They say................................................................................. he is a legend
United’s Worst Decisions of the Last 12 Years
- Thread starter ole@thewheel
- Start date
They say................................................................................. he is a legend
In chronological order:
1) not sacking Mourinho after his 2nd season. That’s when we let the toxicity virus get in, which has infected the club ever since.
2) hiring Ole. That’s when we allowed sentiment and emotion to rule our decision making, a trend which has been consistent since then.
3) Not getting rid of Ole quickly. That’s when we let the standards drop, and losing games and writing off entire seasons to ‘rebuild’ became acceptable. We still do that to this very day, and are doing do this very season.
1) not sacking Mourinho after his 2nd season. That’s when we let the toxicity virus get in, which has infected the club ever since.
2) hiring Ole. That’s when we allowed sentiment and emotion to rule our decision making, a trend which has been consistent since then.
3) Not getting rid of Ole quickly. That’s when we let the standards drop, and losing games and writing off entire seasons to ‘rebuild’ became acceptable. We still do that to this very day, and are doing do this very season.
Weirdly I feel the opposite to your post - we shouldn't have sacked Mourinho and back him instead. He would have got us to win the league eventually. Further, having sacked Mourinho, Ole was quite good. Much better than ETH atleast who had been everyone's flavour of the month manager.
Moyes for me, that appointment set the tone and course for how the post-Fergie era would subsequently unfold
Don't buy this i'm afraid. He also appeared to be borderline sabotaging team selection come the end. (and I like him and wanted him in)
1. Appointment of Ed Woodward which started the era of destruction.
2. Appointment of John Murtough as our football director and his 20 disaster signings.
3. Not investing in genetic research (or whichever relevant science) and finding a way to keep Fergie young.
2. Appointment of John Murtough as our football director and his 20 disaster signings.
3. Not investing in genetic research (or whichever relevant science) and finding a way to keep Fergie young.
This was huge imo. Should've got someone who could keep the momentum going and maintain the elite mentality. Imagine someone like Jose following SAF.
Only one for me, hiring ETH who brought in his ex-playerd who doesn't fit EPL.
Its chicken or the egg.
Was the worst decision the original bad decision or was it the following decision that was probably worse but ultimately wouldn't have happened without that original bad decision.
In terms of bad individual moments letting Ancelotti end up at fecking Everton ranks quite high. Even if we were doing (relatively to now) at the moment.
Was the worst decision the original bad decision or was it the following decision that was probably worse but ultimately wouldn't have happened without that original bad decision.
In terms of bad individual moments letting Ancelotti end up at fecking Everton ranks quite high. Even if we were doing (relatively to now) at the moment.
In hind sight, SAF could've worked from home and we'd have had better performances and results.
Getting Mourinho. Though his reign was not sustainable, we actually looked like a serious club during his days.
1. Not separating commercial from footballing operations. Rather than football as mainstay business with commercial revenue as a by product, we did the opposite.
2.Gill & SAF moving out at the same time and handing over control to Woodward
3. "We can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of"
4. Hiring managers diametrically opposite of the previous manager, requiring a squad rebuild each time. Also not having a "United" way of playing.
5. Entertaining egos in dressing room and allowing injured players own control over their recovery giving them both massive contracts to protect asset value (outcome of point 1).
6. Utterly terrible scouting. I mean, VDB and Antony aren't even real footballers.
Key of all:
Under LVG, we got rid of many players who broke through our academy or started from a younger age and who could have been decent rotational or backup players. Welbeck, Evans, Rafael, Cleverley, Januzaj, Will/Michael Keane. Those two years, we also sold almost every veteran who represented the spine of United - Rio, Evra, Vidic, Giggs (who retired), Van Persie, Bebe. For me, LVG era is truly the most disastrous of all periods for the long term damage it did to our culture.
I really wouldn't call extending ETH, not sacking Mourinho earlier, hiring Ole etc big mistakes.
2.Gill & SAF moving out at the same time and handing over control to Woodward
3. "We can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of"
4. Hiring managers diametrically opposite of the previous manager, requiring a squad rebuild each time. Also not having a "United" way of playing.
5. Entertaining egos in dressing room and allowing injured players own control over their recovery giving them both massive contracts to protect asset value (outcome of point 1).
