I think a China WC is long overdue. Between that and the recent SKorea/Japan, I think that's pretty good representation.
United States-led 2026 World Cup bid in jeopardy to Morocco's
- Thread starter Man of Leisure
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I think a China WC is long overdue. Between that and the recent SKorea/Japan, I think that's pretty good representation.
When dealing with awarding a country the WC, fans shouldn't have to "hold in" their sexual orientation just because said country is still living in the dark ages. Just as you wouldn't hold in your blackness or brownness. Its a part of who you are and if the country thinks that should be illegal then it should be a factor when determining whether or not they should be awarded the tournament.
It’s interesting to see who believes acceptance of homosexuality is just a matter of choice on the part of a country, like whether to drive on the left or right, rather than being both a logical and compassionate way of thinking.
So you wrote something on a delicate subject that you knew would be misunderstood because of the way you wrote it? Yeah, you're a real intellectual.
By your standards and those of RedDevil@84 anti-Semitism is unimportant because you can't really tell if someone is a Jew. Or were you just being provocative again?
The problem isn't only for the fans attending but for those inside the country whose suppression is possibly being supported. The kids beaten up at school for being queer.
So you wrote something on a delicate subject that you knew would be misunderstood because of the way you wrote it? Yeah, you're a real intellectual.
By your standards and those of RedDevil@84 anti-Semitism is unimportant because you can't really tell if someone is a Jew. Or were you just being provocative again?
The problem isn't only for the fans attending but for those inside the country whose suppression is possibly being supported. The kids beaten up at school for being queer.
Why? What if my country chooses to believe that the proletariat should be beaten with big sticks? Stop oppressing us.
Well I'm sure it would be a great success over here (unfortunately won't happen whilst I'm living here though) but I don't think they even come close to meeting the criteria I'd personally use for selection. However when it next comes to Asia I'd put money on them being chosen as the hosts. Infrastructure (world's largest airline fleet, most extensive - and brilliant - train network, superb metros etc.) is almost there, everything would sell out at very high prices (wonderful for FIFA) and English signage everywhere and English widely spoken by young people and in businesses (hotels and restaurants). Some great stadiums and we know the Chinese are superb organisers and security almost a non-issue (I'm not going there).
My point is very simple. I don't believe any country should oppose homosexuality or worse have laws against it. But I don't necessarily see it as enough of a deterrent when deciding WC venues. Not every country has perfect laws.
Unless, there is a real threat that fans from other belief systems will actively be in danger of getting arrested/beaten up etc., a football crazy nation should not be stopped from hosting a WC.
Unless, there is a real threat that fans from other belief systems will actively be in danger of getting arrested/beaten up etc., a football crazy nation should not be stopped from hosting a WC.
Wonder what will happen in Russia. I really wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of fan violence with some of those Russian groups.
I can't disagree and there's really nothing to prove it one way or the other but I think this sort of event can both open up a country and reinforce the status quo.
When it's a matter of a recent regression (by my standards, of course) as in Russia I would tend to see it as more reinforcing the status quo. In Morocco, I'd like to think the opposite.
So you'll ignore the USA's issues of human trafficking, drugs and guns (hugely more likely a few football fans will get murdered in the USA than anyone get arrested in Morocco for homosexuality during a WC when I'm sure authorities would be advised to look the other way) but this now becomes a big issue for you ? If anyone feels it is then simply don't go, it's a sporting event that most people can't afford anyway, it's not a denial of your lifestyle. Many homosexuals travel as tourists to Morocco, would you care to point out to us all- since it's clearly a major issue for you - all of the arrests and punishments of these said tourists ?
Russia wasn't an inane choice of host, at the point Russia won their bid(which like with every other bid i'm sure had some shady deals going on) they were the last big country with a long established football culture in the world not to have hosted. Putin's increasingly authoritarian regime and foreign policy since then + recent hooliganism issues have sucked a lot of goodwill out of things but it as a perfectly legit host destination.
Something we agree on.
Gods, I hope you are right.
Maybe. Timelines blur. Maybe it's only considered inane now in light of recent hardening of political stances, repressive amendments to the law (wife-beating) and doping scandals.
I've said that I think the World Cup could be good for Morocco and I've said that this isn't just about those visiting the World Cup (the Moroccan authorities are know to look the other way in tourist areas) but about support for the idea.
