Unpopular (AKA fickle) opinion time on AWB.....

gajender said:
Here is an Idea might not be popular but how about we build a team which actually goes toe to toe with other big teams and rather than always making plans how to negate them by playing limited players ,either AWB can improve to be part of that team or we simply replace him with player who is more suited to play front foot football.
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I agree with this. I hate how we are reactionary to our opposition.
 
He turned 23 last November. He’s had spells of poor form this season but also some excellent performances, against top opponents. Including a solid display in a rare clean sheet against Manchester City. Just one week ago. It’s crazy how keen some of you are to permanently write him off.

When he was the same age that AWB is now, Andy Robertson was being kept out of the Liverpool team by Alberto fecking Morena.
 
He's been great in general this season. He's improved on the ball but it's not good enough for games we control or need to get control of. It would really help if we had Laird in the squad next season to play in games where we can be more aggressive.

There is nothing wrong with rotating our RB.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He turned 23 last November. He’s had spells of poor form this season but also some excellent performances, against top opponents. Including a solid display in a rare clean sheet against Manchester City. Just one week ago. It’s crazy how keen some of you are to permanently write him off.

When he was the same age that AWB is now, Andy Robertson was being kept out of the Liverpool team by Alberto fecking Morena.
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He's also played an absolutely ridiculous amount of minutes this season - Ole should have given run outs to Axel or Williams there a few times just to give him a rest
 
gajender said:
Here is an Idea might not be popular but how about we build a team which actually goes toe to toe with other big teams and rather than always making plans how to negate them by playing limited players ,either AWB can improve to be part of that team or we simply replace him with player who is more suited to play front foot football.
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And that is what will happen. You want to compete toe to toe with City for the league? We will need 4 topclass fullbacks competing for 2 spots.

What is Ole doing? A fullback with even a single defensive ability is rare to find. People were crying about Lamptey and the guy is looking average now. It's why Ole has 2 defensively capable in AWB and Shaw in the squad. What will we do after? We will add two pure attacking fullbacks to compete for 2 spots.

It leaves us 2 defensively capable defenders competing with two attacking capable players and hopefully it brings the best out of all 4. It leaves our squad under a depth that allows us to play the game depending on who we play with. For example would this forum choose Wan Bissaka vs City? I think they would. Would they choose him against crystal palace or west ham - not likely as we need an attacking RB.

This is what Ole is doing with the whole squad. Why did he go for Ighalo or Cavani or try for Haaland straightaway when we had Martial? Because they play the game in two ways - one likes to drop deep and one is more predatory in the box. Why were we linked to Grealish? Because he plays the game different to Rashford or Martial and is more creative. Why is Amad bought with Pellestri? One is a touchline presence able to keep his width on the RW whilst the other can cut in on their left foot. The same with the link to Sancho.

Ole wants a squad of different style of players so he can pick them according to what's needed. You see this why we can play defensively with 2 box to box midfielders in Mctomminay and Fred - yet we can play more creative with Matic covering Pogba.

There is differences in the players we have and what they do and how they do it.

That's why I value Wan Bissaka because I value what option he gives us in the squad. People cant see that we went for Trippier just this transfer window the same way we went for Telles and are crying about us not having an attacking RWB whilst saying Wan Bissaka is not good enough. He is good enough because I cant think of a young better defensive RB than him available except the old school azpilicueta even if its heavily reliant on his slide tackle.

It's not Wan Bissaka's fault that we dont have an attacking option competing with him, giving us an option if he isnt improving - whilst likewise his competition will need compete to be better defensively than Wan Bissaka.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I mean, he is clearly better going forward this season to last. But you're welcome anyway.
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I saw his passing be good the game before west ham. Very quick passing able to pick players out as he was being pressed.

Had a bad game and suddenly the guy will never progress.

Some fans just need to focus on picking apart the players that are here rather than picking on the players we need in the squad because our squad has many gaps in it.
 
Bebestation said:
I saw his passing be good the game before west ham. Very quick passing able to pick players out as he was being pressed.

Had a bad game and suddenly the guy will never progress.

Some fans just need to focus on picking apart the players that are here rather than picking on the players we need in the squad because our squad has many gaps in it.
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It's insane the criticism our players get. Wan-Bissaka has clearly being working on this side of his game and has improved. Will he ever be an Alexander-Arnold? No, but that doesn't mean he can't be a very good full-back. His one-on-one defending is the best in the league, so he has a great base to continue and develop from.
 
His offensive limitations becomes more apparent when we don't have an established right winger.