6. Utterly terrible scouting. I mean, VDB and Antony aren't even real footballers.
Key of all:
Under LVG, we got rid of many players who broke through our academy or started from a younger age and who could have been decent rotational or backup players. Welbeck, Evans, Rafael, Cleverley, Januzaj, Will/Michael Keane. Those two years, we also sold almost every veteran who represented the spine of United - Rio, Evra, Vidic, Giggs (who retired), Van Persie, Bebe. For me, LVG era is truly the most disastrous of all periods for the long term damage it did to our culture.
I really wouldn't call extending ETH, not sacking Mourinho earlier, hiring Ole etc big mistakes.
Playing 3-4-2-1
Hiring, and then extending Ten Hag is the biggest one in the last 12 years. He cost us so much money, helped the Glazers plunge us into financial ruin, and then left with a huge payout, all while leaving us with the worst squad of talentless footballers in the history of the club.
The worst decision of all-time however, that would be selling to the parasitic Glazers.
The worst decision of all-time however, that would be selling to the parasitic Glazers.
Feels like something like Channel 5 could do. "The Top 20 reasons why it all went wrong at Manchester United". With opinions from Eamonn Holmes, Olly Murs, Gemma Atkinson and James Nesbitt.
We'd all watch it.
We'd all watch it.
I'd largely agree with all this, although I certainly wouldn't put Moyes on the same level as Woodward. Woodward is (barring the Glazers themselves of course) by far the single biggest reason we're in such a mess both on the field and financially. His incompetence over such a long period of time is what put us in a hole and it'll take years to dig ourselves out of it. His direct replacement (Arnold) proved incapable of doing so, but hopefully we'll start that turn-around now.
Neither Moyes nor the 2013 transfer window were 'that' bad in their own right (purely because we got rid of Moyes before he could do too much damage), but what made them so bad is that they were a sign of things to come.
One change I'd make to your list though is that rather than Rangnick's appointment, the bad decision was that we then got rid of Rangnick entirely instead of keeping him on in the consultancy role that we'd originally agreed on. It completely wasted any good that could have come out of his time as manager. Sure he wasn't exactly PR-friendly with how he said things, but he was correct with pretty much all his criticisms. They weren't some incredible takes that nobody else could see, but the people who came before him and directly after him seemed to ignore them. I have no doubt the squad would be in a much better place if we'd kept him on and taken his recommendations, instead of allowing ETH to spend a ridiculous amount of money while reducing our athleticism even more.
The other terrible decision that I'd add in here is the flip-flop between managers with completely different focuses, most notable Mourinho coming in after LVG. Once again, Mourinho in his own right wasn't 'that' bad of a decision, but coming in after LVG completely wasted the previous two seasons and the training and development that had been done.
This is true and never articulated quite in this way but given that we almost never speak of him or think ill of him as a United fan base speaks volumes. He was just out of his depth and was a poor choice. If anything the blame lies with Alex Ferguson and the other decision makers at the time
As a one off bad decision, the Mason Mount transfer takes some beating.
A player we didn’t need, for a role we didn’t have at the time, in an area if the field we were well stocked. At a time we were crying out to spend the money on a top class centre forward - a gap we still desperately need to fill today. We paid 60m for a player with a horrendous injury record, who was going to be out of contract in 6 months and then upped his salary from 80k to 250k for absolutely no reason.
Every single United fan knew it was a bad deal and an unnecessary transfer, but the club did it anyway. At least with guys like Antony or Van de Beek there was a bit of unknown about the feck up.
A player we didn’t need, for a role we didn’t have at the time, in an area if the field we were well stocked. At a time we were crying out to spend the money on a top class centre forward - a gap we still desperately need to fill today. We paid 60m for a player with a horrendous injury record, who was going to be out of contract in 6 months and then upped his salary from 80k to 250k for absolutely no reason.
Every single United fan knew it was a bad deal and an unnecessary transfer, but the club did it anyway. At least with guys like Antony or Van de Beek there was a bit of unknown about the feck up.
I'm not sure when Woody started as CEO, probably just over 12 years ago, but I believe our worst decision post Fergie, by far, was appointing him and then keeping him there when it was obvious he was out of his depth
That really signalled the Glazers true intentions, if that was even needed, which isn't to make United number 1 on the pitch, but rather a focus on profit.
That really signalled the Glazers true intentions, if that was even needed, which isn't to make United number 1 on the pitch, but rather a focus on profit.
Not upgrading the football infrastructure to a modern one where you aren’t buying players for managers and actually have a football plan and philosophy that allows you to pivot flexibly.
