United’s next manager

Adnan said:
This article from January 2018 gives a good illustration of the man. Below is a excerpt from the article followed by the link to the article.

Tactically he is a disciple of Tuchel, Guardiola and Rangnick. Adopting a 3-1-4-2 formation which can transform into a 3-3-4 or even a 3-1-6 in certain situations depending on the layout of the opposition. The foundations of Hoffenheim’s gameplan are a high press to cause turnovers followed by attacking overloads and exploitation of half-spaces to unbalance defences and create clear openings for their attackers.

The 3-1-4-2 requires a few key components to be successful. A Goalkeeper with good distribution and organisational skills. A deep centre back requiring good technical skills but also adept at reading the game as he will be forced to squeeze vertically or slide horizontally depending on the gaps that appear during Hoffenheim’s defensive press. It is vital the four attackers are flexible positionally with the two central midfielders drifting wide or running beyond in support of the forwards.

https://breakingthelines.com/uncategorized/julian-nagelsmann-the-tactics-behind-a-pioneer/
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Thanks for the information and certainly sounds like a coach with innovative ideas and a progressive playing style.

You would think De Gea wouldn't survive long then if he wants his keeper to be good at distributing and organising his defence in front of him.
 
croadyman said:
Thanks for the information and certainly sounds like a coach with innovative ideas and a progressive playing style.

You would think De Gea wouldn't survive long then if he wants his keeper to be good at distributing and organising his defence in front of him.
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De Gea would be long gone if I'm honest..
 
I hope we are prepared to drop Ole like a sack of potatoes if someone like Pochettino becomes available. If Woodward can sack Van Gaal the day after winning the FA Cup, then it gives me more faith that he is capable of doing what is necessary.
 
Majima said:
I hope we are prepared to drop Ole like a sack of potatoes if someone like Pochettino becomes available. If Woodward can sack Van Gaal the day after winning the FA Cup, then it gives me more faith that he is capable of doing what is necessary.
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I don't think we should operate like that. I was one of many at the time I'm sure, that felt guilty about letting LVG go in the manner in which we did but immediately perked up to someone of Jose's caliber coming in. Frankly, I'm embarrassed with myself and the club. Perhaps moreso in hindsight.

We should be open to sacking Ole irrespective of who is available if his position is untenable following results.
 
I wouldn't kick Nagelsmann out of bed but could see it becoming a Frank de Boer at Crystal Palace situation, our players would really have to buy into his system and would his system work in the EPL.
 
This is so stupid and the club has such a SIMPLE SOLUTION.

We are still huge spenders, we are still a top attraction.

What has changed? We have used for 5+ years DINOSAURS as managers.

The whole world of top clubs are using young, modern coaches, close to 40 years old. We are the ONLY ones using "old school" coaches such as LvG, Mourinho..Ole is not a solution since he was not part of the big leagues where modern ideas are shared, he was outcasted in Norway.

Our attacks are not syncronized, we don't play from the back correctly. If we do, we don't have 10 or 11, or 12 variations of playing from the back like all other top clubs. We are stuck in 2005 or something.

The simple fix? FOR ONCE, hire a Nageslmann, NES, or WHOEVER. A modern coach. We still spend big, we still have good players. The fix is SIMPLE!!!!!!! Then we can focus on the bad scouting and directing. My solution for that is simply hiring the guys at Watford, Hoffenheim or wherever where the job is being well done with small resources.
 
We have tried the chosen one, the best midtable British manager with David Moyes. So no Howe or anyone with that stature for me.

We have tried the philosophy guy with LVG. It was decent, but mainly boring (The most boring period of football played by Manchester United)

We have tried the special one/world class manager, again we failed.

Now we're trying to build from scratch again, building a youthful squad. Haven't failed yet, I guess? Need more time.

So if something really bad happened, like we lose the next 10 games, Ole needs to go and someone needs to be replaced. I would suggest an up and coming young manager.

Would like to have Erik Ten Hag, he would be my first choice. Poch can go and collect his money at Real, PSG, Juve, or whatever.

Erik will build a young squad we're planning to do now, continuing the ground work from Ole's clear out. He can and should comfortably improve our football and we can have a proper project.

The Erik Ten Hag project, seems like a plan to me.
 
meamth said:
So no Howe or anyone with that stature for me.

...

The Erik Ten Hag project, seems like a plan to me.
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What is Eddie Howes stature? What do you know about it? He knows how to win. Twice promoted and clearly gets his team playing to their strengths. He has done fantastic and I’m so surprised he hasn’t and likely will not get the chance to manage a big club.