I think he's not terrible. He has show glimpses of good ball control and have put some decent crosses in when he's up for it. Feels like he thinks he's worse than he actually is and the lack of confidence shows.
I reckon he can develop further offensively. He will probably never be a marauding offensive full back but he can get to a level where he can contribute. Gary Neville didn't become a good crosser of the ball until later in his career.

Right back is the least of our problems now
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He turned 23 last November. He’s had spells of poor form this season but also some excellent performances, against top opponents. Including a solid display in a rare clean sheet against Manchester City. Just one week ago. It’s crazy how keen some of you are to permanently write him off.

When he was the same age that AWB is now, Andy Robertson was being kept out of the Liverpool team by Alberto fecking Morena.
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The context being that he'd only just joined Liverpool from Hull in July 2017. He played in two of the first five games; Moreno only featured in 10 of the first 12 games largely because Robertson was being integrated into the squad at the time. It wasn't due to poor performance that Robertson didn't start at LB right away.
 
Ever since Greenwood stopped onion bagging every other game our right side has become completely impotent. There have been several occasions this season in which teams give it as much time and space as the dimensions of the pitch allow. It's actually quite mad to see. Is Sancho really going to come in and lock it down in tandem with AWB (assuming we get him, obviously)? I'm eager to see if the latter is able to effectively combine with a mainstay on that wing. It's a lot easier to make excuses for him when we don't have a proper right-winger in the team. Hopefully, that ends this summer.

It's surely not surprising that people are debating the merits of him, though. Every single player/manager/coach goes through the wringer on here, a player we signed for £50m is no different and is more prone to discussion because of the price tag (see Fred). AWB just is an unorthodox player that often looks uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. It's hard to look past that sometimes, especially in games where the onus is on United to attack and cause damage to the opposition. Next season will be massive in determining whether or not he's able to function as part of a more well-balanced outfit that looks to attack with more frequency, or whether he stands out as a very expensive, one-dimensional slide tackling specialist.
 
Before Pep came along, players used to be judged by their attributes in their primary position. Is he good at defending the right side of the defence, yes he is. Is he good at going forward, not so much but United's right offensive right side has been a weak link for a while now. A better right winger will leave him with much less to do. Instead of having to beat a man like a winger he will have space to overlap and do a low cross across the box for Martial to hit into the keepers thighs.
 
Bebestation said:
A player that keeps world class players in his pocket. Struggles a bit under worse players. Looking forward for his time here whilst people moan about him against the low block teams but say nothing against the teams that attack us.
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The top teams in the world have more of the ball and expected ti attack so atm he suits more a mid/lower team who want to sit back and make last ditch tackles. I remember when Heinze got replaced by Evra, people thought Fergie was a mad lad
 
Bebestation said:
I saw his passing be good the game before west ham. Very quick passing able to pick players out as he was being pressed.

Had a bad game and suddenly the guy will never progress.

Some fans just need to focus on picking apart the players that are here rather than picking on the players we need in the squad because our squad has many gaps in it.
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Agree, got hammered for suggesting he was progressing earlier in the season. He actually rarely loses the ball, can pass quickly and link in tight areas and is slowly improving his output going forward. He also has a change of pace to go past players and get a cross in. He has the tools to improve from here imo.

Not to mention he's usually incredible one on one defensively. He's never going to be an elite attacking fullback but people told me Telles was going to provide that and he's busy warming the bench.
 
He ends up taking some weird positions when playing behind Daniel James, because James is usually the one hugging the touch line. AWB then has to take up almost the position of a midfielder, albeit slightly wider. I don't think that helps him - it seems more natural for him to play behind Greenwood.

He was obviously poor on the ball yesterday, and I was yelling at my TV quite a bit, but overall I am not too worried. Have we overpaid? Probably, but that doesn't really mean anything going forward. He is good defensively and has shown some promising signs going forward as well, despite his general awkwardness on the ball. There are 4-5 other problems that need solving before RB (a good back-up would be nice though).
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He turned 23 last November. He’s had spells of poor form this season but also some excellent performances, against top opponents. Including a solid display in a rare clean sheet against Manchester City. Just one week ago. It’s crazy how keen some of you are to permanently write him off.

When he was the same age that AWB is now, Andy Robertson was being kept out of the Liverpool team by Alberto fecking Morena.
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I've never known the caf this bad in terms of desperation to criticise our own players. Ten years ago that performance against City would have earned him half a season's unconditional adulation, leaving aside the catalogue of similar shut-outs on top of being one of our better players all season.
 
