I'm there
United have made an offer for Daniele Rugani
- Thread starter PvsNP
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He's their version of Januzaj tbh, an excellent young defender whose finding it hard to break in Juve's team. Unfortunately after losing Coman for next to nothing, I doubt Juve will allow this one to go.
I agree and Rugani is perfect to the role. He's got the skills LVG needs, he will provide healthy competition to Jones without actually ruining any chances for him to remain a first teamer (something a 40m rated Laporte would do) + will allow us to move Blind back upfront which is good considering that Carrick will soon need to be replaced
Bayern will pay a total of 28 million Euros.
I'm sure if we sign Rugani or Stones it will be the end of Jones tbh.We can see that LVG's ideal number of CBs are 4 "solid" options (2 left,2 right) and a youth one.Rugani is another right-footer.
I remember similar expectations surrounded the fate of Bonucci and Rannochia, they were thought to be the next big thing as well and they didn't turn out to be the absolute monsters in defence they were promising to be. I wouldn't get too excited abt rugani or romangoli just yet. Barring verratti I haven't seen a potentially world class italian player come out of Italy in recent years. Berrardi too looks off colour this season.
It does get frustrating for management when the fellow returns from injury, plays a few games and his fitness goes into the red zone... again, for the dozenth time.
Don't see how this suits us, them or him.
Considering the fees and hype surrounding Stones than I agree. However Rugani is different. He hasn't yet cemented his place in Juventus defense and I believe he wouldnt mind the role Jones/Smalling had during Rio/Vidic era (ie regular football without actually being regular first teamers) especially since it would probably come with a reasonable pay rise.
Rugani is not cannon fodder like Mcnair or Blackett are but he's certainly not an unmovable force which Jones cant hope to beat.
Jones is better than Stones. If he can get over his injury problems and play consistently like Smalling has this season, he will be the best defender in the league IMO.
He's an excellent young player, with great potential and on low salary. Juventus could develop him and sell him on a much higher fee.
The problem is this part never happened.And no Jones is not better than Stones in terms of talent.Stones is a genuine Rolls Royce of a defender.
Problem is, he can't.
Of course. But they're not getting almost nothing for him.
Woody is doing it FM style.
If they sign a prospect, I don't think so. LVG only has a season and a half left. Chances are his successor won't be obsessed with this left footed centre back nonsense.
I like this story. He's usually a FM legend.
When compared to the amount of money they could make if they developed the player than it is next to nothing. Selling Coman to bring in expensive replacement is not the Juventus way.
Fair point indeed, let's hope the caf is right and that we are buying more than 1 player in January which I sincerely doubt since we very rarely do. Let's see what happens, I hope we snap up Griezmann as soon as possible.
Bonucci is an excellent player, he is arguably in the top 10 when it comes to CBs.
How reliable is the Tweeter linking us to him?
if bonucci is in the tp 10 then there must be serious lack of world class defendres. do you think he belongs in the same company as bergomi gentile nesta baresi maldini cannavaro or even costacurta?? i dont think so
So? What do Ranochhia and Bonucci have to do with Rugani and Romagnoli? It's like saying we should not get excited about Luke Shaw or John Stones just yet because of Kyle Walker and Jack Rodwell. Berardi is looking off color because he's 21 year old, players that age have ups and downs. No? Insigne has been one of the best players in Serie A, and Verratti is the best young central midfielder around. And Bonucci is one the best central defenders in Europe. Helped Juventus reach the European Cup final last season, and was named to the Europa League Team of the Season in the preceding year.
Yes I would say its too early to get excited about shaw and stones as well just as it is about Rugani. There are many who have failed to make the step up. Bonucci is a decent defender but by no means a top class defender like say a thiago Silva. I think your delusional if you think he belongs in that company.(we can talk when he makes the CL team of the year..there are plenty on names on that list that are nowhere to be found now)
As you said young players have ups and downs and as title challenger at home and in Europe we need to sign the finished products (especially in defense) not 21 yr olds who are going to make mistakes as part of their learning curve which cost us in crucial games. Hardly a signing to get excited about. This could just as easily be a planted story to get more game time etc. And by the end of it when we don't sign him (just like peeps did with Pedro) we would be talking about how he isn't that good anyway.
I will never understand this type of argument, Bonucci is playing football in 2015 not 1990, he was a big Italian talent of the 2000s not the 80s.
Dont know if he would move, hasnt he signed til 2020 just last summer? He was happy to stay at Juve and knew the competition from the beginnng, would be surprised if he left so early. He is very highly rated, would take him in a heartbeat though.
