than not when he wins the ball with a lunging tackle he's not been caught out or anything, he's winning the ball when an attacker is taking him on 1v1.

But it is high risk to be trying to win the ball like that in the box. Attackers that know he'll always try to win the ball might see it as something to exploit in trying to win a penalty.
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Souness is the master of lazy punditry, he keeps quiet when AWB had sterling in his back pocket in his MOTM performance against City, or all the other occasions he goes to ground but makes the tackle near 100% of the time, but wait until he doesn’t do it right on one occasion like yesterday and he comes out all guns blazing saying his tackles are last ditch and he will not make a great player if he keeps on doing it.
 
Some people are too quick to judge.

From what I've seen of AWB offensively, he's skillful and relatively confident taking the ball forward into space. What he doesn't quite have yet is the mindset to be decisive and take risks when in the final third, which isn't something that changes overnight. A new signing takes time to settle in and find their feet. Once they're comfortable and confident, that's when you tend to see their game level up. This can take a while for young players at a new club in a top league.
 
LJJT said:
Think Souness for once was credible with his comments that he goes to ground too much. The best defenders in history never needed to slide in so much. He’s got great tackling quality however and will improve but his forward play is really limiting us at the moment he needs to work so hard on that element of his game like G Nev once did
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I tend to agree with that opinion on most ocassions. Most defenders use slide tackling as a last ditch effort to stop an attack. That's not the case with AWB (not all the time anyways). Usually what we see is him defending his man well and then leading him into a position where he then makes the slide tackle. It's not him out of position, but rather him getting his attacker in a position for a tackle. Not sure if I'm explaining that right though. With that being said, today was unacceptable. That was him well out of position and going in for a slide tackle that wasn't on. I hope it was just a blip and we won't see anything like that again because other than today, he has been one of our best players this year. As for his attacking (or lack there of), he is more like a classic FB than a modern FB. This is a big part of why I would like to see us play a classic 4-4-2 against the bottom teams. If our FB's aren't going to offer anything in attack, then they might as well offer stability in the back while we go light in midfield and heavy in attack...
 
50m for a full back whose not good at the ball and can't cross a ball. He's basically a CB stuck as RB.
 
We do have Dalot and Jose said that he is the best young RB in Europe so I would not give up on him yet.
If we get teams who are going to park the bus then once Dalot is up to speed we should play him: I do not think it is that big a deal if we bench AWB in these games as Pep bought the guy from Juve for more money and he has only been bought as back up to Walker.
 
He's not a massive cause for concern at present due to the how poor our squad is but he definitely needs to improve going forward somewhat.

I don't think he will ever be a threat going forward in a major way but at the time he's a massive detriment when he receives the ball in attacking positions. He needs to improve some basics in his game, his forward passes can be very sloppy, sort of into feet but to the side of the receiver or behind him when they are on the run. He controls the ball moving away from his body and to the touchline which then sets him up in a bad position to attack. There's a lot that can be coached that can get him upto a decent level but he's never going to be an Evra or TAA offensively.
 
Apart from penalty incident, he was good. He made many tackles and blocks, few of them was to save one v one with goal keeper. Looks like few are waiting for him to make a mistake.
 
Bondi77 said:
We do have Dalot and Jose said that he is the best young RB in Europe so I would not give up on him yet.
If we get teams who are going to park the bus then once Dalot is up to speed we should play him: I do not think it is that big a deal if we bench AWB in these games as Pep bought the guy from Juve for more money and he has only been bought as back up to Walker.
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I actually think Ethan Laird will turn out twice the player of Dalot... time will tell
 
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