United to introduce a wage structure capped at 200k per week

Why would a player accept incentives based salary if he can get it as guarantee based at other club? What happened if he was injured?

Take example, Rashford. His contract will be renewed with 200k base and the rest are performance related incentives. At the current market rate he can easily demand 300k a week. Let's say PSG offered him 300k-400k a week and also performance related incentives. We can say goodbye to Rashford.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Who said it was the same? Its an analogy. Look it up
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It was a poor analogy. A cursory glance on Google suggests there’s about 15-20 players in the league on >200k a week, and if you interrogate those lists I reckon there’s only 5 (KDB, Haaland, Salah, Foden and Reece James) I’d want at United. So it’s like going food shopping and not being able to buy 5 things that you might want in the entire shop but there’s still loads of good alternatives for what you can afford.

This isn’t even accounting for how you can structure wages with performance incentives so that you still might be able to buy those 5 things anyway. So, yeah.
 
r0663664 said:
Totally agree! why is footballer earning so much. I don't think Liverpool pays their players as much as United. Their bonus should be base on match appearance, MOTM, no. of goals score, no. of assist, no. of clean sheet, EPL player of the month, EPL team of the year and cups progress.

Wins against top team in EPL will also be incentivise e.g. City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal as long as you make it to the bench. This will motivate the team to train well in order to be select for the match.

There should also be penalties of picking up red cards, no. of silly yellow cards and etc. Players can still get top dollars as long as the clubs in going great.
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There is some of that in NBA contracts and it's very weird to see how players leave rebounds for someone, assist someone over somebody else so they hit their targets and money bonuses. I don't think that's something you'd want in football in a way that it determine more than a third of your pay. When you belong in the bracket of players that "deserve" 300/400k, you'd want most of it guaranteed.
 
TheReligion said:
As pointed out it hasn’t and has already been happening
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Pointed out where exactly? None of those links above tell you what his actual salary is. The 25% cut for not qualifying for the Champions League is not the same as a wage cap.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Why would a player accept incentives based salary if he can get it as guarantee based at other club? What happened if he was injured?

Take example, Rashford. His contract will be renewed with 200k base and the rest are performance related incentives. At the current market rate he can easily demand 300k a week. Let's say PSG offered him 300k-400k a week and also performance related incentives. We can say goodbye to Rashford.
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They won't, it's nonsense.

Just a story based on a De Gea perhaps getting a new lower contract, throwing in Ronaldo and extrapolating into something else.

The Mail themselves reported that Bruno's new contract was £240k a few months ago.
 
Lots of fun comments in this thread.

I’m thinking this is a non-story. The same thing will always apply. Players look at the whole package, part of which is the money. If we want top players to stay here or come here we have to compete on the money. Does it matter how it’s structured? Maybe. Will we hold a hard line and let top players walk? I doubt it.
 
AltiUn said:
Why would a wage cap be a stupid idea? Haven't we largely agreed we've been offering stupid wages for years? Madrid and Liverpool remained competitive without offering the obscene wages we do, Madrid with 2 notable exceptions, we regularly have the largest wage bill in the league and our on-field performances rarely come close to matching that.
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We absolutely need to be more sensible about the wages we offer. I just think a wage cap is a stupid way to do this. If we pay everyone in the first team squad 200k our wage bill would still be too high, despite the wage cap. Paying top dollar to a very small number of elite performers would be manageable if we didn’t also overpay loads of mediocre squad players. But we will always need to pay a few players very high wages if we a) want to sign the very best players in the world and b) hold on to any extra special players developing at the club.
 
TheReligion said:
My point is United have been doing this with wages for a while so it’s likely he’s already on a contract similar to Casemiro which is heavily incentivised.

The 200k figure is new but it’s been widely reported for a while United were moving to this format, hence why so many players lost 25% this season due to no CL football.
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How much of Casemiro’s contract is incentivised? What’s the split? I can’t obviously see anything which says he’s getting £150k in weekly incentives.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
It was a poor analogy. A cursory glance on Google suggests there’s about 15-20 players in the league on >200k a week, and if you interrogate those lists I reckon there’s only 5 (KDB, Haaland, Salah, Foden and Reece James) I’d want at United. So it’s like going food shopping and not being able to buy 5 things that you might want in the entire shop but there’s still loads of good alternatives for what you can afford.

This isn’t even accounting for how you can structure wages with performance incentives so that you still might be able to buy those 5 things anyway. So, yeah.
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Agree my analogies are sht. But my point still stands. Everyone agrees that paying ridiculous fees is stupid. But at the same time a wage cap could be cutting our noses off to spite our face.

