UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%

  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%

  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%

  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%

  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%

  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%

  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%
  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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Not been online much the past 2-3 days, but, glancing through the thread -

The hand-wringing from the self-proclaimed centrists here about the non-attack by Labour supporters. I think the one thing centrists love above all is discourse about discourse. It's all about the tone, and the "atmosphere." Nothing about the fact that a lie was started from the govening party and spread by the head of the impartial, govt-funded news agency, it is all about reasonable doubts and menacing subtexts - the text itself be damned. I think it reveals a lot about the inner biases of the centrists that their focus is on these things rather than substance.

Also the massive hand-wringing about "evil" Tories or otherwise. I think votes are an indication of values and the right is certainly not shy of attaching labels - traitor, fool, idiot, naive, terrorist sympathiser - to Corbyn supporters, labels that tally with their view of the world and what matters in that. To an extent, I think most people here have laughed off these labels with the exception of traitor in the context of the MP's murder. For the left, which views poverty as an evil to be destroyed urgently - people who perpetuate or extend that evil will be labeled accordingly. Why the Tories here cannot similarly laugh off that label maybe points to a culture which has made them internalise being evil as being worse than a traitor or a naive fool. There are actual political differences between the 2 parties, differences affecting life and death today and for future generations, it is no point pretending this is some debate club with no consequences.

Mr Pigeon said:
Is that really their weighting? 90% of 85+ year olds? Not being funny but unless they're bussing people in that number seems absolutely incredible.
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I couldn't believe it either so I checked the yougov pdfs, and it's true.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/uk714vkjy3/MRP_Tables_2019_Election_Public_Release (5).pdf
(I haven't checked the pic on the left but it looks roughly correct)
 
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The lack of posts in the last 20 minutes is astonishing. Where's your enthusiasm? Do you want a Tory Government?! Because this is how you get one.
 
Rolandofgilead said:
This whole thing is utterly depressing to be honest.

Boris and the Tories are so dishonest but it doesn’t matter what they do they will still win a majority. I was hoping against hope that Boris will feck up today, but he’s spent the day hiding in kitchen hardware.

Utterly pathetic.
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The man is a joke. A lying dishonest and potentially dangerous joke. Totally unfit to lead. Ladies and gents, our new prime minister, Mr Bumble.
 
SteveJ said:
SAMMSKY: "Hello, is that the police?"
BLOKE: "No, it's Wang's Fish Bar."
SAMMSKY: "I'd like you to arrest Laura Kuenssberg. Also, sausage in batter and chips."
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That is about as funny as running out of toilet paper.
 
The Brexit candidate with his 'racism of opinion' gripe is slightly odd.

'There’s a new kind of racism about.
It’s not for colour, it’s not for creed or race, and it’s not for religion - it’s for opinion. It’s racism of opinion.
You are then charged with being of this kind of opinion, and you’re ostracised.
People turn around and tell you that your opinion’s not worth anything, you’re charged with being different to other people.'
 
I’m late to the party, but how does Corbyn propose to pay for this massive spending? By increasing the taxes on the relatively wealthier (including the middle class)? This is an honest question.
 
Buster15 said:
That is about as funny as running out of toilet paper.
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Who in the absolute FECK are you to say that to my boy Steve? You think this is a game?! Show some god damn respect. That man killed fifteen soldiers in Germany and single handedly sabotaged an enemy fuel depot. And did he ever get the recognition he deserved for it? No. He had to cut his holiday short and Merkel put him on a No Fly list.
 
Shamwow said:
Remind me which party decided to make the country have a Brexit referendum with zero plan of what to do if remain lost?
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Same nasty party that trashed public services while pumping billions into the banks.
Same nasty party that completely mismanaged the Brexit process despite saying it would be the simplest thing ever. And then managing to blame everyone else for their failures.
Same nasty party that openly lied to the Queen and decided to shut down parliament for 5 weeks on the lie that it was necessary to deliver a Queens Speach, then managed to do it without a lengthy shutdown.
Same nasty party who has made the electorate accept that lying is a price to pay for winning an election.
 
