UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Fluctuation0161]

Am I wrong to believe that the US is the UK's biggest Trading Partner aleady ?

Why not take that one step further while the EU and Trump spit at each other - Trump's the sort of loony who'd do a ' better-than-you ' Trade Deal with the UK just to piss off Brussels.


On the other hand....



I keep hearing this.

What exactly will the American companies be taking control of in the NHS ? Is it front line services or back office services or logistics services or what ?

Not being confrontational, just curious because I didn't hear these worries / complaints when German owned DHL was in charge of procurement for the NHS and making a profit on bulk buying and then selling and distributing to the NHS about 50% of everything the NHS buys, from € multi-million body scanners to packets of toilet rolls.

Edited to add that German owned DHL used to ( may still do for all I know ) operate a similar procurement / distrubution service for the reluctant guests staying in HM Prisons.

Trump will use his significant trading power to force the UK to open up to US products and drop (much higher) EU standards. E.g. E numbers, GM good, food grade ingredient quality standards etc. Trump will squeeze us hard! We are a smaller fish than the EU and look what he is trying to do to them.

NB. I'm not using this as an argument to not leave the EU. Just an argument against optimism in a beneficial trade deal with the US.

 

[Fully Fledged]

So who here supports a £30k salary for McDonald’s staff?

It's rather low for London.

 

[Sweet Square]

Another reason to vote Labour

 

[esmufc07]

So who here supports a £30k salary for McDonald’s staff?

Interesting people get up in arms at this but not at the fact CEO pay themselves inflated salaries whilst paying their workers an amount that they struggle to live off.

 

[Fiskey]

There was no need for the problems I listed in the first place.

“Austerity is the idea that the 2008 financial crash was caused by Wolverhampton having too many libraries.” - Alexei Sayle


QUOTE]

I love Varoufakis, have read all his books. I don't understand what that video or that quote has to do with what I'm saying. In 2010 I believe that there had to be austerity, in the sense that welfare budgets had to be cut and government departments had to find out how to become more efficient. Whenever cuts are made there will be people who suffer, and once governments realise who is suffering efforts should be quickly made to rectify the situation. This is what hasn't been done effectively enough since 2015.

Could we also have taken advantage of the low interest rates to invest more? Yes. I'm not saying everything was perfect, just broadly given the scenario what was done and the outcomes can and I believe should be seen as a good if not perfect period of governance.

 

[Rajma]

 

[Classical Mechanic]

To be fair he dealt with that much better than Bojo and Jez have when confronted by hecklers in the street.

 

[P-Nut]

Yet when I said, your post below was short sighted, you asked why... Is this back tracking?

No, not really. At the moment there is no way to pay extra tax, so you get to decide exactly where your excess money goes. If you're willing to pay more tax, you'd have no problem with the government deciding where it goes would you.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Fun little exchange:

Classic. This is why Labour surge in the polls in the short term run up to the election. The media have to be (a little) more balanced and can't get away with only parroting 'Government sources' every time.

The problem is, the coverage in the years before the election was called has been extremely anti Labour (anti Corbyn primarily). But has not faced a similar level of scrutiny. Hence, you get the "I can't vote for Corbyn" brigade.

 

[Grinner]

So who here supports a £30k salary for McDonald’s staff?

Yes because their tactic in the US is to pay people as little as possible so that welfare has to pick up the slack for the staff to be able to exist in a modicum of comfort.

 

[Sweet Square]

I love Varoufakis, have read all his books. I don't understand what that video or that quote has to do with what I'm saying. In 2010 I believe that there had to be austerity, in the sense that welfare budgets had to be cut and government departments had to find out how to become more efficient. Whenever cuts are made there will be people who suffer, and once governments realise who is suffering efforts should be quickly made to rectify the situation. This is what hasn't been done effectively enough since 2015.

I edited the post and put another Varoufakis video in soon after, so you might have missed it but I'll just quote it here -

Varoufakis - Austerity is being used as narrative to conduct class war. In Britain today when you have the lowest percentage of public spending as a proportion of national income of the 70 years, to be talking about reducing the state further when effectively what you're doing is you are reducing taxes like inheritance tax and at the same time you're cutting benefits. Thats class war.

