United's 'Open Heart Surgery' under Ten Hag

Problem is most of the players ETH are of questionable ability except for the new defenders who came.
 
I'm beginning to think that we could spend $300 million in every window and unless by some luck the players gelled I could still see us going nowhere.

I don't think ETH tells players how he wants to play or has much idea about organisation and structure and plans in the pitch.

I hope that he proves me wrong but I'm not seeing much management.
 
Stig said:
I'm beginning to think that we could spend $300 million in every window and unless by some luck the players gelled I could still see us going nowhere.

I don't think ETH tells players how he wants to play or has much idea about organisation and structure and plans in the pitch.

I hope that he proves me wrong but I'm not seeing much management.
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Theres a reason we have Wilcox, Ashworth then RVN and Hake brought in.

Its to have everyone sing from the same hymn sheet.

Its not ETHs decision how to play, there's a clear blueprint his job is to coach.
 
TheNewEra said:
Theres a reason we have Wilcox, Ashworth then RVN and Hake brought in.

Its to have everyone sing from the same hymn sheet.

Its not ETHs decision how to play, there's a clear blueprint his job is to coach.
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Is he coaching ?
 
Okay. Let us be excited. We are going in the right direction for sure.

We have moved so many players on. I am terribly happy.
Sancho has been a terrible terrible player and i'm glad to see the back of him. He has been nothing but a menace for team spirit.

McT also moved on, who was very useful but did not point towards the direction we wanted to go.Martial gone, Varane gone. Young prospects signed.
Academy lads getting cleared as well to make space for new players to come forward.

Watch out EPL, in the next 3-4 years we should be a force to reckon with.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
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Hopefully the following will be on that list next summer:
Rashford
Casemiro
Antony
Maguire
Lindelof
Mount
Malacia
Erikson

Some these should bring in decent money so another opportunity to strengthen weaker areas of the team - striker, midfielder who can dictate play, left back, another winger.
 
redNATION said:
Hopefully the following will be on that list next summer:
Rashford
Casemiro
Antony
Maguire
Lindelof
Mount
Malacia
Erikson

Some these should bring in decent money so another opportunity to strengthen weaker areas of the team - striker, midfielder who can dictate play, left back, another winger.
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We have a pretty lean squad out around 22 outfield players right now. We cant sell 8 players next season, we would have to buy 6-7 players.

I think we sell/release the bolded, and get 3-4 players in. The summer after we can get rid of the rest you mentioned. Mount I still have a tiny bit of hope for.
 
Open heart surgery done. Now we need to be patient and let recuperate!

Let it heal and go from there. It will be bumpy in the start
 
redNATION said:
Hopefully the following will be on that list next summer:
Rashford
Casemiro
Antony
Maguire
Lindelof
Mount
Malacia
Erikson

Some these should bring in decent money so another opportunity to strengthen weaker areas of the team - striker, midfielder who can dictate play, left back, another winger.
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Would be great if we could shift those over the winter/summer windows
 
ColvaleGoa said:
Open heart surgery done. Now we need to be patient and let recuperate!

Let it heal and go from there. It will be bumpy in the start
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Nah, I'm not buying this. It doesn't need to be bumpy at all. We've not sold any starters or influential players, and we're into year 3 now. A competent coach gets top 4 easily with this squad, a very good coach would keep pace somewhat with City, much like Arsenal in Arteta's 3rd full season. We've spent a fortune on players, Ten Hag has been backed to the hilt, no more hiding.
 
pocco said:
Nah, I'm not buying this. It doesn't need to be bumpy at all. We've not sold any starters or influential players, and we're into year 3 now. A competent coach gets top 4 easily with this squad, a very good coach would keep pace somewhat with City, much like Arsenal in Arteta's 3rd full season. We've spent a fortune on players, Ten Hag has been backed to the hilt, no more hiding.
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We don’t have the fourth best squad in the league.
 
TheNewEra said:
Theres a reason we have Wilcox, Ashworth then RVN and Hake brought in.

Its to have everyone sing from the same hymn sheet.

Its not ETHs decision how to play, there's a clear blueprint his job is to coach.
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Not buying that at all, I still think the hag is deciding how we play and this is still determining signings to an extent. For example, ugarte got sold by psg because the manager what a better passer at the base of midfield. Seems possible we could hire a coach more fochssed on possession after ten hag. Or we could have one that wants two quick centre backs to support a high line who then won't want de ligt
 
Just to point out the quality of players that have left out team in the last few windows:

Paul Pogba, Jesse Lingard, De Gea, Bailly, Martial.

Guess how many were snapped up by top clubs, or could make their way back to top clubs?

We so badly needed this. We need more of the same, but you cant chuck the whole team in one window, we aren't chelsea.

If with this we can sort out our purchases to players who have potential and skill then my god what an amazing trajectory we will be set up for.

City with their corruption would be knocked off their bought out spot and just in time for an old and deserving guard to step in to hold the top of the table.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Who does? I think we quite clearly do.
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City, Liverpool and Arsenal are in a stronger, more balanced position and I think Spurs (and probably Chelsea, for that matter) have a better set of attacking players than we do.

