United's transfer budget and current FFP/PSR concerns

Leftback99 said:
The tweets above are all about what we 'could spend' through FFP/PSR. Saying it's 'a disgrace' if we don't spend towards the limits is nonsense. Brighton could spend loads under FFP, doesn't mean they go and do it.

I remember reading about our finances a few months back and I said they look dire. I think it will be a year of getting things back under control to be able to spend bigger in the future.

Im no expert on all this but I'm pretty certain we won't see a massive net spend while we are making 250 redundancies.
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the redundancies are more about streamlining a bloated staff from what Ive read which of course is no comfort to the poor people who have lost their jobs. The redundancies are more operationally minded than financially driven perhaps.

It would completely undermine what INEOS are trying to do if we went out and acted like Chelsea.

A well-run club doesnt go out and spend huge amounts with highly paid players unlikely to get a game on the books.

Its not a quick fix but Im happy to wait for us to shift a few more before adding.

Even if we only get shot of AWB Id still expect us to buy a couple more but hopefully we can say goodbye to a number
 
buckooo1978 said:
the redundancies are more about streamlining a bloated staff from what Ive read which of course is no comfort to the poor people who have lost their jobs. The redundancies are more operationally minded than financially driven perhaps.

It would completely undermine what INEOS are trying to do if we went out and acted like Chelsea.

A well-run club doesnt go out and spend huge amounts with highly paid players unlikely to get a game on the books.

Its not a quick fix but Im happy to wait for us to shift a few more before adding.

Even if we only get shot of AWB Id still expect us to buy a couple more but hopefully we can say goodbye to a number
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It's all about getting costs under control, so that we can actually start making a profit (or at least breaking even) again. Transfer spend and wages a big part of that. Having regular champions league income would be useful too.
 
Leftback99 said:
It's all about getting costs under control, so that we can actually start making a profit (or at least breaking even) again. Transfer spend and wages a big part of that. Having regular champions league income would be useful too.
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very true on CL qualification but I feel confident. With a defensive midfielder I think we will get top 4 quite handily, assuming injuries weren't were they were last year.

progress isnt linear when it comes to individuals young players but I expect a lot more from this team this season for many. People forget we didnt get Mainoo into the team until quite late, Hojlund missed quite a bit too. A settled defence will be a huge improvement.

I think we will have addressed issues experienced last year with coaching changes and the marginal gains will make a big difference.

Will Villa be as consistent? Will Spurs start like they did. Can Slot be as consistent as Klopp? Who knows what Chelsea serve up.
 
I think the club has plenty to spend this summer, but they are sensibly playing this close to their chests to avoid the usual United tax nonsense.
 
GaryLifo said:
I think the club has plenty to spend this summer, but they are sensibly playing this close to their chests to avoid the usual United tax nonsense.
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I agree with you.
It gives us a stronger position selling our players as we dont have anybody in yet.
Also the likes of Bayern and PSG seem like they want players but do need to sell first, so we should hold out and watch them drop their prices
 
GaryLifo said:
I think the club has plenty to spend this summer, but they are sensibly playing this close to their chests to avoid the usual United tax nonsense.
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What makes you think there is plenty to spend at the same time we're posting losses and making redundancies?
 
Leftback99 said:
What makes you think there is plenty to spend at the same time we're posting losses and making redundancies?
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Because I have read the posts of that guy on Twitter who seems to have a very good grasp of football finance and he figured United can likely spend around 280 million if needed this summer. He wasn't saying they would spend it, just that there was room for this given the players on big salaries who left in the last 12 months.
 
GaryLifo said:
Because I have read the posts of that guy on Twitter who seems to have a very good grasp of football finance and he figured United can likely spend around 280 million if needed this summer. He wasn't saying they would spend it, just that there was room for this given the players on big salaries who left in the last 12 months.
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You do eventually have to pay for what you spend though. PSR rules are one thing but cash flow, profits and losses etc all have to be factored in.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
We’re allowed to make losses.

We “lost” 21/22, a huge loss making year.

And the rules coming in (squad cost control) are comfortable for us.

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Any business is allowed to make losses. No business wants to make losses.

I keep repeating myself but 'the rules' of how much we can spend and how much we can actually spend are two different things.

I can spend the maximum on my credit card, doesn't mean I should.
 
