Burgon just got proper mugged off then.
UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80
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It was too good to be true that he would pass the whole debate without a signature moment. Thankfully it wasn’t more than that. Overall not a bad performance.
Hmm I'm not so sure about that, I think he may have put some potential voters off. Labour should've sent Rebecca Long-Bailey again or Emily Thornberry.
That smirk
I have to say I've been impressed by Adam Price in the debates I've seen so far. Fairly balanced in his criticisms to both sides and seems to actually want change, rather than merely looking to score cheap political points at every opportunity.
The issue with Burgon is he's not very likable is he? Comes over so fake and smug. Not sure why Labour send him on these things.
Shame I don't live in Wales, Plaid would be such an easy party to vote for.
Lots around my area either don't like them or barely know they exist. It's odd, but I think has much to do with Leanne Wood not coming across brilliantly in the past.
Price has done brilliantly in the debates so far and seems a big step in the right direction on the leader front. Here's hoping plaid pick up some steam in the coming years.
the iPhone comment was clearly sarcasm...
The Labour Party could win me over, I’m firmly in the middle group of the political spectrum - and like it or not, the reality is that Labour have to win people like me to get power. Otherwise, you have a protest group “fighting the good fight” but with no prospect of being able to influence anything.
whilst I’m a landlord, I also work with the NHS, so I have a particular interest in that aspect, and whilst the cuts have been severe, I believe that if we look at where we are now - labour will be a worse option for the country.
It appears to me that they have put out a survey of what people might want and tried to go with populist policies with no thought or analysis behind it. A 4 day week, re-nationalisation and stealing private property (seems to be now dropped) are three that just won’t work.
mots like asking the Caf who Utd should be buying in the next transfer window and just doing it (admittedly, not the best example given the state of our squad!!! Although you get my point if I substituted in Liverpool or City[unfortunately]).
The issue with Burgon is that, in a mirror image of someone like Patel being Home Secretary, it shows how much talent has been cast aside in the interests of loyalty to the leader.
You say this but..........
Sarcasm again ?
Economists and academics back Labour spending plans
https://www.ft.com/content/d29b4cbe-0fa4-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae
But hey what do they know, right ? You are after all a well informed voter.
A 4 day week was firstly a goal to aim towards in the future(Some unions in German have won a 4 working week btw and liberals used to think something similar, although in fairness a certain Mr Keynes wasn't a fan of landlords), renationalising is literally common place for most developed countries. What labour intend to do wouldn't even put Britain anywhere near the top in terms of state involvement. Labour are offering a standard model of 21st century social democracy, they aren't offering any type of socialism(Once again you've shown just how ill-informed you are and also how right wing ''centrist'' tories really are).
Honestly it would less time consuming to say your voting tory because its in your interest, rather than typing this sort of shite(Which was the whole point of my last post).
No clearly not. Labour proposed a policy where a tenant can force a landlord to sell them their property, with no consideration of costs - for example what happens if the landlord has a 10 year fixed rate mortgage with 5% penalties if they sell, who pay for that? Its completely unworkable
so are we not allowed an opinion joe, or should we all just acquiesce to the opinion of an article you quote? Look, I have not resorted to name calling and quoting of articles that support my opinion to try and ratify my perspective. Let’s agree that we have different opinions and perspectives. As an economist, I can quote a good economics joke (... yes there are many!). For example the Lib Dems have predicted 10 out of the last 2 recessions.
Or, What do you call an economist that makes a prediction? Wrong!
I am a centralist, not right wing.
It’s in the interest of the country. It’s fine to disagree with me, as many will do (we are a divided country), but making assumptions about me and my opinion merely details the debate. If we had a centralist proposal, I would vote for them, and as I’ve said previously I’ve voted labour, but I firmly believe this labour incarnation would be even worse than this Tory government.
Rishi Sunak describing himself as an example of Britain's meritocracy because his parents are migrants.
What he doesn't mention is that he went to a £40k a year school and is married to the daughter of a billionaire venture capitalist, whom he worked for before becoming an MP.
What he doesn't mention is that he went to a £40k a year school and is married to the daughter of a billionaire venture capitalist, whom he worked for before becoming an MP.
Christ, that's fecking outrageous to make that claim.
I'm curious (putting my lefty boxing gloves on the floor because I'm in a good mood) so do you have time to answer a couple of questions?
1) what views do you feel make you a centrist? Maybe I'm missing them but from what you've said you seem center-right at best with a tendency towards individualism.