1) Will it really make everyone feel equal in the dressing room or make them feel good? Say we have long term players Shaw, De Gea etc on 200. Then we sign a young super star on CB on 200. Or they see other shitter players at other clubs on more. Will they not still feel put out?
2) If they get extra based on appearances, goals etc then wont it just make them feel more spiteful if they are benched. Maguire is probably pissed off as it is. If he was loosing thousands this would cause even more agro. Same with other squad players. Or even if say Rashford/Martial etc is taken off in a game where we are scoring freely say 5-0 and they han't got thier goal yet. Will they not be sligtly more annoyed being take off?
3) How do we compete if say Real offer 250 to Garnacho? What happens when the next Messi turns up? They get 200 only?

There are so many problems that even if the result is what we want it might not be the correct solution
 
I like the idea but what happens when a player like Mbappe or Bellingham becomes available and would be willing to join us but they’re being offered double elsewhere? Are we happy to miss out on a generational talent because they won’t accept 200k per week?
 
Mickeza said:
You shouldn’t have a player on a team earning more than twice anyone else in my opinion - completely against the notion of building a team. If that means we don’t sign mbappe then so be it.
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Real Madrid coped alright. Unless you think Ronaldo didn’t earn vastly more than many of his teammates when they were winning Champions League every year. Or Messi at Barcelona.
 
acnumber9 said:
Pointed out where exactly? None of those links above tell you what his actual salary is. The 25% cut for not qualifying for the Champions League is not the same as a wage cap.
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Doracle said:
How much of Casemiro’s contract is incentivised? What’s the split? I can’t obviously see anything which says he’s getting £150k in weekly incentives.
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The article mentions his salary will reduce to what he was on at Real without incentives being achieved. Intriguingly that was 202k.

The point is simple really. We will still pay big money to compete but the contracts will be structured around lower base rates and bigger incentives.
 
For the long term it doesnt make sense as well. In football 200k in three years will be very different than 200k today. Its much more inflated than inflation itself.
 
acnumber9 said:
Real Madrid coped alright. Unless you think Ronaldo didn’t earn vastly more than many of his teammates when they were winning Champions League every year. Or Messi at Barcelona.
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Messi with Barcelona is a great example. They didn’t get into financial shit at all did they paying the obscene wage he was on causing him to leave on a free. And Madrid have also gone to shit since Ronaldo left haven’t they? Haven’t won a single thing since.
 
TheReligion said:
The article mentions his salary will reduce to what he was on at Real without incentives being achieved. Intriguingly that was 202k.

The point is simple really. We will still pay big money to compete but the contracts will be structured around lower base rates and bigger incentives.
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Which article? Because if you Google it you will find multiple different sources quoting different things. Sometimes the same paper contradicting themselves. If you choose to believe that his salary would drop to 200k a week then that would make his salary £270k per week. Which goes back to £200k a week not being enough to attract or keep top players.
 
A pay structure makes sense, though a cap of £200k seems a bit off. I think the bigger problem we've had is overpaying fringe players. Ronaldo and Sanchez are the only two players we've given insane contracts to but the amount of lower value players on wages that we can't shift has been a bigger pattern than having superstars on a silly salary.

We've largely been shit at selling because we're giving a guy £120k / week rather than £75k / week.
 
Mickeza said:
Messi with Barcelona is a great example. They didn’t get into financial shit at all did they paying the obscene wage he was on causing him to leave on a free. And Madrid have also gone to shit since Ronaldo left haven’t they? Haven’t won a single thing since.
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It seems like you don’t really understand your own point. I responded to you saying that’s not how you build a team. Obviously you can build a successful team with the top players earning comfortably the most money. That is true of every club in football.

Barcelona’s issue was paying ridiculous wages to everybody else. Do you believe that Real Madrid don’t pay their top players way more than others?
 
acnumber9 said:
Which article? Because if you Google it you will find multiple different sources quoting different things. Sometimes the same paper contradicting themselves. If you choose to believe that his salary would drop to 200k a week then that would make his salary £270k per week. Which goes back to £200k a week not being enough to attract or keep top players.
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The number of ones I’ve posted
 
acnumber9 said:
It seems like you don’t really understand what is being talked about. I responded to a guy saying that’s not how you build a team. Obviously you can build a successful team with the top players earning comfortably the most money. That is true of every club in football.
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You responded to me. I was that guy. And shit loads of teams have won where players weren’t on twice more than their colleagues - like us when we were successful. What’s your point? It was only as their careers went on that their salary became more ridiculous. Bale was on 600k a week ffs - the whole squad was on crazy wages. And as I replied - Madrid have continued winning without Ronaldo and the ridiculous wage so it wasn’t necessary. And Barcelona’s insane wage structure caught up with them leading to the total dismantling of the team. I don’t think as they rebuild they’re thinking “let’s get someone else more than a million per week” - that isn’t the lesson here. Team beats individuals. If they aren’t buying into that they can feck off.
 