Damien said:
Mentions in my post above: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/uk-...ies-339-seats-labour-231.450424/post-25034333
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Thanks mate. I like the part where they’ll stop tax evasion (which is a crime and illegal) by closing loopholes (which implies it’s tax avoidance which is legal that they’re trying to stop).

I personally don’t see that as feasible for a few reasons. My main gripe though is what’s to stop the richest 5% from economically emigrating? At which point the middle class will have to be taxed to deliver the policies.
Further, with Brexit looming, raising corporate tax may further stunt the economy. Is his approach to Brexit to negotiate a new deal, and then put forward a referendum with the choice of Corbyn deal vs revoke A50 (this may help with the corporate tax issue)?
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Who in the absolute FECK are you to say that to my boy Steve? You think this is a game?! Show some god damn respect. That man killed fifteen soldiers in Germany and single handedly sabotaged an enemy fuel depot. And did he ever get the recognition he deserved for it? No. He had to cut his holiday short and Merkel put him on a No Fly list.
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I have no idea what you are taking about.
 
Have you noticed how ALL the Brexshiteers have vanished this election. Mogg and Bridgen obviously for their huge idiocy at the start of the election but Baker & Co. have been thrown at a bottom of a well completely hidden. I’ve not seen Steve Baker do one bit of media all election and he’s not been welcomed at his constiuency hustings either being booed and jeered. Anyone in Wycombe make sure you vote tactically, this climate denying cnut needs to go.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Has anyone told him Father Christmas doesn't actually exist?

Damn, now I've spoilt it for all the kids on here.
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Oh come on.
You will be trying to tell me that Unicorns don't exist either.
Next will be the Tooth Fairy.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
Have you noticed how ALL the Brexshiteers have vanished this election. Mogg and Bridgen obviously for their huge idiocy at the start of the election but Baker & Co. have been thrown at a bottom of a well completely hidden. I’ve not seen Steve Baker do one bit of media all election and he’s not been welcomed at his constiuency hustings either being booed and jeered. Anyone in Wycombe make sure you vote tactically, this climate denying cnut needs to go.
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It's a shame we haven't heard more from Mark Frenchy.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
Have you noticed how ALL the Brexshiteers have vanished this election. Mogg and Bridgen obviously for their huge idiocy at the start of the election but Baker & Co. have been thrown at a bottom of a well completely hidden. I’ve not seen Steve Baker do one bit of media all election and he’s not been welcomed at his constiuency hustings either being booed and jeered. Anyone in Wycombe make sure you vote tactically, this climate denying cnut needs to go.
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Mark Francois too, now you mention. Saying that, haven't seen much of Labour's front bench. Abbott in the same well. Even Starmer and Thornberry have vanished
 
Paul the Wolf said:
No it's still the same stupid nonsense as the Tories.

McDonnell also believes Labour are going to win a majority, says it all really.
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So what did you expect him to say. He wasn't going to publicly agree with his shadow housing minister was he.
 
berbatrick said:
I couldn't believe it either so I checked the yougov pdfs, and it's true.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/uk714vkjy3/MRP_Tables_2019_Election_Public_Release (5).pdf
(I haven't checked the pic on the left but it looks roughly correct)
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The picture on the left is from a House of Commons Library briefing, you can tell from the colours. But they got their stats from the British Election Study. What's odd is that the HoC library have changed the figures "based on actual turnout". But in doing so they've ended up disagreeing with the BES about whether there was a jump in turnout or not (as referenced by YouGov). Id take the Hoc figures with a grain of salt, but I agree the YouGov figures look way wrong.
 
Jippy said:
Saying that, haven't seen much of Labour's front bench. Abbott in the same well. Even Starmer and Thornberry have vanished
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Isn't Starmer sort of an asset to the Labour Party given his potential leadership credentials. He's disappeared from a media perspective since the Tories made a stitch up video about him, having said that he has been all over the country supporting other candidates.

Instead of those guys we seem to have an overload of Burgon and Hancock.
 