Plastic Evra said:
They might be allowed but I'm not sure INEOS is in the business of bleeding money. All those losses will be due in time even if they are regulation compliant.
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Just replying to a post. Didn’t say Ineos were
Sassy Colin said:
That Magic Hat talks out of his arse.
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Which bit? He’s got the rules wrong or the interpretation wrong or the %s wrong?
 
sparx99 said:
You do eventually have to pay for what you spend though. PSR rules are one thing but cash flow, profits and losses etc all have to be factored in.
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Yes I realise this and didn't claim otherwise. If United chose to max the credit card this summer then it could only be done if there is a clear plan for balancing the books longer term and would likely mean not being able to spend next summer. I suspect they'll find a middle ground and look to lose more of the higher earners over time
 
GaryLifo said:
Yes I realise this and didn't claim otherwise. If United chose to max the credit card this summer then it could only be done if there is a clear plan for balancing the books longer term and would likely mean not being able to spend next summer. I suspect they'll find a middle ground and look to lose more of the higher earners over time
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I think INEOS went straight to balancing books.
It's the reality of a top club they'll probably have to net spend on transfers anyway but just reading the transfer forums people bemoans buying Mount or Antony or [pick your favourite hated player] when we don't have 100m to splash around on a risky signing. So far it seems they follow a more frugal, more spread out recruitment policy towards younger players.
 
So we've only spent 46.3m this summer, when you consider the players we've sold to balance the books
 
buckooo1978 said:
very true on CL qualification but I feel confident. With a defensive midfielder I think we will get top 4 quite handily, assuming injuries weren't were they were last year.

progress isnt linear when it comes to individuals young players but I expect a lot more from this team this season for many. People forget we didnt get Mainoo into the team until quite late, Hojlund missed quite a bit too. A settled defence will be a huge improvement.

I think we will have addressed issues experienced last year with coaching changes and the marginal gains will make a big difference.

Will Villa be as consistent? Will Spurs start like they did. Can Slot be as consistent as Klopp? Who knows what Chelsea serve up.
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Utd are 2/1 to get top 4, whilst Chelsea are 6/4. This seems strange to me; I’ve or seen anything to suggest Chelsea should be viewed as more likely than Utd.
 
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We need to do whatever Chelsea is doing. They are about to sign their second 20m+ goalkeeper this week and I can’t even think of anyone they have sold this summer.

Edit - I remember they sold Maatsen.
 
GaryLifo said:
Yes I realise this and didn't claim otherwise. If United chose to max the credit card this summer then it could only be done if there is a clear plan for balancing the books longer term and would likely mean not being able to spend next summer. I suspect they'll find a middle ground and look to lose more of the higher earners over time
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Thing is, we've already more or less maxed out the credit card, and we're dealing with the consequences now.
 
NicolaSacco said:
It’s are 2/1 to get top 4, whilst Chelsea are 6/4. This seems strange to me; I’ve or seen anything to suggest Chelsea should be viewed as more likely than Utd.
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I'm not really sure why anyone would back United at the moment now the initial talk of change and signings seem to have dampened down.

We have the same manager who played disastrous football last year.

Casemiro is still in our first 11 with Erikson and Mctominay as back ups. Additionally we have lost Amrabat who whilst not great was a body if injuries struck in midfield or defence.

We still have no full back cover and limited striking options which were big deficiencies last season. And it looks like if we do bring in a FB it is an injury prone unproven one whilst AWB (again leaving us with no cover).

Finally whilst Yoro or Zirkzee look good they are young and unproven. Yoro is not yet better than the fit Varane we saw in the FA cup and Zirkzee even in a great last season doesn't score goals which is an area we desperately struggle with.

It seems we are massively putting a lot of faith in Rashford and Mount returning to form, Amad progressing and Garnacho and Mainoo continuing to grow with the latter avoiding 2nd season syndrome.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong.
 
NicolaSacco said:
It’s are 2/1 to get top 4, whilst Chelsea are 6/4. This seems strange to me; I’ve or seen anything to suggest Chelsea should be viewed as more likely than Utd.
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Easy to see why. By the end of last season Chelsea were a far better side than us. We performed like a bottom half side all season.

We've bought 2 players with potential for the future but haven't really improved the squad for next season at this point.
 
This is really hurting us, we need to find a way around this.
We are basically going into the new season with an almost identical squad to what finished 8th
We need upgrade on the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Mctominay...
 
Leftback99 said:
Easy to see why. By the end of last season Chelsea were a far better side than us. We performed like a bottom half side all season.

We've bought 2 players with potential for the future but haven't really improved the squad for next season at this point.
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Zirkzee is a clear upgrade on Martial in the squad. He’s also 23 so not one for the future. We had no striker at all for periods of last season.
 
izak said:
This is really hurting us, we need to find a way around this.
We are basically going into the new season with an almost identical squad to what finished 8th
We need upgrade on the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Mctominay...
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Really don’t think we can afford the luxury of upgrading our back-up players. One of the three you mentioned might go, but we probably need to keep Maguire, at least, to provide cover. Where we really need to spend, if we have the money, is on buying players that can go straight into the first team - starting with a DM would be good.
 
welshwingwizard said:
I'm not really sure why anyone would back United at the moment now the initial talk of change and signings seem to have dampened down.