This could be good for breaking down such prejudices (as it can be for other prejudices and in other countries. The British tabloids seemed to belatedly realise that the Germans were human after the last German WC).
It's the fact that you're so willing to dismiss morality apart from a country's laws that is dispiriting. You wrote 'And by that I mean breaking any laws which are different from those at home, even if you believe they impinge on your human rights. If you can't then don't go !'.
I can't believe what i'm reading in this thread.
A lot of hypocrisy, Elitism and Selfishness in here. Every country deserves a chance to host the world cup, no matter where it is or if it has the means to do so right now. the world cup is in 8 years, not tomorrow. the countries that people say have the infrastructure right now, well most of them do because they hosted a world cup or an event similar to this one and there's no reason that a "poor" country can't have it. most of these countries are poor mainly because of past events that everyone knows about, i won't go into that as it's not the thread to do so. it's only fair that we try to help each other to re balance things out. the aim of each country shouldn't be to be better than other countries and stay better, it's not a competition. as humans we should aspire to make the world better for each one of us no matter where we're from. any way, that's not the subject.
People in here are being narrow minded and accusing people from countries like morocco of being narrow minded ... if we want things to change in any country in the world, we should offer it the possibilty of oppenning itself to the world.
Talking about safety ? here's a counter example, do you think that Mexican/Arabic/Muslim people are going to feel safe in the US ? and that is if they are allowed to enjoy the world cup in the US with the Ban and everything.
Let's stop being hypocrites and evaluate the merit of hosting a world cup by each country fairly and then take a decision.
A lot of hypocrisy, Elitism and Selfishness in here. Every country deserves a chance to host the world cup, no matter where it is or if it has the means to do so right now. the world cup is in 8 years, not tomorrow. the countries that people say have the infrastructure right now, well most of them do because they hosted a world cup or an event similar to this one and there's no reason that a "poor" country can't have it. most of these countries are poor mainly because of past events that everyone knows about, i won't go into that as it's not the thread to do so. it's only fair that we try to help each other to re balance things out. the aim of each country shouldn't be to be better than other countries and stay better, it's not a competition. as humans we should aspire to make the world better for each one of us no matter where we're from. any way, that's not the subject.
People in here are being narrow minded and accusing people from countries like morocco of being narrow minded ... if we want things to change in any country in the world, we should offer it the possibilty of oppenning itself to the world.
Talking about safety ? here's a counter example, do you think that Mexican/Arabic/Muslim people are going to feel safe in the US ? and that is if they are allowed to enjoy the world cup in the US with the Ban and everything.
Let's stop being hypocrites and evaluate the merit of hosting a world cup by each country fairly and then take a decision.
Where is it written that "every country should have the right to host a WC" ? Or is it just something you are inventing based on your own views ?
Of course I agree with you on your FIFA stance unfortunately that's not going to change anytime soon and so the choice of host countries will continue under the present system.
There can be no argument with the facts of increased exposure and tourism (both short & long term) and the real benefits to local businesses and improved transport infrastructure, or maybe that's not what you meant ? Of course governments continue to do what governments do, create an unholy mess via bureaucracy and poor management and planning, particularly of stadia, however that isn't an issue confined to 3rd world countries as both the USA and Canada can attest to.
An opinion based on my own views, yes.
I'm afraid that is the world we live in. Is it going to change by ostracising all nations that can't meet current Western ideas of morality (that were themselves only very recently evolved - and in many places still aren't) ? How much better would it be to be inclusive and hope that that in turn leads to greater acceptance. I don't wish to sound pompous but from having lived in 9 countries across 3 continents, over the past 40 years, tolerance of local laws and a greater understanding of the local culture and people, I've seen first hand how inclusiveness breaks down doctrine (in it's wider interpretation) and changes perceptions and acceptance.
Ok, we will have to disagree on this one. I don't believe the awarding of the world cup should be based on how much a bidding country needs the economic boost the WC would bring them. It should be based primarily on whether a country has the infrastructure already in place, the overall quality of the experience for fans, and/or the countries historical link to football.
I'm sick and tired of the World Cup being used for some political point scoring/commercial gain.
