United obsession with physical qualities

Our squad's main weakness is that only a few players can combine pace and/or stamina with great technical ability. I can only think of Varane and Bruno and hence they are the only outfield players who would be in contention to start for City or Pool. Maybe Ronaldo would start for City since they lack a striker.

AWB, Rashford, Fred, McTominay only play due to their physique, they lack the technical ability to be top players. Ten Hag or Poch will not change that.

Players such as Matic, Pogba, Maguire, Ronaldo do not have the legs to be top players.

Telles, Lindelöf, Shaw, Dalot are somewhere in beteween.
 
MadDogg said:
The issue is that we were getting worse under LVG. Most people were somewhat happy with his first season and what he was trying to do, but instead of further improvement we started going backwards. Possession and control is great to have, but not if you become terrified of actually taking risks when the time is right which is how we were playing with LVG.
Click to expand...

I think that assessment is just emotional language. Does anyone know Van Gaal to be something of a manager who is ‘terrified of taking risk’? He’s spent an entire career promoting attacking philosophies.

We were where we were at the time, but I don’t accept that the butterfly of the team he was trying to build was a team scared of attack. I think the defensive/negative football was the expression of where we were in the process. His big problem was he needed to get Rooney out of the team too. But I do feel he would have gotten the team to attack progressively better with some additions, and once we were, it would be from a foundation of new principles that he had spent time building.
 
Surely the fact that we sign the slowest players in key positions like Maguire and Ronaldo shows that we don’t care enough as we should about physical attributes
 
Would you rather Lukaku or Havertz, Firmino or Benteke, Felllaini or Gundogan, Kounde or Maguire, Carrick or Rice, Sancho or Adama
 
Trex said:
This mindset spread to the fan base as well, if you go to the Sancho thread you'll discover fans aren't impressed because he doesn't run like Traore.
Click to expand...

And yet, United did sign Sancho (in fact, we went to quite a bit of trouble to sign him).

There is zero evidence that the club (any authority on the football side who has remained in place over time) have actively pursued players based on their physical rather than technical attributes.

There is also no evidence that our fan base (which is huge and very diverse) prefers any specific type of player with regard to physical attributes.

I'm sorry, but you've just picked and chosen examples randomly.
 
Wouldn't say it's just Utd.

It's very much an English thing.

AWB is a great example, barely an ounce of technical footballing ability, not got a great brain for the game either, yet he was supposed to be winger in PL club's academy. I still cannot understand how he's gotten as far as he has in the game.
.
Power, strength, pashun and guts over skill and technical ability is the way it is. Wayne Rooney is probably one of where both combined to great effect. If only there was a way to have more players like that.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
And yet, United did sign Sancho (in fact, we went to quite a bit of trouble to sign him).

There is zero evidence that the club (any authority on the football side who has remained in place over time) have actively pursued players based on their physical rather than technical attributes.

There is also no evidence that our fan base (which is huge and very diverse) prefers any specific type of player with regard to physical attributes.

I'm sorry, but you've just picked and chosen examples randomly.
Click to expand...
Go on the Sancho thread after the Atm game and read
 
Trex said:
Why do united focus a lot on physical qualities when it comes to signings.
We somehow consider players without pronounced physical qualities like pace, height, strength defensive liabilities and not good enough. Yet we struggle from the lack of qualities this kind of players offer.
This mindset spread to the fan base as well, if you go to the Sancho thread you'll discover fans aren't impressed because he doesn't run like Traore.
The lack of consideration for technical qualities is why we spent so much on the likes of Fred and AWB.
Click to expand...

We dont focus enough on physical qualities. Technical ability without standout physical attributes is basically worthless at the top level nowadays.

Fred is also not a good example of a player with physical attributes. Too small and too weak.
 
Trex said:
Go on the Sancho thread after the Atm game and read
Click to expand...

What I am supposed to learn from that?

That United fans in general prefer speed and/or physicality over technical ability?

And that they have picked up this idea from the club's tendency to buy physical (not technical) players? *

I'm sorry, but no - that doesn't follow at all. Your premise isn't sound in the slightest.

* With at least one notable exception, of course - namely the very player in question.
 
Oranges038 said:
Wouldn't say it's just Utd.

It's very much an English thing.

AWB is a great example, barely an ounce of technical footballing ability, not got a great brain for the game either, yet he was supposed to be winger in PL club's academy. I still cannot understand how he's gotten as far as he has in the game.
.
Power, strength, pashun and guts over skill and technical ability is the way it is. Wayne Rooney is probably one of where both combined to great effect. If only there was a way to have more players like that.
Click to expand...