We shouldn't be signing Mbappe anyway so I don't really think that's an example to discredit the idea. He's on about a billion a week, isn't he? Until we have bottomless pockets we have to live within our means.

Which means we can play extraordinarily well, at the top end of the market, but taking on his salary package is probably only for PSG or City, or someone willing to make huge compromises within the rest of the squad. If we get taken over and it is affordable outside the confines of club finances that is a different thing, but I think as a club that relies on self financing our deals paying Mbappe whatever he wants is not that smart. Paying Ronaldo stupid money was undoubtedly a huge mistake as well.

There's a lot of good players in the world that are affordable for 200k a week plus every bonus and benefit under the sun.
 
Incentivised contracts make sense. I’m sure the bonuses will essentially mean that someone like Casemiro can earn the equivalent of his current wage over the course of the season if all targets are met.
 
Mickeza said:
Messi with Barcelona is a great example. They didn’t get into financial shit at all did they paying the obscene wage he was on causing him to leave on a free. And Madrid have also gone to shit since Ronaldo left haven’t they? Haven’t won a single thing since.
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I don't think Messi is a great example as he generated more money for Barca than he was paid. What Barca chose to do with that money was the problem. Coutinho, Dembele, Greizman as examples.
 
Mickeza said:
You responded to me. I was that guy. And shit loads of teams have won where players weren’t on twice more than their colleagues - like us when we were successful. What’s your point? It was only as their careers went on that their salary became more ridiculous. Bale was on 600k a week ffs - the whole squad was on crazy wages. And as I replied - Madrid have continued winning without Ronaldo and the ridiculous wage so it wasn’t necessary. And Barcelona’s insane wage structure caught up with them leading to the total dismantling of the team. I don’t think as they rebuild they’re thinking “let’s get someone else more than a million per week” - that isn’t the lesson here. Team beats individuals. If they aren’t buying into that they can feck off.
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I edited my post when I realised. My point is that teams can be harmonious and successful while there is a big disparity in wages. What point were you trying to make?

Real Madrid have continued winning. That only strengthens my argument, not yours. Real Madrid still have players earning huge sums of money. The following is the first search on Google:

https://salarysport.com/football/la-liga/real-madrid/

That has Hazard earning double what Vinicius does and five times what Valverde earns. Given they were two of their most important players last season I’d say it’s fairly conclusive that you can build a team with disparity in wages.
 
Mickeza said:
You shouldn’t have a player on a team earning more than twice anyone else in my opinion - completely against the notion of building a team. If that means we don’t sign mbappe then so be it.
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That's not very smart. Would you say Williams should earn no less than half of what Casemiro/Bruno/Varane/Rashford are earning?
I have one word for this discussion: merit
 
Mickeza said:
You responded to me. I was that guy. And shit loads of teams have won where players weren’t on twice more than their colleagues - like us when we were successful. What’s your point? It was only as their careers went on that their salary became more ridiculous. Bale was on 600k a week ffs - the whole squad was on crazy wages. And as I replied - Madrid have continued winning without Ronaldo and the ridiculous wage so it wasn’t necessary. And Barcelona’s insane wage structure caught up with them leading to the total dismantling of the team. I don’t think as they rebuild they’re thinking “let’s get someone else more than a million per week” - that isn’t the lesson here. Team beats individuals. If they aren’t buying into that they can feck off.
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I suggest you check who was earning how much during Sir Alex stint, at any point. Check Keane's record wages and how much did others in the squad make.
 
TheReligion said:
and Sports Illustrated. There’s others to.

Bare in mind we are discussing a single article from the Mail :lol:
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There are others. None of them actually tell you what he earns. The point being that if you choose to believe that failing to qualify for the Champions League means a 25% cut that brings him to 202k per week, then his current salary would have to be £270k per week. The 25% cut from base salary for not qualifying for the Champions League has been in place for years. It’s not the same as capping base salary at 200k.

No amount of incentives would make Mbappe or the like sign for Man United unless the incentives were so easy as to make the ‘cap’ utterly pointless.
 
georgipep said:
That's not very smart. Would you say Williams should earn no less than half of what Casemiro/Bruno/Varane/Rashford are earning?
I have one word for this discussion: merit
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No. I said you shouldn’t have one player earning twice more than your next highest earner. That’s clearly what I meant. I didn’t mean Bruno shouldn’t be on twice more than will fish ffs. Obviously.
 