And why is Ten Hag considered better than Howe by you? I’m quite a big fan of Ten Hag myself but between the two I would literally toss a coin.
 
Volumiza said:
What is Eddie Howes stature? What do you know about it? He knows how to win. Twice promoted and clearly gets his team playing to their strengths. He has done fantastic and I’m so surprised he hasn’t and likely will not get the chance to manage a big club.

And why is Ten Hag considered better than Howe by you? I’m quite a big fan of Ten Hag myself but between the two I would literally toss a coin.
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Because Ten Hag has that CL pedigree, worked with world class youngsters before. Think he can handle wonderkids better than Howe. I think that's good enough of a reason to pick Ten Hag above Howe.
 
Top clubs get top managers. Stop it with the obsession with finding the next "big thing" manager. Stop the obsession with wanting to hire a hipster's choice of manager. Stop the obsession with wanting to find the "next Fergie". Stop it. Times have changed. We simply cannot afford to keep experimenting with this lesser known managers anymore. We are a juggernaut of a club and we should be attracting top class managers only. We can certainly afford it. City and Liverpool did not mess around and hired the top managers available at the time and look where they are now.

10 months on, and I am still baffled as to why we, Manchester United, in a giant hole we already dug ourselves in, decided to hire a manager who manages in the Norwegian league, someone who relegated a club in the PL. We didn't even let Ole finish the season and evaluate. No, we decided to give him a full contract before the end of the season. I just can't comprehend this decision. And yes Ole is a club legend, much credit to his playing days, but I'm sorry I just can't see him ever being a top manager for us. Of course, I would absolutely love it if he proves me wrong.
 
meamth said:
Because Ten Hag has that CL pedigree, worked with world class youngsters before. Think he can handle wonderkids better than Howe. I think that's good enough of a reason to pick Ten Hag above Howe.
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Yep, I get that but I also admire Howes ability to improve a team and get them punching above their weight and pushing up the table. It may have been League 2 and the championship but he knows how to do it and the fact he has Bournemouth stable as a premier league club and get the results he does shows his tactical ability. He’s a winner and knows how to win.

I’m not arguing with you or anything, I wouldn’t be disappointed if we ended up with Ten Hag at all, I just don’t get why anyone would dismiss Eddie Howe.
 
jeff gurr said:
Brought a smile to my face !! I loved Frank when he managed Leicester.
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I loved him for his first few months at United. He had us playing wonderful football despite having to play gangly striker Alan Gowling at CM and utterly hopeless Steve James at Centre Half.
 
The philosophy guy needs a philosophy that works, players who fully buy into it and fit the system and time to implement it.
We are in a hard spot , do we stick with ole and see if he can build a squad and system (no evidence that he can so far) or twist and bring in someone else again.
I would love to see Pochettino at the club as he is a great manager who can build a squad but he comes with issues too, he has never won a trophy and somehow has turned a great spurs squad to a team if bottlers.
For me we need to give ole more time, but I say this mostly because I like him and really want him to succeed. Heart ruling head.
 
Micky Targaryen said:
Top clubs get top managers. Stop it with the obsession with finding the next "big thing" manager. Stop the obsession with wanting to hire a hipster's choice of manager. Stop the obsession with wanting to find the "next Fergie". Stop it. Times have changed. We simply cannot afford to keep experimenting with this lesser known managers anymore. We are a juggernaut of a club and we should be attracting top class managers only. We can certainly afford it. City and Liverpool did not mess around and hired the top managers available at the time and look where they are now.

10 months on, and I am still baffled as to why we, Manchester United, in a giant hole we already dug ourselves in, decided to hire a manager who manages in the Norwegian league, someone who relegated a club in the PL. We didn't even let Ole finish the season and evaluate. No, we decided to give him a full contract before the end of the season. I just can't comprehend this decision. And yes Ole is a club legend, much credit to his playing days, but I'm sorry I just can't see him ever being a top manager for us. Of course, I would absolutely love it if he proves me wrong.
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To be fair Klopp was touted as the next big thing after his Dortmund reign. Not an elite level manager yet.

The questions asked about him whether he can guide big teams to success was a common knowledge.

In fact, when he left Dortmund, the media played like he was in downward curve. He wasn't chased by the big teams around Europe that time.
 
At this stage it really doesn't matter. A placed middle term strategy (with a long term one as well) with a manager, a DOF and players willing to step up is what is needed. I'm not making excuses for Ole. The decision not to replace Lukaku (not ruling out that the Glazers just cashed in on his transfer but I will reserve my judgement until january about that) has bitten him in the arse big time but (as we all have said in one way or another) without the players, structure, strategy and an established vision of how we want to play it will be very hard to blame any future manager for our poor results.
 
meamth said:
To be fair Klopp was touted as the next big thing after his Dortmund reign. Not an elite level manager yet.