There was never any need to have the welfare budget cut. The only thing the welfare department has become more efficient in, is the suicide rate of poor disable citizens. The one single goal of welfare since the tories took government is to make it as difficult as possible to get welfare.(I can send you links for all of this although its all very depressing).

I honestly don't know how else to put this to you but if you really believe what the tories have done to the welfare state is for the sake of efficiency then as I said the tories have played a blinder on you.

Btw the only way to end the dehumanising and actual evil practices that go on at the DWP is to vote Labour.

 

[sun_tzu]

So who here supports a £30k salary for McDonald’s staff?

Hang on let me think about that
( I.e. let me buy some shares in companies specialising in automisation)
Yup bring on the robots I'm all for it

 

[Sweet Square]

So who here supports a £30k salary for McDonald’s staff?

Denmark seems fine with it.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Hang on let me think about that
( I.e. let me buy some shares in companies specialising in automisation)
Yup bring on the robots I'm all for it

seriously though at least the robot might get your order right.

I mean, how difficult is it to make a plain double bacon triple cheeseburger with just half a portion of ketchup sprinkled with lobster tears ffs

 

[Rolandofgilead]

Hang on let me think about that
( I.e. let me buy some shares in companies specialising in automisation)
Yup bring on the robots I'm all for it

I’ve actually worked in mcdonalds.

While I think £15 an hour is a bit high, I can tell you that the staff do deserve a pay rise. Working nights there and they have to hire bouncers to stop the pissed up morons from tearing the place up.

The job isn’t particularly difficult but no need to criticise anybody that is in work and certainly no need to criticise the staff that are always looked down upon by the people that they serve.

 

[SillyUsername]

Does anyone not? Why would you be against it.

Well the short of it is that currently, a £30k paying job takes more than 10 minutes to learn. Even if such a policy came to pass, which let's be honest, it's not going to, minimum wage being jacked straight up to £15 would simply introduce mass inflation to the economy.

To quote a perfect summary I read elsewhere:

£15/hr would have a massive impact - just not in the way he thinks. He would still be in the same relative position - if everyone's income jumped suddenly, inflation would rocket, rents would shoot up... And matey-boy would be in exactly the same position as he is now.

This is the thing Labour seem to forget - you can't 'eradicate poverty', it's a relative thing. There will always be people who are poorer relative to everyone else, all you do is redefine it, not get rid of it.

 

[rcoobc]

I agree. So Swinson lied when she said she made a mistake in voting with the Torries.

The key point here for the mess we are in is the Economic crisis was brought on by Financial Institutions that gambled...and lost.
But like a bunch of people who had a great party, the bill was given to people who were not even at the party.
The clever trick here is if the gamble had paid off those people who ended up with the bill would not have enjoyed the gains.
The government knew this. Yet instead of holding these institutions responsible the rotten assets were absorbed by the government and transferred to the people.
Those institutions should have been merged/restruttered or even in the short term nationalised to make them lean.

Importantly those same people are Still benefiting from the pain of so many.
- - -
The middle ground choice has disappeared. Drastic measures are needed to bring back the economy to some way where millions do not fall into penury.

The charge of Socialism against Labour is simply not valid.

For those who want to vote Tory/Lib/Dems, they must therefore be honest and say "They are not affected. Therefore they do not care".

Great post RD but I fundamentally disagree with most after the "- - - " (that I added)

The middle ground hasn't disappeared. It's as much there as it ever was, we just have to fight for it (those of us that believe in it).

Yeah we do need drastic measures to prevent people falling into poverty.

Those that vote Lib Dems, many will be doing so because they believe that the left-wing-Labour economic model is flawed as it has been proven to be so time and time again. The Lib Dems are the party of common sense.

I fully support better workers rights - but not never-ending strikes.

I fully support taking back public utilities and public transport into public ownership - but think it needs to be done carefully over time.

I don't support having a "big state". The size of the state should be: Large enough to give us everything we need, but no larger.

I fully support treating the economy with care. It's the economy stupid.

I fully support asking the rich to pay more. I think MBEs and Knighthoods shouldn't be given to rich people if they haven't donated significant amounts of money continuously to charity.

I fully support a carbon tax, but/and we need to first establish it and work through any issues.

It's not fair to throw the accusation that Lib Dem supporters don't care. We do, we just don't have the same political orientation.