You know those massive wavy armed inflatable things you might see at the entrance of restaurants or gas stations , his legs remind me of them, it's like he doesn't have control and someone is operating them with a remote controller, very strange
 
Greyfog said:
Before Pep came along, players used to be judged by their attributes in their primary position. Is he good at defending the right side of the defence, yes he is. Is he good at going forward, not so much but United's right offensive right side has been a weak link for a while now. A better right winger will leave him with much less to do. Instead of having to beat a man like a winger he will have space to overlap and do a low cross across the box for Martial to hit into the keepers thighs.
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He is good at tackling but sometimes a bit too far from the crosser. We got exposed in Europe in Back 2 back seasons vs Sevilla and RB and both times crashed out. teams can pass in behind him as well. So long as they don't try to go past him with the ball they can be a threat. Still think he is incredibly limited as a player and looks very limited just as a footballer in general and its mad he got picked up as a winger. That means as an amateur he was very good winger but now seems so limited on the ball. I would expect a winger to FB convert to be the best on the ball like Dani Alvez type. Looks a bit awkward and raggedy sometimes but he's not bad I suppose.
 
He is quite one-dimensional but he's so good defensively that we'd be mad to let him go. A defender who can put the best left-sided forwards in world football in his pocket has a place - just maybe not in every game. He is not going anywhere.

That said, he needs one or both of (#1) a more threatening and better ball-playing option in front of him on the right wing than James or Greenwood and (#2) an offensive-minded challenger for the RB position in the squad.

With one or both of those, I think our right side would be sorted for years to come. As it happens, #1 is arguably our highest priority transfer, so that upgrade in and of itself could dramatically change the productivity of our right side and calm the Caf - which I am sure is what the club optimizes for.

Also, #2 can probably be accomplished for a relatively low price.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
The context being that he'd only just joined Liverpool from Hull in July 2017. He played in two of the first five games; Moreno only featured in 10 of the first 12 games largely because Robertson was being integrated into the squad at the time. It wasn't due to poor performance that Robertson didn't start at LB right away.
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The context being that he wasn’t deemed good enough to start for Liverpool at the age AWB is now.

And, to repeat myself here, Alberto fecking Morena was considered a better option.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The context being that he wasn’t deemed good enough to start for Liverpool at the age AWB is now.
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Robertson played 2,663 minutes in his debut season for Liverpool. Moreno played 10 of the first 12 games for Liverpool, and then Robertson played more than 2/3 of the remainder of the season as the first-choice LB. Obviously he was deemed good enough at AWB's age.

Pogue Mahone said:
And, to repeat myself here, Alberto fecking Morena was considered a better option.
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No, he wasn't. Robertson was new to the club and was being transitioned into into the squad and the team. New players often aren't thrown into first-team places for reasons other than lack of competency.
 
He was poor on the ball yesterday, below even his standard. But calling for him to be sold is absolutely bonkers
He’s unbelievably good at defending which is most of his job. Good enough to be kept in the squad, get another rb in that’s effective going forward for the crap teams and rotate them as needed
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Robertson played 2,663 minutes in his debut season for Liverpool. Moreno played 10 of the first 12 games for Liverpool, and then Robertson played more than 2/3 of the remainder of the season as the first-choice LB. Obviously he was deemed good enough at AWB's age.



No, he wasn't. Robertson was new to the club and was being transitioned into into the squad and the team. New players often aren't thrown into first-team places for reasons other than lack of competency.
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Are you familiar with Alberto Morena? Did you watch him play? You seem to be glossing over the key point in my post for a load of nit-picking about minutes and fractions of seasons.
 
Stacks said:
The top teams in the world have more of the ball and expected ti attack so atm he suits more a mid/lower team who want to sit back and make last ditch tackles. I remember when Heinze got replaced by Evra, people thought Fergie was a mad lad
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I also remember who our RB was during our last CL winning season.
 
Bebestation said:
I also remember who our RB was during our last CL winning season.
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Me too, but Brown was better on the ball than AWB is. Can you picture AWB doing that 1-2 with Scholes off the throw-in and crossing to Ronaldo for the goal in the final? AWB can't play the quick touch that Brown did to start the 1-2.... every time he's on the ball it's seconds of looking, hesitating, turning his entire body to show everyone the direction he wants to pass.
 
There’s such a gulf between the things he’s good at the things he isn’t. If he can improve on the latter it would go a long way
 
I really think we have other priorities which are more important than replacing AWB. He has 5 goal involvements this year - which is not top quality but not horrible either. If we get some players in the box that can provide some movement and head the ball, I think he can do double digits just at his current level of ability.
Just for reference - Chilwell has around 7 goal involvements this season and Robertson has 6.
 