Mickeza said:
You shouldn’t have a player on a team earning more than twice anyone else in my opinion - completely against the notion of building a team. If that means we don’t sign mbappe then so be it.
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Mickeza said:
No. I said you shouldn’t have one player earning twice more than your next highest earner. That’s clearly what I meant. I didn’t mean Bruno shouldn’t be on twice more than will fish ffs. Obviously.
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You literally said anyone.
 
acnumber9 said:
I edited my post when I realised. My point is that teams can be harmonious and successful while there is a big disparity in wages. What point were you trying to make?

Real Madrid have continued winning. That only strengthens my argument, not yours. Real Madrid still have players earning huge sums of money. The following is the first search on Google:

https://salarysport.com/football/la-liga/real-madrid/

That has Hazard earning double what Vinicius does and five times what Valverde earns. Given they were two of their most important players last season I’d say it’s fairly conclusive that you can build a team with disparity in wages.
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So again - I didn’t say you can’t. You giving me an outlier makes no odds to me. And actually telling me hazard is on shit tons more than anyone else proves my point - he shouldn’t be. Neither should Bale. I’m not saying you shouldn’t pay big money - I’m saying if I’m building a team first ethos where no player is bigger than the club signing Kylian mbappe for 800k a week when the next highest earner is on 250k a week isn’t something I would be doing.
 
Pronewbie said:
We don't have the sophistry to run the club like Real Madrid. This is us going back to our northern, grafter roots and I'm all for it. It is what attracted me to the club in the 1st place.
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The sophistry...?
 
LARulz said:
In theory it's nice but also what happens when these young players we get who accept it become great and Madrid start sniffing again for example. We basically then become Dortmund as these players will jump

The market right now, for top players, I don't think ultimately allows for this. We should be strict on salary but not if it means giving up/losing out on a world class player
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The fact is, if you're winning trophies, the vast majority of players wont leave, we've so many examples of that down the years in great sides.

Dortmund lose players because they dont win major trophies. Players have to leave to make the next step.
 
Leftback99 said:
Exactly so Rashford in current form isn't going to sign for £200k a week again.

It seems pretty simple to me, just pay players what they could get elsewhere at the most. Too many of our squad players are on ridiculous contracts hence our issues with selling for reasonable fees.
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What? So if, just for example, Betis gives Rashford £800k/week we should to?

£200k/week is more than enough for players. I would even go less. They are not doctors. They are just players. I know how this business works so we don’t have to discuss that. Just simply pointing out that complaining about £200k a week is ridiculous.
 
acnumber9 said:
There are others. None of them actually tell you what he earns. The point being that if you choose to believe that failing to qualify for the Champions League means a 25% cut that brings him to 202k per week, then his current salary would have to be £270k per week. The 25% cut from base salary for not qualifying for the Champions League has been in place for years. It’s not the same as capping base salary at 200k.

No amount of incentives would make Mbappe or the like sign for Man United unless the incentives were so easy as to make the ‘cap’ utterly pointless.
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The 25% cut was for last season. Casemiro was not at the club. It’s clear his contract is heavily incentivised though as per the

You’re nit picking.

The point is the club has been doing this (rightly so in my opinion) for some time.

it will still compete for top players and they will still get big money.
 
Mickeza said:
No. I said you shouldn’t have one player earning twice more than your next highest earner. That’s clearly what I meant. I didn’t mean Bruno shouldn’t be on twice more than will fish ffs. Obviously.
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I apologize for the mistake. But again, I don't think such general rules are a good idea.

This "staircase" in squad wages would create tension all across. The low earners will stop the higher quality players of getting more deserved pay, while the high earners will automatically raise the floor for the players on lower salaries.
It's neither efficient allocation of money, nor effective in keeping a squad happy with their compensation.
 
Lentwood said:
The fact is, if you're winning trophies, the vast majority of players wont leave, we've so many examples of that down the years in great sides.

Dortmund lose players because they dont win major trophies. Players have to leave to make the next step.
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Agree. People would have a big surprise of they have a look at Madrid wages. Some of them were/are way underpaid but still stay.
 
I think it is a totally terrible idea. Our problem was paying over odds for average players (or even bad ones), not a wage cap. Even with the wage cap, we would still be overpaying in Maguire, Shaw, Williams etc. And for those we overpaid above the wage cap, there was no need to give 350k to Sancho, 250k to Martial, or pay De Gea twice as much as the next highest paid keeper.

We should consider salaries in individual basis. If we can sign Mbappe and pay him 600k/week, so be it. But that doesn't mean that we should pay Fred or Lindelof 120k/week, or Jones 75k/week (when we could have had a pay as you play) or 90k/week to AWB, or 120k to Henderson.
 
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