We should be competitive for top four, but our midfield and attacking options are not particularly great.
 
Hester_manc said:
I am not sure - did our squad get better or worse this summer?
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In quality better. In numbers worse. But we still have the 3/4th best team in the league. On player Chelsea now go above us.. but on paper Liverpool are around 5th but they perform like a top 2 side.

So the job is now on the manager to get something out of this team or he should be gone.
 
Kag said:
City, Liverpool and Arsenal are in a stronger, more balanced position and I think Spurs (and probably Chelsea, for that matter) have a better set of attacking players than we do.

We should be competitive for top four, but our midfield and attacking options are not particularly great.
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Spurs and Chelsea arguably have better attacks (not convinced by Chelsea though at all) but the rest of the Utd team is far better. Particularly in defence which is (or at least should be) top tier.
 
pocco said:
I think we do. We're stacked in every position.
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We are? Hojlind, Zirkzee, Amad, Antony, Garnacho and Rashford are our six forwards and there’s not a guarantee between the lot of them. Lots of promise, granted, but no guarantee.

I like our defensive options when fit. I think we’ve done good business there.
 
Before heart surgery Erik ate lot of fried food (Antony/Case/Mason/Onana) which made the surgery bit difficult but I think operation will be completed soon
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Spurs and Chelsea arguably have better attacks (not convinced by Chelsea though at all) but the rest of the Utd team is far better. Particularly in defence which is (or at least should be) top tier.
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Which is sort of what I said, right? I don’t think there’s much between Chelsea, Spurs and United on the whole. I agree that I think we have better defenders than either.
 
pocco said:
I think we do. We're stacked in every position.
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Don't know about that. We don't have a reliable left back, all of our attackers have everything to prove (to be kind in some cases), and it's obvious we lack a progressive passer in midfield. It's clearly still a bit of a work in progress, since you can't fix it all straight away - especially when decision makers have only just been appointed in the window gone.

We're stacked in central defence.
 
We've improved our squad depth but not the quality of our first XI to be honest. None of the players we've brought in get us closer to Arsenal and Liverpool never mind City.
 
Hester_manc said:
I am not sure - did our squad get better or worse this summer?
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I'd say so. McTominay, Varane and Wan Bissaka are the only players we've lost that made a meaningful contribution last season, and we've replaced (and hopefully improved) them.

But the biggest positive is we've set ourselves up better long term. We still have pressing areas to address, but trimming the squad puts us in a stronger position to rebuild. It's difficult to strengthen the squad when you've got a load of overpaid, underperforming players that you're unable to shift, so getting rid of so many of them this summer is a big win.
 
Blood Mage said:
We've improved our squad depth but not the quality of our first XI to be honest. None of the players we've brought in get us closer to Arsenal and Liverpool never mind City.
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I've always been in the opinion that if we are to catch those sides they would have to reach closer to our level through natural decline or managerial changes. They are hogging most of the better players in the world right now and undoubtedly the best manager in pep. Also, I don't see great quality in the market right now. That's a different discussion altogether but that's how I see it. You just have to see the number 9 position in the world right now.
 
Globule said:
I'd say so. McTominay, Varane and Wan Bissaka are the only players we've lost that made a meaningful contribution last season, and we've replaced (and hopefully improved) them.

But the biggest positive is we've set ourselves up better long term. We still have pressing areas to address, but trimming the squad puts us in a stronger position to rebuild. It's difficult to strengthen the squad when you've got a load of overpaid, underperforming players that you're unable to shift, so getting rid of so many of them this summer is a big win.
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But which player of the new signings are better than the players we already have in their positions? Ugarte may be better because we did not have a typical ball winning number 6 in the sqaud. But is Zirkzee better than any of our attacking options? Are De Ligt and Yoro better than Maguire or Matinez?
 
Kag said:
We are? Hojlind, Zirkzee, Amad, Antony, Garnacho and Rashford are our six forwards and there’s not a guarantee between the lot of them. Lots of promise, granted, but no guarantee.

I like our defensive options when fit. I think we’ve done good business there.
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2 players for every position, I think that's good. Arsenal don't have a real CF, Liverpool have only Nunez and are trying to shoehorn a winger in at CF.

Defensively we've got better options than most teams in the league. In midfield we've now got a good selection of players, some with great pedigree and some outstanding talent like Mainoo. I think a really good coach would have this squad looking good.
 
didz said:
Don't know about that. We don't have a reliable left back, all of our attackers have everything to prove (to be kind in some cases), and it's obvious we lack a progressive passer in midfield. It's clearly still a bit of a work in progress, since you can't fix it all straight away - especially when decision makers have only just been appointed in the window gone.

We're stacked in central defence.
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We don't have a reliable LB, but other teams are thin for full back cover. We've got two LBs and two RBs that can play LB. I think that's fine. And whilst we don't have a progressive passer, so to speak (I'm guessing you're referring to a deeper CM, as Bruno is progressive) but do other teams? Rodri at City is, but are Rice and Partey? I don't think the abilities of Casemiro, Mainoo and hopefully Ugarte, is any worse than other teams, even if they're not Carrick/Scholes levels.