We have the same manager who played disastrous football last year.

Casemiro is still in our first 11 with Erikson and Mctominay as back ups. Additionally we have lost Amrabat who whilst not great was a body if injuries struck in midfield or defence.

We still have no full back cover and limited striking options which were big deficiencies last season. And it looks like if we do bring in a FB it is an injury prone unproven one whilst AWB (again leaving us with no cover).

Finally whilst Yoro or Zirkzee look good they are young and unproven. Yoro is not yet better than the fit Varane we saw in the FA cup and Zirkzee even in a great last season doesn't score goals which is an area we desperately struggle with.

It seems we are massively putting a lot of faith in Rashford and Mount returning to form, Amad progressing and Garnacho and Mainoo continuing to grow with the latter avoiding 2nd season syndrome.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong.
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I suppose you are right if you view things in a negative way. I like to think we have a top manager who has now got professional structure to help him, we will not have the freakish run of injuries that affected the back four, we have signed two top young players early in the transfer window, the club have more lined up before the window shuts that will address gaps in the first team and squad depth. There will be a big improvement I am sure.
 
Giggsyking said:


we are really in a very good position both in relation to the PSR/SCR (europe) or the FER (PL).
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Well, my optimism I had based on that reading has certainly dwindled over the last couple of weeks.

Although we may be able to spend a lot from a FFP perspective, maybe the club actually want to prioritise making profit/minimising losses, or maybe they don't want to borrow any more cash.

The way we're behaving isn't that of a club who's about to go on a big spending spree to rebuild a very poor squad. There's some chance we're just trying to re-set the clubs reputation in terms of overpaying and are willing to drag out the deals to the end of the window to get the best deals. But then again spending that amount on an 18 year old centre back doesn't exactly fit that narrative of a club looking for bargains.
 
Pretend for a minute that for years we'd been cooking the books and inflating the sponsors. Consider our current struggle to even get a half decent dm in now and the extent of the advantage it would give us season after season to be able to do so.

That's the level of cheating city are accused of. Its an immeasurable advantage over all the clubs who tried to stay within the rules and its hard to conceive how even any of their titles remain if found guilty.
 
Might have well left Arnold and Murtough in charge for all the good the new lot have done in the transfer market. Utter clown show
 
mitchmouse said:
Might have well left Arnold and Murtough in charge for all the good the new lot have done in the transfer market. Utter clown show
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Arnold and Murtough are two of the main reasons we can't spend much this summer. It's not the new team's fault we're broke.
 
mitchmouse said:
Might have well left Arnold and Murtough in charge for all the good the new lot have done in the transfer market. Utter clown show
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Because of those clowns we are where we are. No money and high earners with long contracts. If INEOS do their job maybe in 2 seasons its looking brighter but how is it their fault?
 
We’re obviously not ready, looking at the threadbare choice of 1st teamers available for the US tour, the late returns from the Euros and Copa, plus the already worrying injury list.

As for incoming transfers, the clock is now ticking towards the deadline at the end of the month.
If the press reports are true about the possible transfers of de Ligt, Mazraoui and Ugarte, being held up by the selling clubs not budging on their asking price, we are either going to miss out on those players, or run the risk of over paying yet again, even if we manage to offload at least one of the likely outgoing players.
Likewise, WHU can tough it out on a deal for AWB, knowing full well we want to secure an incoming replacement and are dependent on a sale.

It was good to get the Zirkzee and Yoro deals done early, but we may now have lost out on trying to keep down the price of our incoming recruits.
 
mitchmouse said:
Might have well left Arnold and Murtough in charge for all the good the new lot have done in the transfer market. Utter clown show
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Comments like this are so unhelpful and ill informed.

We'd probably be in much worse condition if that was true. Very unlikely we'd have got Yoro, would have signed another bunch of past it players on huge wages, and I doubt there would have been any effort to refurb Carrington or start the new stadium project.
 
Let's hope they're trying to change the narrative that we'll pay anything/take any price for our players etc.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Let's hope they're trying to change the narrative that we'll pay anything/take any price for our players etc.
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I totally agree with this, but when you are £5-£6 million apart in your valuation for your top midfield target then surely you get the deal done?

If it’s a £20-£30 million difference then of course walk away, but potentially sabotaging your season to prove a point over £5-£6 million?
 
Garethw said:
I totally agree with this, but when you are £5-£6 million apart in your valuation for your top midfield target then surely you get the deal done?

If it’s a £20-£30 million difference then of course walk away, but potentially sabotaging your season to prove a point over £5-£6 million?
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The days when £5-6m is nothing to us are long gone.
 
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