Mr P said:
Who in the absolute FECK are you to say that to my boy Steve? You think this is a game?! Show some god damn respect. That man killed fifteen soldiers in Germany and single handedly sabotaged an enemy fuel depot. And did he ever get the recognition he deserved for it? No. He had to cut his holiday short and Merkel put him on a No Fly list.
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Buster15 said:
I have no idea what you are taking about.
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:lol:
 
Jippy said:
Mark Francois too, now you mention. Saying that, haven't seen much of Labour's front bench. Abbott in the same well. Even Starmer and Thornberry have vanished
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Abbot because she's disastrous and is seen largely as a laughing stock. I'd imagine Thornberry and Starmer have been sidelined because they are vocal about remaining in the EU, and I think Labour have largely been non-committal on the issue in this election in order to try and capture votes from both sides.
 
Dobba said:
So, today's Politics Live is no longer available on BBC iPlayer :lol:
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A lot of Kuessenbergs VDO’s of said interview now also ‘unviewable’ on Twitter. Massive tidy up going on. I think she is fcuked.
 
sammsky1 said:
A lot of Kuessenbergs VDO’s of said interview now also ‘unviewable’ on Twitter. Massive tidy up going on. I think she is fcuked.
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She hasn't tweeted in five hours(!)
 
Buster15 said:
So what did you expect him to say. He wasn't going to publicly agree with his shadow housing minister was he.
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If McDonnell said he think they won't get a majority, front pages tomorrow are all about that and Paul would be among the first to call McDonnell an idiot for giving them the ammunition.
 
Buster15 said:
Same nasty party that trashed public services while pumping billions into the banks.
Same nasty party that completely mismanaged the Brexit process despite saying it would be the simplest thing ever. And then managing to blame everyone else for their failures.
Same nasty party that openly lied to the Queen and decided to shut down parliament for 5 weeks on the lie that it was necessary to deliver a Queens Speach, then managed to do it without a lengthy shutdown.
Same nasty party who has made the electorate accept that lying is a price to pay for winning an election.
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It was Brown's government that pumped billions into the banks.
 
Shamwow said:
If McDonnell said he think they won't get a majority, front pages tomorrow are all about that and Paul would be among the first to call McDonnell an idiot for giving them the ammunition.
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Correct.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Isn't Starmer sort of an asset to the Labour Party given his potential leadership credentials. He's disappeared from a media perspective since the Tories made a stitch up video about him, having said that he has been all over the country supporting other candidates.

Instead of those guys we seem to have an overload of Burgon and Hancock.
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Starmer does have a bit of charisma at least.
Hancock almost makes his own stitch up videos he's so bad.

esmufc07 said:
Abbot because she's disastrous and is seen largely as a laughing stock. I'd imagine Thornberry and Starmer have been sidelined because they are vocal about remaining in the EU, and I think Labour have largely been non-committal on the issue in this election in order to try and capture votes from both sides.
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Do they just get told to stay indoors and close the curtains then? You can imagine the shitstorm if Abbott was caught on a beach holiday now.
 
Traub said:
Thanks mate. I like the part where they’ll stop tax evasion (which is a crime and illegal) by closing loopholes (which implies it’s tax avoidance which is legal that they’re trying to stop).

I personally don’t see that as feasible for a few reasons. My main gripe though is what’s to stop the richest 5% from economically emigrating? At which point the middle class will have to be taxed to deliver the policies.
Further, with Brexit looming, raising corporate tax may further stunt the economy. Is his approach to Brexit to negotiate a new deal, and then put forward a referendum with the choice of Corbyn deal vs revoke A50 (this may help with the corporate tax issue)?
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most of the top 1% are far from rich (£80-90k). We are talking about doctors, head teachers, etc.

These types of professionals can’t afford to move offshore, as they are not rich.

it won’t take a high proportion of the top 1% to move on and take their capital with them and the tax take will be a lot lower. Makes great headlines to ‘tax the rich’ but it the reality is more tax comes from the 1% than from the 99%.
 
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