If the US is seriously being considered to host it, having hosted it just over 20 years ago, and we're not in the frame, having not hosted it for over 60, then FIFA can feck off.
If the US is seriously being considered to host it, having hosted it just over 20 years ago, and we're not in the frame, having not hosted it for over 60, then FIFA can feck off.
You are ignoring the fact that they rotate federations. If they didn't do that it would take like 30 years to just rotate through the big boys of football. It is in UEFA this year with russia, blame FIFA for being corrupt and taking that money. Last time North America had it was 1994, which is 24 years from right now, and will be 32 years by time 2026 rolls around since NA last had it. I think that is more than fair. The whole point of the joint bid was to make it a North American thing, and not just a US thing.
The bidding process last time was squarely about being paid and bought for. It should have been England and then either US/Australia. Either would have been amazing. Don't really think it was political point scoring per se, maybe heavily about commercial gains if we are talking about individual members or buying votes with favors/bribes.
There's a lot of misinformation about the US in that post.
Tourists are rarely affected by inner city problems like drugs and human trafficking. Don't see how is that at all relevant to traveling football fans or tourists overall.
Inner city?
What exactly is Morocco's rich football history that the US pales in comparison to?
Yes. There are bad areas in the suburbia as well but the majority of crime takes places in the inner city, like Chicago's south side for example.
My point is that tourists won't find themselves in these areas.
Why wouldn't they feel safe in the US?
You do realize that there are hundreds of thousands Mexican/Arabic/Muslim American citizens, right?
Isn't that more or less the same thing?
They will be giving it to someone like Qatar next !!!
Nothing wrong with Morocco as such, I have been many times, great place and have some great friends,
but I understand that overall most countries lose money, can Morocco afford to be in that position.
Despite that I think the Moroccan people would love it, and they would put on a great festival.
Maybe its a good way to improve the Football infrastructure and move them up a step or two,
difficult to put a value on that
I may get some flak for this, but screw it...
While I understand that there have been only 2 official bids to host the 2026 World Cup, I cannot accept the possibility that Morocco will actually host the tournament instead of the United States/Mexico/Canada (I will just say US for the rest of this, as they would host the majority of the games).
For one, Morocco has a population of about 31 million. US Youth soccer programs + high school soccer participation yields roughly 5 million players per year. Not to mention, approximately 16 million Americans have admitted to playing soccer in the past 12 months. In terms of participation and enthusiasm, the United States leads the way.
Now, let's look at the growth of football in the US during the past decade and how much of that growth has contributed to the increased profitability of the game, more specifically, within FIFA. NBC Sports in the USA now pays just under $170 million per year for EPL matches. Fox Sports 1 (FS1) paid more than $400 million for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups. When I was a child there was rarely any football on TV, instead there was the optional and pricey Fox Soccer Channel that had weekly EPL fixtures and the FA Cup. The incredible growth of passionate football fans in the US over the past decade has bolstered the reputation of the game globally, not to mention, indirectly fueled the expansion of domestic leagues in countries such as China and Australia. Being awarded the 2026 World Cup would be global acknowledgement that the US is massively important to the balance sheet of football and FIFA.
The MLS has also been expanding and will soon hit 28 teams. They also have a nice contract with ESPN for broadcasting rights. The US also has plenty of ready, state-of-the-art stadiums in every geographic region.
And let me ask this, what exactly would Morocco be exhibiting as a host nation that the US or Mexico wouldn't? Football's rate of growth in Morocco is easily surpassed by the US, among other nations - based on total participants and revenue via broadcast contracts.
I'm not anti-Morocco by any means, but relative to the US, their bid should not hold water. If China was allowed a bid (not allowed because of Qatar's accepted bid) I would value their attempt more than Morocco's as well - fandom and the financial growth of football is critical. South Africa hosted and did quite well, but I don't think anyone really remembers anything about their contribution to football, nor did the nation undergo a tremendous economic upswing after hosting. I just believe that the US should be rewarded for their massive contributions to the development of the game, especially in the realm where it matters most - spurring the increased value of football with big money contracts.
While I understand that there have been only 2 official bids to host the 2026 World Cup, I cannot accept the possibility that Morocco will actually host the tournament instead of the United States/Mexico/Canada (I will just say US for the rest of this, as they would host the majority of the games).