MTF said:
Me too, but Brown was better on the ball than AWB is. Can you picture AWB doing that 1-2 with Scholes off the throw-in and crossing to Ronaldo for the goal in the final? AWB can't play the quick touch that Brown did to start the 1-2.... every time he's on the ball it's seconds of looking, hesitating, turning his entire body to show everyone the direction he wants to pass.
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I think AWB plays for a 1-2 all the time actually but he doesn't get the pass back because our right side is very weak attacking wise - including him.

He plays the best with Rashford on the right and it's easy to see a difference that who he plays with does influence him.

I also think wan Bissaka's crossing is good in terms of quality - straight in to the box and deadly; its not about quality but quantity that effects him which is obviously having a toll on what people say.

I think he can be better attacking than Wes Brown as Wan Bissaka develops season by season whilst competing with someone like Trippier (summer target) until he hits wes brown age and experience.
 
Bebestation said:
I think AWB plays for a 1-2 all the time actually but he doesn't get the pass back because our right side is very weak attacking wise - including him.

He plays the best with Rashford on the right and it's easy to see a difference that who he plays with does influence him.

I also think wan Bissaka's crossing is good in terms of quality - straight in to the box and deadly; its not about quality but quantity that effects him which is obviously having a toll on what people say.

I think he can be better attacking than Wes Brown as Wan Bissaka develops season by season whilst competing with someone like Trippier (summer target) until he hits wes brown age and experience.
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Could not agree more - except maybe I am not sure about Trippier.
 
Gerald G said:
He's so bad on the ball that it's comical. He can't play in tight spaces and so often seems to be struggling to control a football when venturing forward. The crazy thing is that in his youth career he was a winger!
We - at the very least - need a RB to compete with him. He can't be starting every single game for us, especially matches like yesterday when we're trying to break teams down. Having a right side of AWB, McTominay (a little harsh from me) and Dan James was hilarious - because that side is technically deficient
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Him and Dan James are like Jack Russels pushing a ball forward with their nose. Lots energy, ball bobbling about, always on the verge of losing control. The last touch of an AWB dribble is usually him tackling the opposition.

MTF said:
Me too, but Brown was better on the ball than AWB is. Can you picture AWB doing that 1-2 with Scholes off the throw-in and crossing to Ronaldo for the goal in the final? AWB can't play the quick touch that Brown did to start the 1-2.... every time he's on the ball it's seconds of looking, hesitating, turning his entire body to show everyone the direction he wants to pass.
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Yes, this was particularly bad yesterday - the telegraphing of passes. McTominay does it a lot also.
 
Paxi said:
The difference in quality between him and Shaw is absolutely staggering. Incredible really. Does anyone ever see AWB reaching anywhere near the level Shaw is playing at right now? Cause that's what we need to compete in the league and the Champions League.
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In another post I was dramatic and said he needed to be sold but here’s the thing, it’s practically just been him at RB and we don’t really have a RW at all. Who knows what he would look like with that support on the right. He looks over worked and he has showed up in many big games. Could still see him improving and I also think people forget about the pandemic schedule.

We need another RB that’s for sure, and a full attacking one at that. But having him as an option in games against City and other strong left sided flank teams in the Champions League could still prove to be useful. He’s still quite young and he could still improve. I think Ole still has much to learn when it comes to man management and improving certain players. I do think Klopp, Ferguson or Pep would improve him and I do believe Ole still can. But he’s also had no competition there and no one to properly rotate with. The more I think I about it the more I think one more three or four player splurge and we can be very dangerous to play against week in and week out.
 
He is not a bad player defensively. It's the coaches responsibility to make him better. Especially his positional play and his passing.
As another OP said he never had anyone decent in front of him. No one who played on the right helped him in defending and also in attacking.
 
I think the difficulty in improving his attacking play is he wasn't actually that young when we bought him. It is probably a lot easier to polish a 17 or 18 year old that has good ability but lacks defensively than attempt to improve Wan-Bissaka. It's quite rare to see drastic improvement in basic technique such as control, dribbling, passing well into somebody's 20s. Probably not impossible but the margin for growth is not so big, I don't think we can expect miracles on that front. Which probably should have been picked up during scouting, maybe it was and we reasoned we can get away with the particular balance AWB offers although with our current right wing options that isn't working out.

It's generally decision making, consistency, tactical awareness and things that come with maturity and experience that have greater scope for improvement. In that respect it will probably be a case of tidying him up so we see his best performances more often rather than thinking he's going to become a good attacking right back.
 
I’m not worried about AWB. He is doing fine and will improve. Definitely more precarious things we need to sort out.
 
Polar said:
I’m not worried about AWB. He is doing fine and will improve. Definitely more precarious things we need to sort out.
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Exactly this. There are bigger problems than an RB who has some rough edges attacking-wise. Guy is young twenties - just needs intensive coaching and he'll be a top player for years to come.
 
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