UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Classical Mechanic]

Geographically speaking, rolling out broadband across a country as vast as Australia is going to be completely different and more difficult to doing so in the UK.

The reality is the work will still be carried out by the likes of Openreach, just as it is now... but under public ownership. The current issue is that BT are not interested in expanding the network to areas where it isn't economically beneficial to do so. Not so long ago I was living in a town centre just 100 yards from the main train station and couldn't get fibre broadband. When I contacted Openreach they would just say it was in the pipeline but 3 years later, still nothing. I've just checked and now over 5 years on, still no fibre to that postcode and it has even changed to "we don’t have plans to upgrade your area yet."

I really can't understand how anyone could be against upgrading important infrastructure in this country... do we just want shit things?

I highly doubt that the only answer to fixing the fibre issue is through nationalisation. Do any other countries even run a similar scheme?

My other question is what rules do the EU have around nationalisation of broadband services, is it going to run in conflict with Labour’s plan on Brexit?

 

[Drifter]

Election 2019: Week 2

 

[ZupZup]

I highly doubt that the only answer to fixing the fibre issue is through nationalisation. Do any other countries even run a similar scheme?

My other question is what rules do the EU have around nationalisation of broadband services, is it going to run in conflict with Labour’s plan on Brexit?

Well, the current situation is that the broadband roll-out and advancement in this country has been woeful because the providers are not that interested in doing it. Why waste money with providing broadband to rural areas? Without the Government paying for it, I just don't see it happening. Nationalisation might not be the only answer, but it is an answer. If someone wants to suggest better options, I am all ears. I find it odd to criticise something that will certainly be a massive improvement on the current state of things though.

I don't know enough about other countries but from reading that interview with the former BT CTO, it sounds like the infrastructure creation in Japan and South Korea was Government led. Even now, the Japanese Government are the largest shareholder in NTT who are one of the country's largest providers.

As for the EU, I am not sure. Like most of these things, I expect there's a way around that hurdle were it to present itself. If Labour were to take Openreach into public hands, it's unlikely they would prevent other internet providers using the network which should prevent any issues in that respect.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

 

[EwanI Ted]

Interesting threads. I found this with some of Labour’s policies in 2017, notably the building of social housing. It’s not their aims were bad, or that their plans were without merit. But the plans they offered were often superficial and when you dug into the little detail available there were either unintended consequences or even potential dealbreakers that seemingly hadn’t been considered (based on the interviews with the people presenting the policies). Keen supporters of Labour, naturally, just assume that Labour have what it takes to sort out these problems and thus the details don’t really matter to them. But of course if you aren’t a keen Labour supporter you probably don’t have that faith, and so it’s kind of frustrating because it’s not just that the full impact analysis hasn’t been shared, it appears not to have been done at all. Which doesn’t really give you the faith you’re currently lacking in the policy.

 

[TheGame]

How depressing:

 

[dumbo]

Enduring the campaigning is depressing enough without having to contemplate the inevitable suicide inducing result.

 

[SteveJ]

Jennifer Arcuri: "I’ve kept Boris Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand"

In an outspoken interview with ITV’s Exposure, to be broadcast on Sunday, the tech entrepreneur also tells the journalist John Ware that Boris Johnson has refused to take her phone calls at Downing Street and has cut her off before she could initiate a conversation.

Addressing her words directly to the prime minister, who actively championed her business interests during his time at City Hall while failing to declare their friendship, Arcuri says: “I’ve been nothing but loyal, faithful, supportive, and a true confidante of yours."

“I’ve kept your secrets, and I’ve been your friend. And I don’t understand why you’ve blocked me and ignored me as if I was some fleeting one-night stand or some girl that you picked up at a bar because I wasn’t - and you know that. And I’m terribly heartbroken by the way that you have cast me aside like I am some gremlin ... He should know me well enough to know who I am ... Shame on him for not answering the phone.”

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Sweep that under the carpet till the elections over I reckon.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Only one building has been approved to have its dodgy cladding replaced since Grenfell, the PM has been dipping his wick in someone who has also been thrown taxpayer money, and offering bribes to Farage. But the real news is an argument over a policy that three months ago the Tories proposed for even less money with no accountability to OpenReach to properly implement it.

And Labour were sunk because Brown had the audacity to call some racist cnut a "bigoted woman". Thanks Murdoch.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Jennifer Arcuri: "I’ve kept Boris Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand"

Now, about that £100k+ of public money you gave her Boris...