For one, Morocco has a population of about 31 million. US Youth soccer programs + high school soccer participation yields roughly 5 million players per year. Not to mention, approximately 16 million Americans have admitted to playing soccer in the past 12 months. In terms of participation and enthusiasm, the United States leads the way.
Now, let's look at the growth of football in the US during the past decade and how much of that growth has contributed to the increased profitability of the game, more specifically, within FIFA. NBC Sports in the USA now pays just under $170 million per year for EPL matches. Fox Sports 1 (FS1) paid more than $400 million for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups. When I was a child there was rarely any football on TV, instead there was the optional and pricey Fox Soccer Channel that had weekly EPL fixtures and the FA Cup. The incredible growth of passionate football fans in the US over the past decade has bolstered the reputation of the game globally, not to mention, indirectly fueled the expansion of domestic leagues in countries such as China and Australia. Being awarded the 2026 World Cup would be global acknowledgement that the US is massively important to the balance sheet of football and FIFA.
The MLS has also been expanding and will soon hit 28 teams. They also have a nice contract with ESPN for broadcasting rights. The US also has plenty of ready, state-of-the-art stadiums in every geographic region.
And let me ask this, what exactly would Morocco be exhibiting as a host nation that the US or Mexico wouldn't? Football's rate of growth in Morocco is easily surpassed by the US, among other nations - based on total participants and revenue via broadcast contracts.
I'm not anti-Morocco by any means, but relative to the US, their bid should not hold water. If China was allowed a bid (not allowed because of Qatar's accepted bid) I would value their attempt more than Morocco's as well - fandom and the financial growth of football is critical. South Africa hosted and did quite well, but I don't think anyone really remembers anything about their contribution to football, nor did the nation undergo a tremendous economic upswing after hosting. I just believe that the US should be rewarded for their massive contributions to the development of the game, especially in the realm where it matters most - spurring the increased value of football with big money contracts.
It's hard for me to accept your point of view if you think China has more merit than Morocco, football wise. If it's all about money then the World Cup should probably be in Qatar.
To sum up your post: the USA is a much bigger and profitable market, nobody would deny it.
Everything depends on the decision criteria.
Maybe, some just want to give the African continent a 2nd World Cup and North-Africa its 1st one.
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Then tell me, why does Morocco deserve it more than China? China throws gobs of money at footballers and United even toured there a few years ago. Seem like they deserve it, at least a little, no?
My decision criteria would be this: let the World Cup be a reward for a nation's contribution to the growth of football. Russia and Qatar haven't really done that as much as the US, so it's easy to see why there are allegations of corruption. Brazil was a great host. Additionally, let's throw the whole "let the World Cup be an exhibition of a nation's culture" out the window. Nonsense. People didn't go to Brazil to samba, they went to watch football. Why? Because they love the game and Brazil's 5 World Cup trophies are proof of that.
But football wise, Morocco has done more in football than the US has. You're just talking about money.
Yeah, money makes the world go 'round. See how much Moroccan TV contracts pay for football, or if they can afford the World Cup instead of trying to develop the nation as a whole.
Edit: And by the way, Morocco's absence in the last 4 World Cups, not to mention their best finish in 1986 by getting out of the group stage, really means they've done more than the US. Really?
So, India and China are more deserving
India certainly not, but China is making strides in football. You can't ignore the development of their domestic league, or the explosion of football's popularity there.
Your comment is ignorant of the contributions of Moroccan football to football on the African continent. Sure, that matters little to those who view football as the sum of the top 5 leagues in Europe. Thankfully it's way more than that.
I'm not sure that Brazil's World Cup trophies are a measure of their love of the game.
I know, I forgot to mention that besides their quarter-final appearance in the Africa Cup of Nations in 2017 they last won a medal in the competition in 2004. Not to mention not qualifying in 2010 and being disqualified in 2015. Ghana is more deserving as an African nation. They have a great record in the Cup of Nations.
And please don't call me ignorant, my love of the game goes far beyond European leagues.
Maybe it should read:
People didn't go to Brazil to samba, they went to watch football. Why? Because they love the game and Brazil's 5 World Cup trophies are proof of Brazil's numerous contributions to the game.
Man you're full of shit.
Care to explain?
What has Morocco done in football?