 

[Abizzz]

Well the short of it is that currently, a £30k paying job takes more than 10 minutes to learn. Even if such a policy came to pass, which let's be honest, it's not going to, minimum wage being jacked straight up to £15 would simply introduce mass inflation to the economy.

To quote a perfect summary I read elsewhere:

No. Market forces would still be the same after a pay rise for the poorest. Their purchasing power will still be a slice of the total purchasing power and hence have a minimum impact on prices that aren't a result of their direct labor.

It's BS.

 

[SillyUsername]

No. Market forces would still be the same after a pay rise for the poorest. Their purchasing power will still be a slice of the total purchasing power and hence have a minimum impact on prices that aren't a result of their direct labor.

It's BS.

Do you think a plasterer is still going to skim your walls for £150 a day when fast food workers are suddenly on £120?

Are teachers going to remain on £30k when the fast food industry is now paying just as much?

Are the solicitors working on your conveyancing going to stay on £30k now that the fast food industry paying just as much?

Why bother with any form of training when we can all just work in fast food

 

[Abizzz]

Do you think a plasterer is still going to skim your walls for £150 a day when fast food workers are suddenly on £120?

Do you usually tell your trades people the current McDonalds wage when asking them for their price?

Are teachers going to remain on £30k when the fast food industry is now paying just as much?

Let's not act as if conservatives couldn't think of more ways to torture teachers in the future.
Teachers deserve a pay rise anyway.

Are the solicitors working on your conveyancing going to stay on £30k now that the fast food industry paying just as much?

Ought to be replaced by computers anyway. They do less work than McDonalds workers.

Why bother with any form of training when we can all just work in fast food

You say that as if nurses etc. weren't already highly educated people working near McDonalds wages. Why don't they just all quit?

 

[SillyUsername]

Do you usually tell your trades people the current McDonalds wage when asking them for their price?

Do you assume tradesmen are too thick to realise what the minimum wage is and are subsequently going to charge more without me having to tell them?

 

[Abizzz]

Do you assume tradesmen are too thick to realise what the minimum wage is and are subsequently going to charge more without me having to tell them?

No. Their wages will be over or at the £15 but after that the same market forces apply that do now. They aren't just gonna charge £300 if they previously charged £150 because there will be a lot doing it for £160.

If you want to pay them less than £15 then alright, it won't work anymore.

 

[TheGame]

Great thread:

 

[SillyUsername]

No. Their wages will be over or at the £15 but after that the same market forces apply that do now. They aren't just gonna charge £300 if they previously charged £150 because there will be a lot doing it for £160.

If you want to pay them less than £15 then alright, it won't work anymore.

So tradesman aren’t going to increase their prices when the minimum wage just doubled because someone will be prepared to live in the past and just charge the same? What do you base that assumption on?

 

[Abizzz]

So tradesman aren’t going to increase their prices when the minimum wage just doubled because someone will be prepared to live in the past and just charge the same? What do you base that assumption on?

You don't understand markets do you? They aren't going to charge the same because they live in the past, they're going to charge (nearly) the same because they won't get the job if they don't.


Would you go to your employer and ask for double salary if United increased the season tickets by 100%? Would he give you double?

 

[T00lsh3d]

So tradesman aren’t going to increase their prices when the minimum wage just doubled because someone will be prepared to live in the past and just charge the same? What do you base that assumption on?

Of course they will

 

[TheGame]

 

[Cheesy]

So tradesman aren’t going to increase their prices when the minimum wage just doubled because someone will be prepared to live in the past and just charge the same? What do you base that assumption on?

They may do so, but then if someone's willing to undercut them then people will still be able to get tradesmen for decent rates.

By your logic we'd have been better never implementing any sort of minimum or living wage, because it's supposedly impossible for people to be given more money for what they do without things also costing more, which would counteract the greater levels of prosperity we have now, compared to say, a century ago.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Has anyone checked to see if Moggys common sense has failed him and he has trapped himself in his coffin? He’s not been out for ages...

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Do you think a plasterer is still going to skim your walls for £150 a day when fast food workers are suddenly on £120?

Are teachers going to remain on £30k when the fast food industry is now paying just as much?

Are the solicitors working on your conveyancing going to stay on £30k now that the fast food industry paying just as much?