 

[esmufc07]

And Labour were sunk because Brown had the audacity to call some racist cnut a "bigoted woman". Thanks Murdoch.

 

[T00lsh3d]

I don’t think the Jennifer Arcuri stuff will damage Boris. I mean, it’s Boris. People actively expect him to be knobbing everything possible.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I don’t think the Jennifer Arcuri stuff will damage Boris. I mean, it’s Boris. People actively expect him to be knobbing everything possible.

It's not about his private life. It's about giving tax payers money, public funds to close friends, breaking codes of conduct.

I have no doubt the papers backing Boris will try to frame it as just Boris and his 'knobbing' though. But it is much more.

 

[T00lsh3d]

It's not about his private life. It's about giving tax payers money, public funds to close friends, breaking codes of conduct.

I have no doubt the papers backing Boris will try to frame it as just Boris and his 'knobbing' though. But it is much more.

I understand that, I just don’t think it’ll cut through. Time will tell though

 

[Berbasbullet]

I understand that, I just don’t think it’ll cut through. Time will tell though

It won’t, he has surely done more than enough in his like 4 months as PM where in any normal political time he’d surely need to step down?

He is bullet proof, it’s the cult of personality.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

It won’t, he has surely done more than enough in his like 4 months as PM where in any normal political time he’d surely need to step down?

He is bullet proof, it’s the cult of personality.

It's just a lack of quality journalism. Or a lack of desire to drive the point home. Most media owners are extremely wealthy and would benefit from a dodgy Boris led government.

 

[T00lsh3d]

It won’t, he has surely done more than enough in his like 4 months as PM where in any normal political time he’d surely need to step down?

He is bullet proof, it’s the cult of personality.

It's just a lack of quality journalism. Or a lack of desire to drive the point home. Most media owners are extremely wealthy and would benefit from a dodgy Boris led government.

Lack of impartial media means no public outcry. No public outcry means no judgement. It’s a bit like the law of diminishing returns, as the offences keep
mounting up they lose their weight. Remember a few months ago, being found guilty of misleading the queen? All been forgotten about now.

 

[Jippy]

Lack of impartial media means no public outcry. No public outcry means no judgement. It’s a bit like the law of diminishing returns, as the offences keep
mounting up they lose their weight. Remember a few months ago, being found guilty of misleading the queen? All been forgotten about now.

It's defo not just the media. Visiting my mother and her partner last week (both 70+ massive Brexiteers), they just said 'well all politicians lie...' and deflected anything.
It feels like no-one cares if Peter Sutcliffe is PM, as long as he delivers Brexit.

 

[Buster15]

It's defo not just the media. Visiting my mother and her partner last week (both 70+ massive Brexiteers), they just said 'well all politicians lie...' and deflected anything.
It feels like no-one cares if Peter Sutcliffe is PM, as long as he delivers Brexit.

'Delivers Brexit'...
I wonder if they or anyone else who thinks they understand what 'get Brexit done' actually means.
As an aside, have you noticed that pretty much all the Tories so called policies are broken down to 3 word catch phrases.
It just goes to illustrate how gullible they take us for.
And they are essentially right.

 

[Balljy]

Well, the current situation is that the broadband roll-out and advancement in this country has been woeful because the providers are not that interested in doing it. Why waste money with providing broadband to rural areas? Without the Government paying for it, I just don't see it happening. Nationalisation might not be the only answer, but it is an answer. If someone wants to suggest better options, I am all ears. I find it odd to criticise something that will certainly be a massive improvement on the current state of things though.

Surely it makes more sense to increase the grants and force the companies to use that money in the areas it is intended for? There's already a grant to do exactly this although its not currently enough and increasing it would be far cheaper than nationalising the entire industry. There would have to be proper checks on the areas the money was being used and conditions on the time it takes for it to work properly though.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/45-million-investment-in-rural-broadband

 

[sullydnl]

How depressing:

Well that's grim.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

'Delivers Brexit'...
I wonder if they or anyone else who thinks they understand what 'get Brexit done' actually means.
As an aside, have you noticed that pretty much all the Tories so called policies are broken down to 3 word catch phrases.
It just goes to illustrate how gullible they take us for.
And they are essentially right.

They are absolutely right.
The feckers aren't even hiding it now but they'll win England, and hence the election, at a canter.

 

[Jippy]

'Delivers Brexit'...
I wonder if they or anyone else who thinks they understand what 'get Brexit done' actually means.
As an aside, have you noticed that pretty much all the Tories so called policies are broken down to 3 word catch phrases.
It just goes to illustrate how gullible they take us for.
And they are essentially right.