There’s a reason why most clubs can change manager and not regularly need an entire clear out.
A lot of the toxic culture is cultivated by this dysfunction, that includes not offloading under performing and unhappy players (who unsettled things more).
There’s hyper focus on managers is a red herring. I can’t believe after all this time people think managers were our major problem.
There’s a reason why most clubs can change manager and not regularly need an entire clear out.
A lot of the toxic culture is cultivated by this dysfunction, that includes not offloading under performing and unhappy players (who unsettled things more).
There’s hyper focus on managers is a red herring. I can’t believe after all this time people think managers were our major problem.
Yep
Not sure how he’s made it on the OP’s list at all - he was completely correct about the state of the squad. We were wrong not to listen to him and instead just hand it to ETH to make the squad, incredibly, even worse.
You can basically condense this thread into three people
1. Woodward
2. Murtough
3. Ten Hag
That's probably the order I'd put them in with regards to damage done
Woody is way out on top though. No single employee in the history of Man Utd has done more to cripple it is an organisation.
And I don't even buy the idea that you can praise him all that much for making us more commercially successful... With the way football was going, having noodle sponsors and Bunsen burner endorsements was always going to be a thing.
But hey the poor guy once had a firework set off in his garden... Won't someone think of the humanity!!! It's a shame that firework wasn't lodged up his arse instead.
1. Woodward
2. Murtough
3. Ten Hag
That's probably the order I'd put them in with regards to damage done
Woody is way out on top though. No single employee in the history of Man Utd has done more to cripple it is an organisation.
And I don't even buy the idea that you can praise him all that much for making us more commercially successful... With the way football was going, having noodle sponsors and Bunsen burner endorsements was always going to be a thing.
But hey the poor guy once had a firework set off in his garden... Won't someone think of the humanity!!! It's a shame that firework wasn't lodged up his arse instead.
Pogba and Rashford have to be 2 of them.
We signed Mount because ETH was moving to a system that effectively had two 10's, which we continued to play all that season. Most clearly seen by how completely different McTominay's position suddenly was, as instead of playing in midfield (as he always had previously) he was now playing as an attacker.
ETH's decision to play that system was unbelievably stupid, but Mount's purchase was based on that.
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Rooney's delivery was terrible, however Giggsy's was better. Evra nailed it.
How would Mourinho have got us to win the league? Even at his peak he was a short-term manager that dropped off significantly in his third season, and by the point we hired him he was clearly past his best. He'd been declining since his last year at Real, with the issues that he had in the dressing room there seemingly changing his entire mentality in terms of how he interacted with players. Before that he always protected the players as much as he could, happily taking the attention himself. But at that point he changed, and now he throws players under the bus left, right and centre whenever things go wrong to try to protect himself. It's why he's having to step down another tier at every club since then, as not only does his style no longer work but he creates significant problems.
We also know a bunch of the players he wanted to buy in that third season, and almost all of them were just more older players who were on the decline and would have needed replacing in a year or two.
He's always thrown players under the bus, even in his first Chelsea spell. He once substituted Joe Cole right after he scored a goal and said "In Joe's mind, he's done his work and doesn't have to do anything anymore". That's part of who Mouninho is. Joe took that comment positively but players have changed since and become very mentally frail. Imagine saying this to Rashford or Pogba or Lingard or Henderson or Brandon Williams.
You should have hired Mourinho instead of hiring Moyes, that would have set a very different tone.
Moyes
Agree 100% with all of this. Sums it up succinctly.
For Me, David Moyes. He took over a rolls royce. All he had to do was sit back and learn the ropes from the coaches and other staff at the time and let everyone carry on as normal. The football side of things basically ran itself. If it isn't broke it doesn't need fixing! I think Mourinho should have came in straight after Fergie retired.
I think hiring ETH was not a bad thing; the bad thing was letting him pick players and then overpaying on each and everyone of them. If a manager comes in and he wants some relatively obscure number 6, whom he never worked with, it might be because that player has a certain quality that glues the envisioned team together in the desired playing style. If he is just picking all the players he worked with at a lower league then you know something is off. Management should simply not allow that. They should look long term, scout, analyze and then give the coach a few options with a veto right on some.. (veto on older players, no veto on <23y old players). All that should happen with a long term playing style in mind so you don't get wingers while the next coach never played with wingers or a defender who always played with 5 in the back while the next coach plays 4 etc.