Why bother with any form of training when we can all just work in fast food

A plasterer plasters, a teacher teaches, and a solicitor conveyances. Are you saying we will lose professionals because they’ll all be lining up to work at McDonalds? Or are you saying that everyone will suddenly want more money for doing their job because other people make more money than them? Have you any idea how the free market forces work? Do you know what happened to all the plasterers that refused to take work for less money than they were used to charging because of the flood of cheaper labour from the EU8 countries in 2004? I’ll tell you. They stopped getting work.

Lets not give people a wage they can live on because that might be too much money and that might get them out of the gutter. Or worse other people might want to join them in the gutter

 

[Pexbo]

Well the short of it is that currently, a £30k paying job takes more than 10 minutes to learn. Even if such a policy came to pass, which let's be honest, it's not going to, minimum wage being jacked straight up to £15 would simply introduce mass inflation to the economy.

To quote a perfect summary I read elsewhere:

Inflation? Why would there be inflation?

A rebalancing of wealth from being hoarded by the 1% to better distributed among the population doesn’t equate to inflation.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You don't understand markets do you? They aren't going to charge the same because they live in the past, they're going to charge (nearly) the same because they won't get the job if they don't.


Would you go to your employer and ask for double salary if United increased the season tickets by 100%? Would he give you double?

They may do so, but then if someone's willing to undercut them then people will still be able to get tradesmen for decent rates.

By your logic we'd have been better never implementing any sort of minimum or living wage, because it's supposedly impossible for people to be given more money for what they do without things also costing more, which would counteract the greater levels of prosperity we have now, compared to say, a century ago.

Pretty sure he’s right but he’s expressing it badly. If the minimum wage went up to £15 an hour it would put the operating costs of scores of businesses up massively, Labour is often the largest overhead of a business. In turn they’d have to put up the prices of their products in order to stay profitable which would cause inflation. In turn the cost of living goes up for everyone so tradespeople would have to put up their prices up too. Within companies that have minimum wage workers it would also drive up the wages of their other higher ranking and more qualified employees.

@sun_tzu is right too I think. Businesses would start to invest in automation even more quickly than they already are. It’s often cited as one of the reasons France’s unemployment rate is chronically high, due to the labour laws drove companies to invest in automation which also gives them better productivity than the UK.

Just had a quick look and it appears that Australia’s minimum wage (the highest in the world) is roughly the same, expressed as a % of the average wage, as the UK’s is currently. I’m in bed on the iPad so my workings have been in my head but it would interesting to see if that was a trend.

 

[SillyUsername]

You don't understand markets do you? They aren't going to charge the same because they live in the past, they're going to charge (nearly) the same because they won't get the job if they don't.


Would you go to your employer and ask for double salary if United increased the season tickets by 100%? Would he give you double?

I’m an employer....of tradesman. I understand my sector very well. I’ve never known any decent tradesman with all the equipment, skills and experience necessary work for anything close to the minimum wage. It wouldn’t take very long for the the wage demands of any skilled worker to follow if the minimum wage were to suddenly double, which it won’t, because it’s nonsense.

The fact you’re here, along with others, arguing for it as if 5 years down the line the fast food workers wouldn’t be exactly where they are now because the rest of the economy followed is a rather frightening thought.

 

[Kinsella]

So who here supports a £30k salary for McDonald’s staff?

Why not £40k or £50k?

Does anyone not? Why would you be against it.

Because the likely effect of it would be to price low skilled, inexperienced people out of a job and increase unemployment.

 

[Abizzz]

Pretty sure he’s right but he’s expressing it badly. If the minimum wage went up to £15 an hour it would put the operating costs of scores of businesses up massively, Labour is often the largest overhead of a business. In turn they’d have to put up the prices of their products in order to stay profitable which would cause inflation. In turn the cost of living goes up for everyone so tradespeople would have to put up their prices up too. Within companies that have minimum wage workers it would also drive up the wages of their other higher ranking and more qualified employees.

This were true if the British economy were isolated, self sufficient and all product costs were a direct result of labor costs. As it is your spend is broken up between a lot of different factors, and depending on what it is you're purchasing very little of it actually goes into wages (say rent, energy, non processed food). The businesses that rely heavily on labor costs would be hit... but then again they'd have a lot more potential customers to compensate. 12.5 or 13 might be better/more achievable than 15, but to say things would just increase in price proportionally is wrong in my opinion.