I could go through every team and pick out weaknesses. Liverpool have no decent DM, Arsenal don't have a true CF, Liverpool have one flaky CF, City have no cover for Haaland, Chelsea have one flaky CF, Spurs lack depth in most areas as do Villa, Liverpool only have one RW I believe. I think the top teams all have issues this season, so it's up to us to capitalise.
 
pocco said:
2 players for every position, I think that's good. Arsenal don't have a real CF, Liverpool have only Nunez and are trying to shoehorn a winger in at CF.

Defensively we've got better options than most teams in the league. In midfield we've now got a good selection of players, some with great pedigree and some outstanding talent like Mainoo. I think a really good coach would have this squad looking good.
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That's the key point. It's not just going to be about adding depth or quality players in each position. A good coach can add +10 to +15 points in addition when supported. ETH is backed to the fullest and it's time for him to deliver this season or leave.
 
pocco said:
We don't have a reliable LB, but other teams are thin for full back cover. We've got two LBs and two RBs that can play LB. I think that's fine. And whilst we don't have a progressive passer, so to speak (I'm guessing you're referring to a deeper CM, as Bruno is progressive) but do other teams? Rodri at City is, but are Rice and Partey? I don't think the abilities of Casemiro, Mainoo and hopefully Ugarte, is any worse than other teams, even if they're not Carrick/Scholes levels.

I could go through every team and pick out weaknesses. Liverpool have no decent DM, Arsenal don't have a true CF, Liverpool have one flaky CF, City have no cover for Haaland, Chelsea have one flaky CF, Spurs lack depth in most areas as do Villa, Liverpool only have one RW I believe. I think the top teams all have issues this season, so it's up to us to capitalise.
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I'm not really sure how picking through other teams supports your initial claim that we're stacked in every position.
 
Hester_manc said:
But which player of the new signings are better than the players we already have in their positions? Ugarte may be better because we did not have a typical ball winning number 6 in the sqaud. But is Zirkzee better than any of our attacking options? Are De Ligt and Yoro better than Maguire or Matinez?
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Who knows. That's something that can only be determined on the field.

But De Ligt doesn't need to be better than Maguire for it to still be an improvement in our squad. If we can go through the season without having to resort to Casemiro at centre back that would be an improvement.
Same with Zirkzee. He doesn't need to better than Fernandes or Hojlund. If he's better than Martial, our squad is better.
 
pocco said:
2 players for every position, I think that's good. Arsenal don't have a real CF, Liverpool have only Nunez and are trying to shoehorn a winger in at CF.

Defensively we've got better options than most teams in the league. In midfield we've now got a good selection of players, some with great pedigree and some outstanding talent like Mainoo. I think a really good coach would have this squad looking good.
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I don’t have a problem with numbers, moreso how proven they are as a unit. I don’t have as much faith in our midfield options as you do either.

I think a really good coach would encounter many of the same issues we’ve seen over the past few years, especially if and when injuries strike. Though like I said, football must improve.
 
If it's open heart surgery, I'm worried about the quality of the donated heart.
 
didz said:
That's an even worse argument.
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Where aren't we stacked?

2x RBs who are both good players
2X LB with one who is supposedly one of the best around. Plus both RBs can play there
6x CBs all of a good to supposedly top level
2x CDMs in Case and Ugarte
3x CMs 2 of which are supposedly top young talents and the other is good experience in Eriksen
3x CAMs one who is one of the best around, Mount who cost a fortune, and Eriksen can play there
2x LW in Garnacho and Rashford
2x RW in Amad and Antony, plus Garnacho can play there
2x CF who have cost us over £100m over the last 12 - 18 months and you would therefore hope are good players.

Plus anybody else I've forgot. That is a well balanced squad. We have better depth now than most teams, most of these players have been signed in the last 2 years so there can't be many arguments on the managers behalf.
 
pocco said:
Where aren't we stacked?

2x RBs who are both good players
2X LB with one who is supposedly one of the best around. Plus both RBs can play there
6x CBs all of a good to supposedly top level
2x CDMs in Case and Ugarte
3x CMs 2 of which are supposedly top young talents and the other is good experience in Eriksen
3x CAMs one who is one of the best around, Mount who cost a fortune, and Eriksen can play there
2x LW in Garnacho and Rashford
2x RW in Amad and Antony, plus Garnacho can play there
2x CF who have cost us over £100m over the last 12 - 18 months and you would therefore hope are good players.

Plus anybody else I've forgot. That is a well balanced squad. We have better depth now than most teams, most of these players have been signed in the last 2 years so there can't be many arguments on the managers behalf.
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You've used the word supposedly 3 times in reference to 9 different players, the word hope in reference to two, pointed to transfer fees when struggling for an argument in favour of quality, and glossed over the fact that one of the left backs hasn't played football in over a year while Rashford and Antony have been off the boil for about as long, or longer.

It doesn't really sound like you believe in the point you're making.
 
The real "open heart surgery" is on the way we play and approach games and that is yet to happen. We have played in a very similar way for 10 plus utterly mediocre years and it has not changed.
 
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