The main causes for decline are really the management. Flavor-of-the-month coaches, coaches with playing styles that don't match the squad, overpaying, extremely bad scouting, renewing the wrong players..
The main causes for decline are really the management. Flavor-of-the-month coaches, coaches with playing styles that don't match the squad, overpaying, extremely bad scouting, renewing the wrong players..
Some decisions appear terrible in hindsight but were understandable at the time. eg Ten Hag’s extension, Alexis Sanchez signing, Ronaldo’s return.
The amount of money spent on Antony and Casemiro (and to a lesser extent Mount and Hojlund) was just crazy.
The amount of money spent on Antony and Casemiro (and to a lesser extent Mount and Hojlund) was just crazy.
There was one gigantic, unfathomable, unbelievable mistake which basically culminated in all the mistakes thereafter....and that was appointing Ed Woodward, a man with zero knowledge of running a business, nevermind a football club, as CEO.
United will end-up being a Harvard case study is mismanagement. You can't appoint a chap who's never even run a pet shop and most likely never even followed football prior to his involvement with the club and then essentially allow him to run the club as an almighty leader / dictator for the next decade.
It's one of the things that really baffles me about the Glazers...I don't think they're the evil uber-Capitalists they're made out to be...I think they're confused children who inherited something from their father that they have / had zero idea what to do with. If they HAD been ruthless, savvy business people, we'd actually be miles better off - at least financially, if not on the pitch. The 'asset' has been run into the ground and the football is crap as well!
United will end-up being a Harvard case study is mismanagement. You can't appoint a chap who's never even run a pet shop and most likely never even followed football prior to his involvement with the club and then essentially allow him to run the club as an almighty leader / dictator for the next decade.
It's one of the things that really baffles me about the Glazers...I don't think they're the evil uber-Capitalists they're made out to be...I think they're confused children who inherited something from their father that they have / had zero idea what to do with. If they HAD been ruthless, savvy business people, we'd actually be miles better off - at least financially, if not on the pitch. The 'asset' has been run into the ground and the football is crap as well!
Signing Sancho, Anthony, Onana, Casamiro, Hojlund, Zirkzee.
Selling Elanga for peanuts.
None of the above on Amourin.
Selling Elanga for peanuts.
None of the above on Amourin.
Yep. The Glazers would be much richer if they'd just enforced higher standards (both in performances on the pitch and also financially). It would have allowed them to easily take higher dividends while also increasing the value of the club. Instead they happily allowed incompetence to fester for a decade, to the extent that arguably any other club in the world would have gone bankrupt. Since their old man died the rest of the Glazers have been incompetent businessmen on top of everything else (at least in terms of how they controlled us; no idea if that's true for the rest of their assets).
One thing. Letting SAF retire in 2013. Bad decision.
I think not having a proper succession plan in place for when SAF retired was a big one. Probably should have pulled out all the stops to convince Gill to extend his stay for a bit and help with the transition.
We were instantly a transfer window behind everyone when Moyes and Woodward came in. We lost all our coaching staff and several senior players at once after that. Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra all leaving. Rooney captain when SAF recognised the need to move him on. The culture and environment SAF created practically erased after one season.
We were instantly a transfer window behind everyone when Moyes and Woodward came in. We lost all our coaching staff and several senior players at once after that. Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra all leaving. Rooney captain when SAF recognised the need to move him on. The culture and environment SAF created practically erased after one season.
The start was Moyes which was a bad decision from day 1 of SAF retiring. SAF and Gill leaving in the same summer was a fecking killer to be honest.
Then with no experience at the top level of running a club and player recruitment we made one bad decision after another usually in a massive panic paying huge fees and wages.
If we had a competitive footballing team in place for when SAF retired with the budget of 1 billion it would almost be impossible to be in the position we are now.
You have to remember at that time we was easily one if the biggest clubs in the world we should have been able to hire virtually anybody
Then with no experience at the top level of running a club and player recruitment we made one bad decision after another usually in a massive panic paying huge fees and wages.
If we had a competitive footballing team in place for when SAF retired with the budget of 1 billion it would almost be impossible to be in the position we are now.
You have to remember at that time we was easily one if the biggest clubs in the world we should have been able to hire virtually anybody
Yeah but he also turned out to be shite on either wing anyway.Chased him for two years only to find out he preferred to play on the opposite wing to the one we needed to strengthen.