Again, Aaron Wan-Bissaka doesn’t possess a single one of the attributes that you’ve listed. What an odd figurehead he is for this POV
 
Weird OP. We can’t press for more than 45 BECAUSE we aren’t obsessed enough with physical qualities. Unless by physical qualities you only mean pace and size. Even then it’s silly because Maguire isn’t the largest CB. Sancho isn’t the fastest winger. Dan James wasn’t the largest. Ronaldo isn’t the youngest. Varane isn’t exactly a unit.

what’s the point here?

e: unless op means we don’t prioritise techniqueover such qualities. Then it just means that we are getting players without high physical attributes AND low technical skills. Which just means we are being sold duds
 
Interval said:
Weird OP. We can’t press for more than 45 BECAUSE we aren’t obsessed enough with physical qualities. Unless by physical qualities you only mean pace and size. Even then it’s silly because Maguire isn’t the largest CB. Sancho isn’t the fastest winger. Dan James wasn’t the largest. Ronaldo isn’t the youngest. Varane isn’t exactly a unit.

what’s the point here?

e: unless op means we don’t prioritise techniqueover such qualities. Then it just means that we are getting players without high physical attributes AND low technical skills. Which just means we are being sold duds
Click to expand...
We need people who will not let themselves be bullied, which can be down to their attitude as well as their build but can also be down to positioning, as well as the technical attributes.
 
Splashing cash on the likes of Amad and Sancho in a position where physical attributes are traditionally required contradicts those argument. A team definitely needs a balance of physical qualities, technical qualities and intelligence in order to be successful though. To play at the level we aspire to be, you’d hope that every player possesses at least two of those attributes in abundance but we have too many players who barely have one.
 
Physical qualities? Have you seen our team it's weak as hell. Mctominay is the only bruiser in there really and that's pretty much the only reason he's there. We have Lindelof, Sancho, Rashford, DDG and Bruno all playing regularly in our team. The current version of Ronaldo is also pretty weak so I'd say its actually a weakness for us.

Liverpool is a team with physical qualities. They can run all day but have the strength in key positions also. Once you factor in their technical qualities in addition to this its easy to see why they are so good.
 
OL29 said:
Splashing cash on the likes of Amad and Sancho in a position where physical attributes are traditionally required contradicts those argument. A team definitely needs a balance of physical qualities, technical qualities and intelligence in order to be successful though. To play at the level we aspire to be, you’d hope that every player possesses at least two of those attributes in abundance but we have too many players who barely have one.
Click to expand...
You need physicality in your defenders and at least one central midfielder. I would also say a forward, who will not cower away from challenges either with goalkeepers or defenders.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
What I am supposed to learn from that?

That United fans in general prefer speed and/or physicality over technical ability?

And that they have picked up this idea from the club's tendency to buy physical (not technical) players? *

I'm sorry, but no - that doesn't follow at all. Your premise isn't sound in the slightest.

* With at least one notable exception, of course - namely the very player in question.
Click to expand...
I'll list I most used 11 and name their stand out quality.
De gea- shot stopping (reflex i.e physical attribute)
Maguire-aerial duel (height i.e physical attribute)
Awb- tackling (physical attribute)
Fred- stamina (physical attribute)
Mctominay aerial duel and pashun, (physical quality).
Shaw- he's got a good balance, application might be lacking at times.
Rashford- pace (physical quality)
Sancho- technique (technical attribute)
Ronaldo- hard to say at this stage
Pogba- like shaw well rounded, but also lacks application.
Correct me if you feel this is wrong.
Mentally compare to Madrid, City, Bayern the table toppers in other strong leagues.
Its worst in midfield City have Gundogan, Madrid Modric and Kroos, Bayern Kimmich, PSG Verratti, we have Fred.
We haven't even attempted to sign a single one 9 years since scholes and you don't think its a cultural thing.
 
Just commenting on some of your remarks:

Trex said:
Maguire-aerial duel (height i.e physical attribute)
Click to expand...

He isn't abnormally tall for a CB. And he isn't particularly strong and (certainly not) fast.

Trex said:
De gea- shot stopping (reflex i.e physical attribute)
Click to expand...

This is extremely spurious. Having great reflexes is ubdoubtedly a physical quality. But being a great shot stopper is also about anticipation. And it has nothing to do with being big and strong (which seems to be the general theme). Also, De Gea was signed by Ferguson (did this "obsession" start with him?).