@sun_tzu is right too I think. Businesses would start to invest in automation even more quickly than they already are. It’s often cited as one of the reasons France’s unemployment rate is chronically high because the labour laws drove companies to invest in automation which also gives them better productivity than the UK.

And everyone would be far better off with a higher productivity, the workers producing more with higher productivity can earn and purchase more and those that aren't needed can find different jobs because other industries become competitive with a higher productivity. Any business in it's right mind would rather pay more for higher productivity workers than less for lower because all the other costs for that person remain the same.

I’m an employer....of tradesman. I understand my sector very well. I’ve never known any decent tradesman with all the equipment, skills and experience necessary work for anything close to the minimum wage. It wouldn’t take very long for the the wage demands of any skilled worker to follow if the minimum wage were to suddenly double, which it won’t, because it’s nonsense.

The fact you’re here, along with others, arguing for it as if 5 years down the line the fast food workers wouldn’t be exactly where they are now because the rest of the economy followed is a rather frightening thought.

Why didn't you increase your employees pay in line with bankers pay then?

 

[Ultimate Grib]

I’m an employer....of tradesman. I understand my sector very well. I’ve never known any decent tradesman with all the equipment, skills and experience necessary work for anything close to the minimum wage. It wouldn’t take very long for the the wage demands of any skilled worker to follow if the minimum wage were to suddenly double, which it won’t, because it’s nonsense.

The fact you’re here, along with others, arguing for it as if 5 years down the line the fast food workers wouldn’t be exactly where they are now because the rest of the economy followed is a rather frightening thought.

Why does minimum wage have anything to do with what your tradesman earn? You bid for a job based on cost and profit not on what other professions are earning, that has never had anything to do with it until now so why would things change?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This were true if the British economy were isolated, self sufficient and all product costs were a direct result of labor costs. As it is your spend is broken up between a lot of different factors, and depending on what it is you're purchasing very little of it actually goes into wages (say rent, energy, non processed food). The businesses that rely heavily on labor costs would be hit... but then again they'd have a lot more potential customers to compensate. 12.5 or 13 might be better/more achievable than 15, but to say things would just increase in price proportionally is wrong in my opinion.


And everyone would be far better off with a higher productivity, the workers producing more with higher productivity can earn and purchase more and those that aren't needed can find different jobs because other industries become competitive with a higher productivity. Any business in it's right mind would rather pay more for higher productivity workers than less for lower because all the other costs for that person remain the same.



Why didn't you increase your employees pay in line with bankers pay then?

I’m not saying all the costs come from labour but generally labour costs are one of, if not the single biggest overhead in a business. Having a quick glance at some sources and a higher minimum wage is thought to cause inflation because of higher operating costs for businesses but also because of the higher spending power of earners. If inflation occurs then tradespeople will put their prices up to maintain their standard of living.

 

[Cheesy]

Pretty sure he’s right but he’s expressing it badly. If the minimum wage went up to £15 an hour it would put the operating costs of scores of businesses up massively, Labour is often the largest overhead of a business. In turn they’d have to put up the prices of their products in order to stay profitable which would cause inflation. In turn the cost of living goes up for everyone so tradespeople would have to put up their prices up too. Within companies that have minimum wage workers it would also drive up the wages of their other higher ranking and more qualified employees.

@sun_tzu is right too I think. Businesses would start to invest in automation even more quickly than they already are. It’s often cited as one of the reasons France’s unemployment rate is chronically high, due to the labour laws drove companies to invest in automation which also gives them better productivity than the UK.

Just had a quick look and it appears that Australia’s minimum wage (the highest in the world) is roughly the same, expressed as a % of the average wage, as the UK’s is currently. I’m in bed on the iPad so my workings have been in my head but it would interesting to see if that was a trend.

It would surely depend on the business. McDonald's will obviously be hit if they increase the wage of the average employer, but then it's also a cost McDonald's will be able to afford due to the sheer amount the company is worth, and there's a solid argument is something they should be paying to their employees if they're worth more. Presuming wage increases are gradual and don't come to all companies at the same time, I imagine there'd be a potential economic boost that could come from some companies giving employees more, insofar as people would have more to spend on the economy which could thereby fuel growth. I agree it's obviously not as simple as just giving people more money and assuming they'll be fine from there, but in the past history has shown there are ways in which you can boost the wages of unskilled workers while benefiting the economy in the long-term.