Nesta Cannavaro and Maldini played in the 2000s
1. You might want to be careful with using arguments like 'delusional' and suchlike. Read back and see if I, or @JPRouve compared Bonucci to Thiago Silva. Bonucci is one of the best defenders around right now. Whether that says a lot about current defensive standards is immaterial, he should be judged within the framework of his generation, not one of generations gone by, since he isn't playing in the era of Baresi, Bergomi, Maldini.
2. Rugani should be judged on individual merit, not what others did or did not. He looks a special defender with innate defensive awareness, something that's very hard to find these days with artificial devices like zonal marking, and athletes who can recover fast instead of never relenting in the first place. Dunno about you, but Rugani is one of the most exciting defensive signings we could make, and this isn't just because we are being linked with him. I truly believe he has the potential to be an excellent defender, the likes of which we haven't seen since Ferdinand and Nesta.
From July after his season at Empoli and the U-21 European Championship: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/unpopular-opinions-thread.383975/page-61#post-17786370
From Sept: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/aym...al-with-athletic.397124/page-16#post-18071663
3. Yeah, let's not sign young players like Rugani or Laporte, even though their potential might be immense, and the investment could pay massive dividends once we get over the early bumps. Let's not make use of the fact that we have one of the best central defenders around in Chris Smalling to bring through a young partner at the other half. Let's only go for the finished article.
And Bonucci isn't in competition with them, he is one of the best of his generation, a generation that plays differently. Also Gentile, Nesta and Maldini are among the best player ever, it's totally unfair to use them as references.
That would be like comparing Aguero with Di Stefano, Maradona, Messi, Batistuta, Crespo or even Kempes.
Great player
He can play as a right back as well (sometimes)
He sounds like a defender. On that basis alone, sign him.
@Invictus and @JPRouve sorry for the aggressive tone of my previous message
1. Bonucci has a lower overall defensive score than even garay, koscielny, otamendi let alone silva, boateng, ramos, pique, godin and chiellini (squawka). and this was last season which was probably his best in a juve shirt. yes there is a dearth of great CBs and if he is in the top 10 by default then that says nothing about his quality imo. I do think its fair to compare him with his peers. If you can compare messi with maradona then why cant you compare nesta with bonucci. Lets leave this alone for the time being and revisit it at the end of the season and we can compare again through stats if he really falls in the top 10. i sincerely think the likes of koscielny otamendi smalling murillo will have a season to remember and will be counted as top class defenders. this will put bonucci further down in that list.
2. Rugani falls under the same category as Marquinhos or Laporte for me (or as Sule, kongolo, van beek). Potential which could just as likely fizzle away like it has with so many players in the past. Nesta is a great examples of players developing later and becoming world class not all players who are great are earmarked for greatness in their teens. Theres not enough evidence to say that any of the aforementioned players will develop into world beaters. Every time i see Laporte play he makes mistakes. Marquinhos cant get a game and looks too frail to play at CB albeit his tackling and positioning are good. I have seen Rugani play only a few times and he got over run by juve and inter (which probably is the reason for my doubts). Yes he also looks classy and has quite an overawing presence but i have my doubts on the basis of what i have seen.
3. Smalling learnt from Vidic and Rio. He bided his time, played infrequently, learnt from the best and eventually got his place. Gimenez from atletico is another good example of good development regimen, where he played second fiddle before having a breakout season. Lets sign young players but lets have established players they can learn from. Lets not load up on potential and overplay them and give them no one to learn from. thats not a good model for developing players imo. i think rugani isnt gettting game time at juve at the moment precisely for this reason as well. even if we bought this player or someone like john stones we have to have an established mature presence at the back too or we can forget about winning the CL.
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FM Monster.If you finish your paragraph with 'this year' it may make sense. But it's not just about this year is it?
Also, would the mods please ban anyone who mentions FM, it seriously send me straight out of the football forums again.
If LvG is going to buy another right footed CB and not worry about the left footed stuff then I'd ratehr we went for Stones.
Sorry, but I think you will find John Stones make mistakes as well. It is called being young and learning the game. Laporte has improved this season compared to last season. Funny enough the whole of the Bilbao team has now picked up dramtically. Sometimes young players perform better if their team is performing well as well.
i dont mean this year but what about the next or the next. young players need time and dont necessarily need 35 games a season to get better. we wont win the CL if we have rugani starting for us next year.
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yes of course stones makes mistakes and those mistakes could cost us. he should not be playing 35-50 games for united at this stage of his career imo. an established player should be doing that while a young player like stones gets 15-18 starts.
Why not? If they are good enough they should play. Experienced players also make mistakes and tbh some of the best teams in football have usually included a few very exciting and inexperienced young footballers