Trex said:
Awb- tackling (physical attribute)
Click to expand...

Tackling ability isn't a physical attribute in any meaningful sense. You need legs, yes - but it's obviously much more about anticipation than pure physique. A big, strong fecker can be a lousy tackler.

Trex said:
Pogba- like shaw well rounded, but also lacks application.
Click to expand...

Why do you think he was signed? This is a player who most reasonable people would say is characterized first and foremost by his technical ability, not by his physique. Do you think Mourinho sanctioned his signing (a world record fee at the time) because he was a big lad? Or do you think the club (who? Woodward?) insisted on paying said record fee because of his physical attributes (which have very little to do with his playing style)?
 
I never said the individuals have all physical attribute, I was talking about their main attribute.
And with regards Pogba and Shaw they are rounded which is a good thing. They just lack application.
Plus my main focus especially was in midfield, don't you think the fact we haven't gone for pure playmaker like a Kroos, Modric, Verratti, Gundogan type in nine years since Scholes a problem.
 
Focus on physical qualities? I see nothing of that. We have the biggest bunch of fannies in the squad that get regularly outrun by the opposition team and starts collectively tiring after 60 mins. It's ridiculous
 
We have no focus on any particular quality, that's been a problem with our recruitment for years.

We have one of the weakest teams physically in the league, easily dominated.
 
Solskjær seemed to focus on this, but few of his signings are actually physically great. Our first team is lacking in physicality, not the other way around

Maguire is slow, not strong - outmuscled by Foden ffs, but he is tall.

Lindelof lacks all those qualities

Awb isn’t particularly fast. He barely kept Grealish behind him. He isn’t tall, nor does he look strong. Poor stamina?

Shaw is strong, but soso pace and not tall. Average to poor stamina, depending on weight.

Fred is nippy, but not strong and not tall. Great stamina.

Pogba is tall and strong, but a little slow. Poor stamina

Bruno is quick enough but not fast, and he is neither strong nor tall. Great stamina

Sancho is quick off the mark, decent top speed. Not tall nor strong. Good stamina.

Rashford is tall and fast and decently strong. Poor stamina? At least workrate.

Ronaldo is fast, tall and strong and also has decent stamina, but he is 37 and chooses when to accelerate carefully.

In conclusion, we are hardly more than average in terms of physicality, probably below
 
People are conflating scouting and team selection with coaching.

We have indeed scouted for and selected players based on more physical qualities, but the level of fitness coaching has been very poor compared to the opposition, and thus our players lose those physical advantages over time.
 
Trex said:
Plus my main focus especially was in midfield, don't you think the fact we haven't gone for pure playmaker like a Kroos, Modric, Verratti, Gundogan type in nine years since Scholes a problem.
Click to expand...

It's debatable whether the players you mention are actually comparable to Scholes (as per type) - but sure, I understand what you mean.

What you seem to suggest (in the OP), though, is that United have shunned a certain type in favour of what you perceive as "physical" players - and there is no evidence for that.

Of course we should have signed Kroos or Verratti (or Gündoğan for that matter) - but there is no evidence that we didn't do that because of a preference for "physical" players.

With regard to Kroos...According to Moyes himself, that fell through because United tried to land Fabregas (hardly a Fellaini type) and Bale at the time...not because he didn't rate Kroos (he has later named him as a player he hugely regrets not getting).

Anyway - your claim is that United have had an "obsession" with physical qualities (over technical ones), yes? That isn't supported by any credible evidence. You're talking about a decade worth of potential transfers, from Moyes to Ole (Ralf) - there is zero basis for making that claim. The most obvious retort to your claim is that United haven't had any actual transfer policy for most of the post-SAF era (maybe all of it), and certainly not one systematically favouring a particular player type.
 
phelans shorts said:
Again, Aaron Wan-Bissaka doesn’t possess a single one of the attributes that you’ve listed. What an odd figurehead he is for this POV
Click to expand...

Goes all the way back to youth football. Guaranteed he was bigger, faster and stronger than most of his age group. Probably the only reason he ever got picked up in the first place.
 