The questions asked about him whether he can guide big teams to success was a common knowledge.

In fact, when he left Dortmund, the media played like he was in downward curve. He wasn't chased by the big teams around Europe that time.
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IMO, Klopp was already a top manager when Liverpool appointed him. He already won the Bundesliga twice with Dortmund in a Bayern-dominating era. He brought Dortmund to the Champions League final. That's already a top manager in my books.

I simply can't digest the names being thrown around here like Eddie Howe and the like. I mean, have we not had enough mediocrity already??
 
Micky Targaryen said:
I simply can't digest the names being thrown around here like Eddie Howe and the like. I mean, have we not had enough mediocrity already??
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Just because someone hasn't managed a top team yet doesn't automatically mean they aren't a top manager. Not sure you can level 'mediocre' at Eddie Howe. He's done something that Poch hasn't done ... win trophies. Tactically astute. Clearly a good man-manager.

Just saying dude, I'm not saying we absolutely should go for him but nor should the guy be discounted for top jobs and should absolutley get the chance with one of the big clubs at some point.
 
Micky Targaryen said:
IMO, Klopp was already a top manager when Liverpool appointed him. He already won the Bundesliga twice with Dortmund in a Bayern-dominating era. He brought Dortmund to the Champions League final. That's already a top manager in my books.

I simply can't digest the names being thrown around here like Eddie Howe and the like. I mean, have we not had enough mediocrity already??
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Success in Germany, for some he was already top class manager, but not elite level yet. He certainly is in the next big thing bracket.

Liverpool signed him with the moneyball method, which means Liverpool overlooked other top manager candidates for Klopp.

"On 8 October 2015, Klopp agreed a three-year deal to become Liverpool manager, replacing Brendan Rodgers. According to El País, Liverpool co-owner John W. Henry didn't trust public opinion so he looked for a mathematical method very similar to Moneyball, the approach that Henry used for the Boston Red Sox in guiding them to three World Series wins, which he also owns via Fenway Sports Group.[78] The mathematical model turned out to be that of Cambridge physicist Ian Graham, which was used to select the manager, Klopp, and players essential for Liverpool to win the UEFA Champions League"

I think we should follow that method. Erik Tan Hag looks like the proper moneyball candidate, he is in the upward curve of becoming a top modern manager.
 
We’ve tried “premier league tested and ready to step up” in Moyes. We’ve tried “legend who has history of sorting out big clubs” in LVG.
We’ve tried “guaranteed trophies” in Mourinho.
We’ve tried “club legend who will get the fans and players smiling” in Ole.

May as well try an upcoming hipster manager next I guess.

Christ we’re a mess. What a terribly run club. We have no idea what we’re doing and it’s just constant hit and hope.
 
humdinger said:
We’ve tried “premier league tested and ready to step up” in Moyes. We’ve tried “legend who has history of sorting out big clubs” in LVG.
We’ve tried “guaranteed trophies” in Mourinho.
We’ve tried “club legend who will get the fans and players smiling” in Ole.

May as well try an upcoming hipster manager next I guess.

Christ we’re a mess. What a terribly run club. We have no idea what we’re doing and it’s just constant hit and hope.
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Maybe this time we try to sign J.W. Henry as our CEO, bye Wooward. :lol:

At least Henry got some revolutionary methods such as Moneyball.
 
humdinger said:
We’ve tried “premier league tested and ready to step up” in Moyes. We’ve tried “legend who has history of sorting out big clubs” in LVG.
We’ve tried “guaranteed trophies” in Mourinho.
We’ve tried “club legend who will get the fans and players smiling” in Ole.
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What we've not tried yet is a new CEO

humdinger said:
Christ we’re a mess. What a terribly run club. We have no idea what we’re doing and it’s just constant hit and hope.
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Unfortunately this is very true. I've said before, I'm not actually so bothered about not constantly battling for the trophies as I am about how shambolic and embarrassing we've become and the players we've ended up with.
 
humdinger said:
We’ve tried “premier league tested and ready to step up” in Moyes. We’ve tried “legend who has history of sorting out big clubs” in LVG.
We’ve tried “guaranteed trophies” in Mourinho.
We’ve tried “club legend who will get the fans and players smiling” in Ole.

May as well try an upcoming hipster manager next I guess.

Christ we’re a mess. What a terribly run club. We have no idea what we’re doing and it’s just constant hit and hope.
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That's it and it's not going to improve with Woodward calling the shots. He seems to be too much of an egoist to see that he knows nothing about the football side and seems to love the glamour of it or something.