God knows. Not sure whether Brexit or the fact we're about to hand Johnson a massive majority is the more remarkable feat of stupidity.

 

[NWRed]

Why is this not a much bigger story?

 

[SteveJ]

How can anyone possibly be surprised by any of that? The referendum was obviously dodgy AF from the beginning.

 

[Buster15]

God knows. Not sure whether Brexit or the fact we're about to hand Johnson a massive majority is the more remarkable feat of stupidity.

Both are highly likely to have a bad outcome.
I am always concerned about a government with a large majority. They very quickly became self serving and autocratic. Even worse with someone so untrustworthy as Boris.
I firmly believe that at the end of the Brexit transition period, we will be back in a no deal position.
EDIT.
The only good that can come out of it will be a new leader to replace the hopeless Jeremy Corbyn. But even that is no guarantee of a leader who is actually electable and not simply another Momentum puppet.

 

[SteveJ]

Revealed: ex-KGB agent met Boris Johnson at Italian party
The two met in Italy in April 2018, a month after the attack using the novichok nerve agent in Salisbury, when Johnson, in what appears to be a highly unusual break with protocol, apparently left behind his personal security detail and flew to a lavish party at a palazzo near Perugia hosted by Lebedev’s son Evgeny.

 

[T00lsh3d]

It's defo not just the media. Visiting my mother and her partner last week (both 70+ massive Brexiteers), they just said 'well all politicians lie...' and deflected anything.
It feels like no-one cares if Peter Sutcliffe is PM, as long as he delivers Brexit.

Yeah same, my mothers the same, as is most in that age group in this area.

I honestly think, and I know I’m gonna get battered for this, but it’s massively to do with not having an “acceptable” alternative. There is no way places like Hull would be receptive of a character like Boris if there was a stronger labour leader. That being said I fully expect it to remain lab in my constituency.

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Maticmaker]

So your answer is yes, then, if the planning is correct.

Well you've partially understood at least, planning is a vital, but so too are many other factors, which do not seem to be in place at this time, or in some cases even evidenced at all, which would be required to deem Corbyn's version of Free Broadband for everyone, is potentially achievable. You could apply the same principles to Brexit, the remain view that has been long argued is that the 'Leavers' version of a Unicorn laden Brexit is not potentially achievable and they have been proved right... no unicorns insight in Boris's plan!

 

[Jippy]

Why is this not a much bigger story?

Because Murdoch. It's third on the ST homepage but with a traffic killer of a headline- Revealed: the Russia report.

You know if it was a report damaging to Labour they'd have splashed on it and wrung at least three or four stories out of it.

 

[Sweet Square]

Yeah but I need the rent from my second home and my kid needs to go to private school. Honestly though I'm actually a very caring person.

 

[SteveJ]

Yeah but I need the rent from my second home and my kid needs to go to private school. Honestly though I'm actually a very caring person.

Don't forget the 'aspirational' bit.

 

[Jippy]

Yeah same, my mothers the same, as is most in that age group in this area.

I honestly think, and I know I’m gonna get battered for this, but it’s massively to do with not having an “acceptable” alternative. There is no way places like Hull would be receptive of a character like Boris if there was a stronger labour leader. That being said I fully expect it to remain lab in my constituency.

Hull is a bit of a weird one with Hull East, Prescott's old seat, only around three miles from my mum in David Davis's Haltemprice and Howden constituency, which is super-Tory.
But yeah the likes of Hull and Sunderland voting Johnson is remarkable. Both parties must simultaneously have their worst ever leaders.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

It's defo not just the media. Visiting my mother and her partner last week (both 70+ massive Brexiteers), they just said 'well all politicians lie...' and deflected anything.
It feels like no-one cares if Peter Sutcliffe is PM, as long as he delivers Brexit.

What do you think influenced their opinion? If not the media, then what? Bearing in mind it's been a concerted media effort over a long period of time.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Well that's grim.

To be fair, that's YouGov.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Why is this not a much bigger story?

Because the Tories are suppressing it?

It certainly should be big news.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

How can anyone possibly be surprised by any of that? The referendum was obviously dodgy AF from the beginning.

Not surprised, we knew there were a lot of lies told during the referendum. But to have the additional connections to Russia in black and white should raise serious questions.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Because the Tories are suppressing it?

It certainly should be big news.

Along with the peerage offers, misuse of public funds and lying to the Queen. It's amazing because without a doubt just a single of one them would have destroyed Labour's election chances. But, alas, we live in the age of post truth.