Trex said:
I'll list I most used 11 and name their stand out quality.
De gea- shot stopping (reflex i.e physical attribute)
Maguire-aerial duel (height i.e physical attribute)
Awb- tackling (physical attribute)
Fred- stamina (physical attribute)
Mctominay aerial duel and pashun, (physical quality).
Shaw- he's got a good balance, application might be lacking at times.
Rashford- pace (physical quality)
Sancho- technique (technical attribute)
Ronaldo- hard to say at this stage
Pogba- like shaw well rounded, but also lacks application.
Correct me if you feel this is wrong.
Mentally compare to Madrid, City, Bayern the table toppers in other strong leagues.
Its worst in midfield City have Gundogan, Madrid Modric and Kroos, Bayern Kimmich, PSG Verratti, we have Fred.
We haven't even attempted to sign a single one 9 years since scholes and you don't think its a cultural thing.
Click to expand...
What are you on about? Modric has incredible stamina, which you have labelled as a physical attribute and then Casemiro, or Camavinga?. Bayern? Goretzka in particular is basically Mctominay but better. PSG, Herrera, Gueye, etc. City is fair enough but even then they all have incredible stamina and work rate which you list as a "Physical Attribute". You do realize that a lot of a goalkeepers shot stopping is positioning? And that tackling is not a physical attribute? In fact AWB is probably the worst example you can give from our team because he's not that quick or strong and he definitely doesn't show stamina either. Your whole post is based upon people not watching these teams so they won't be able to call you out on your bollocks.
 
phelans shorts said:
So let me get this straight, United are you blame for something that Crystal Palace *might* have done
Click to expand...

Not sure what your on about really, I never said AWB was anything to do with Utd.

My point was. That this apparent obsession with physicality over technique is not just Man Utd, it is English football, pace, power, strength and general athleticism are prioritised over actual footballing ability especially at youth level. Players stand out because they are physically superior to others in their age group. But when it gets to the point where they are required to actually show some footballing ability they are incapable of it. The fact that a player as technically poor as AWB can get anywhere near a PL academy is a testament to that.

If you want to look at Man Utd, McTominay is one who has come all the way through at Utd, all he has is running, technically he is very poor on the ball. Which is shocking for a guy who's had all his footballing education at one of the biggest clubs in the world.
 
Oranges038 said:
Not sure what your on about really, I never said AWB was anything to do with Utd.

My point was. That this apparent obsession with physicality over technique is not just Man Utd, it is English football, pace, power, strength and general athleticism are prioritised over actual footballing ability especially at youth level. Players stand out because they are physically superior to others in their age group. But when it gets to the point where they are required to actually show some footballing ability they are incapable of it. The fact that a player as technically poor as AWB can get anywhere near a PL academy is a testament to that.

If you want to look at Man Utd, McTominay is one who has come all the way through at Utd, all he has is running, technically he is very poor on the ball. Which is shocking for a guy who's had all his footballing education at one of the biggest clubs in the world.
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
Paul Schoes is one of the most popular United players of all time. Nonsense posts in this thread.
 
Oranges038 said:
Not sure what your on about really, I never said AWB was anything to do with Utd.

My point was. That this apparent obsession with physicality over technique is not just Man Utd, it is English football, pace, power, strength and general athleticism are prioritised over actual footballing ability especially at youth level. Players stand out because they are physically superior to others in their age group. But when it gets to the point where they are required to actually show some footballing ability they are incapable of it. The fact that a player as technically poor as AWB can get anywhere near a PL academy is a testament to that.

If you want to look at Man Utd, McTominay is one who has come all the way through at Utd, all he has is running, technically he is very poor on the ball. Which is shocking for a guy who's had all his footballing education at one of the biggest clubs in the world.
Click to expand...

And a Spanish academy produced Adama Traore, who received all of his football education at one of the biggest clubs in the world.

What utter nonsense
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Paul Scholes is an anomaly in English football, and he came through 30 years ago ffs…

Btw, how was Scholes treated by the England set-up? In comparison to, say, Gerrard and Lampard…?
Click to expand...
Yes and the same goes with Micheal carrick
 
Really? I would honestly say it's the opposite.

Jadon Sancho isn't that fast as far as attackers are concerned.
Maguire is big but slow and immobile.
Pogba is strong but turns very slow.
Ronaldo's age has claimed his pace.
Bruno nor Telles are not very athletic.
Neither is Lindelof.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Paul Scholes is an anomaly in English football, and he came through 30 years ago ffs…

Btw, how was Scholes treated by the England set-up? In comparison to, say, Gerrard and Lampard…?
Click to expand...
You said many United fans are 'size queens' I pointed out that Paul Scholes was one of the most popular players to ever play for us and he was a small midfielder that relied on his brain. I've also read posts in here saying Xavi and Iniesta wouldn't have made at United. It's nonsense.

I don't disagree when it comes to England. We all know England managers were clueless when it came to Scholes and later on Carrick.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.