On automation, it's largely an inevitability anyway. I'd presume a Labour government would look to counteract this by looking at initiatives such as UBI to provide for people who aren't working. In the long-term it's a fairly reasonable goal that if you have less jobs, you have more people working a lesser number of hours (4 day-week idea etc) with the government providing people with a certain amount of income as well through various schemes, UBI or otherwise. After all, if businesses want to automate, they'll still need customers; a supermarket cutting down on their number of employees ultimately doesn't benefit them if no one has money to pay them for goods.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Pretty sure he’s right but he’s expressing it badly. If the minimum wage went up to £15 an hour it would put the operating costs of scores of businesses up massively, Labour is often the largest overhead of a business. In turn they’d have to put up the prices of their products in order to stay profitable which would cause inflation. In turn the cost of living goes up for everyone so tradespeople would have to put up their prices up too. Within companies that have minimum wage workers it would also drive up the wages of their other higher ranking and more qualified employees.

@sun_tzu is right too I think. Businesses would start to invest in automation even more quickly than they already are. It’s often cited as one of the reasons France’s unemployment rate is chronically high, due to the labour laws drove companies to invest in automation which also gives them better productivity than the UK.

Just had a quick look and it appears that Australia’s minimum wage (the highest in the world) is roughly the same, expressed as a % of the average wage, as the UK’s is currently. I’m in bed on the iPad so my workings have been in my head but it would interesting to see if that was a trend.

It’s a moot point we’re talking about why you wouldn’t want people to earn x amount of money not how realistic it is to double wages overnight.

EDIT: You can see below villian hitting the nail on the head.

 

[villain]

Do you think a plasterer is still going to skim your walls for £150 a day when fast food workers are suddenly on £120?

Are teachers going to remain on £30k when the fast food industry is now paying just as much?

Are the solicitors working on your conveyancing going to stay on £30k now that the fast food industry paying just as much?

Why bother with any form of training when we can all just work in fast food

What do any of these professions & their salaries have to do with a potential minimum wage increase?

Teachers deserve to be paid more, nurses deserve to be paid more, fire fighters etc - McDonald's employees being paid more doesn't stop any of these things happening from being possible also. But it would lead to an increase in social mobility - that means more people spend more money to buy more things, travel more etc which leads to more money in the economy, less money being spent on benefits & government assistance, more home-owners etc.

Low-skilled, low-paid jobs & high-skilled, low-paid jobs can (& should) both earn more. This attitude that McDonald's workers don't deserve to earn more reeks (to me) of feeling threatened that people that you see as below you (i.e. the poor & uneducated), earning an amount that's similar to what you earn - and rationalising that with groups of people you don't see as below you (i.e. teachers & nurses) also being paid a low amount, therefore how dare the poor & uneducated demand more - i'm speaking generally, not aimed at you specifically.

Also yes, if more people see working in McDonalds as a viable option for work, with a low return on investment - in comparison to say going to University, or doing a trade - that makes the market more competitive. The grad market for example is ridiculous, students pay minimum 9k a year, rack up 40k worth of student loans, to get a job that pays £16-23k, often not in the field they studied at university and their wage stagnates for years - simply because grad schemes have 100's of students applying for 5 positions. That market isn't sustainable, and is part of the reason why millennials have been unable to buy houses.
edit - as an example, when I worked at Apple part-time job during Uni a lot of people in full-time were earning 28-35k (+ v good benefits), and were able to support their family, buy a house, go travelling etc, in a retail job, as opposed to going to university. More people should see this as a viable option, and if you increase minimum wage, it's possible to do that, and put less stress on the job market. That leads to higher productivity, more motivated employees, people pursuing careers because they enjoy it & have a passion for it.

All this, plus plenty more are reasons for increasing minimum wage. Wages have been stagnated for the best part of a decade under the Tories - it's created a huge gap in wealth, inflation hasn't slowed down either so the poorest in society have continued to stay poor, while the rich have continued to earn more.