Unless, between himself and the board, they get in a proper director of football (not Rio/Darren Fletcher or someone else from the old boys club) it'll continue to be scattergun. I just don't understand how they don't realise that with the right structure in place, given the amount of money they are already spending on players, the club would be more successful and they'd make more money than they are now.
 
Don't even want to think about the next manager yet.

The thing is - I thought we were all realistic and prepared for a very difficult season. Now it's here and actually happening people are freaking out.

Patience.
 
red thru&thru said:
So in your view then, it's acceptable for players to have a few drinks after a game and not to worry about their diets too much?
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Well, given how many of our players in recent years have had weight and/or stamina issues, the club don’t seem to do much about it :(
 
If we do replace Ole bring in either:

Nagelsmann + Butler
ETG + VDS

Both could continue the model we’ve started and might play a brand of football we could recognise.
 
Revaulx said:
Well, given how many of our players in recent years have had weight and/or stamina issues, the club don’t seem to do much about it :(
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Exactly. The game has moved on and it's not the same as the era you commented on earlier. Managers alone cannot change the fortunes of a club.
 
simplyared said:
You need to do a little homework my friend. He took over Mainz and Dortmund after Klopp and had a higher success rate than Klopp with both clubs in the Bundesliga. There's is no better tactician than him in modern day football. He started his coaching career at an early age after his playing career was cut short with a serious knee injury. The man oozes passion and experience, he has an attidude about him which is necessary, and something Ole doesn't have or never will have. There is no better fit for Utd than him!
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What are you on about, he barely lasted a season :lol:
 
Tuchel managed Dortmund for 2 seasons -finished 2nd and 3rd in the Bundesliga and won the German Cup.
 
Noc-Z said:
Don't even want to think about the next manager yet.

The thing is - I thought we were all realistic and prepared for a very difficult season. Now it's here and actually happening people are freaking out.

Patience.
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Not all of us have accepted mediocrity.

Ole has to go as soon as possible. We’re tolerating below average players & managers & it needs to stop.
 
I want to see someone who
(1) has a sophisticated understanding of High Press, since Liverpool have shown you can achieve a lot with average players
(2) can then move on to something newer that will take down Pep and Klopp
(3) has a close relationship with a quality DoF who can come here first and prepare the way

No idea who that might be though. It's not Ole, of course. But then if it doesn't tick those boxes, we'll spend the next five years chasing fourth place - and probably failing
 
If we're talking new manager before DoF, new CEO etc., well, may as well appoint Ed Woodward. Results aren't going to change, so why not at least bolster Ed's ego, eh?
 
Mainoldo said:
Yes another Ole out. On a serious note a lot of people say if not Ole who?

Well let’s discuss options, I can’t say I know a lot in regards to managers out there in 2019.. but I know the board aren’t pre planning, they’ll sack him and have no well thought out solution. We should really be planning for the manager who we think is going to take this club forward. Not only in playing style but in club ethos and ‘player development’

So who’s out there is it Allegri; Tunchel; Ten Hag and why are there you’re number one candidate.
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For me it looks as if Ole's job is to revamp the squad. Get rid of deadwood and bring in fresh faces that are of a certain quality + personality fit and have a desire to succeed, which he seems to have done fairly well so far. This is a process that may take 2-3 years. For the 2-3 years that this takes place, United may become less results driven and allow leeway for the long term plan to be executed.

Once the 3 years is up, this is when Woodward an co. will decide whether Ole's results as a manager warrant him remaining as United's manager. In my opinion, he doesn't seem a great coach, so I can't see this happening. However this is where I can see a better coach coming in (such as a Pochettino or Ten Hag) and Ole moving up to a DOF role.
 
Don't get your hopes up for a change anytime soon, the briefings from the club today are that Ole will get 3 years.
 
Majima said:
I hope we are prepared to drop Ole like a sack of potatoes if someone like Pochettino becomes available. If Woodward can sack Van Gaal the day after winning the FA Cup, then it gives me more faith that he is capable of doing what is necessary.
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It was actually the same day, do you remember LVG's presser after the final? He walked in with the cup barely acknowledging it and said "It's OVER!".
 
red thru&thru said:
Exactly. The game has moved on and it's not the same as the era you commented on earlier. Managers alone cannot change the fortunes of a club.
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Oh I quite agree. But the manager needs to push for change in the areas that are falling short if nobody else will.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
Don't get your hopes up for a change anytime soon, the briefings from the club today are that Ole will get 3 years.
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They will do that but if the form gets really worrying I can see them taking action.
 
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