2) what was your opinion of New Labour under Blair?
Yeah Labour right to buy isn't stealing property, Mcdonnell has said it will be at a reasonable price, the policy was even backed by a centre right think tank -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/11/jeremy-corbyn-right-to-buy-plan-backed-by-thinktank
Yeah and I'm at the top of Rihanna feck list. Just saying something doesn't make it true. Its no surprise that you liked New Labour(One of the most right wing versions of late 90/early 2000's liberal politics), the softest of the soft centre left Ed Miliband was too much for you, basic 21st social democracy of this Labour Party is in your view Mao stealing everyone land and now your voting for the hard brexit/deport all the blacks tory party.
Yes that exactly what I said, you can't have a opinion. Are you even reading my posts ?
I posted that FT article as evidence to show that the idea Labour plans will make the UK economy worse off is in fact a load of shite. Now if your counter claim to this is to literally posts some jokes then................
Mate, your literally voting to - further the homelessness crisis, keep the benefits sanctions that attack disabled people and further the crisis of food banks(Plus so much more, sadly). This has nothing to do with the interest of the country and everything to do with your own self interest, which ok fine whatever at this point but just be honest about it.
We aren't just have a debate or disagreement over who should start up front for United. We are talking about people lives and the effects we have on them by voting. I'm sure your a nice bloke to your friends and family, I'm guessing you might help a few charities but outside of this tiny zone you are actually doing a ton of damage and well overall being a massive bell end. But hey on the positive side you are wealthy enough not to face the shit reality that is caused by your own voting decisions.
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Every tory voter around the country is this
Over 16,000 responses to a tweet about BBC bias towards tories, almost all saying the same thing!
And yet BBC will get away with this if BJ wins. UK is officially corrupt
And yet BBC will get away with this if BJ wins. UK is officially corrupt
@Sweet Square If you're trying to convince a Tory voter to show some recognition that they're culpable for the Tories impact on the poor, you're asking for miracles.
Their brains won't allow it, they've an emotional feeling of being targeted and backwards reasoned a faintly logical sounding argument to convince themselves.
Usually one or all of the below:
Their brains won't allow it, they've an emotional feeling of being targeted and backwards reasoned a faintly logical sounding argument to convince themselves.
Usually one or all of the below:
- False Choice - It's not my fault as all the other options would be bad for people too
- Powerless - It's not my fault poverty is inevitable anyway
- Blame - It's not my fault the poor are lazy, i worked hard they should get a job.
- Denial - It's all just left wing conspiracy, this Tory will actually help people
I keep telling myself to stay out of this thread as nothing good ever comes from me posting here
But you know, although we obviously don’t agree on some things and from your posts I can see how your views of the Conservative Party have been formed. It sounds like there has been some tough times in your family for which I’m sorry to hear. Believe it or not I’m not a million miles away from being a Labour voter myself.
But this post is wrong. To assume all people who are voting Conservative are ‘this’ is silly. Some people, like me, are more than likely holding their noses and voting Conservative to ensure Labour don’t win despite being previous Labour voters. I’m not voting for who I want in office, I’m voting for the party that has the best chance of keeping this current Labour Party out of office.
So yes, some of us know deep down what we are voting for indirectly but because of specific policies that affect us and our families directly, and some of the more socialist plans and ideas just find the current Labour Party unappealing. It’s not quite as simple as you’re making out in your post.
I would have just as hard a time as that caller finding a reason to admire Boris but that still doesn’t change how I’ll vote.
Labour lost me the minute they announced their proposed changes to IHT and some of the ideas aimed at landlords. Now I know they’ve apparently watered the right to buy plans in the last week or so but the fact they have this way of thinking makes me very wary of them.
As you know, I inherited my 2nd home when my own parents died. It is my family home, where I grew up and it will pretty much be my pension throughout my old age so the thought of being forced to sell it at a ‘reasonable price’ triggered a very strong inner emotion.
Effectively I would have to sell my past, my present and mine and my children’s future. How could I vote for that? Like I said, I know this has apparently been watered down but even so, it displays either a way of thinking or even worse, a lack of thinking that makes it very hard for me to want to vote Labour.
I understand they want rich people to shoulder a larger burden and want to try and improve conditions for the poor but I fall into neither category so I would expect my situation to be left pretty much alone.
That’s not to say I would be opposed to certain tax rises that are taken from my salary or even my rental income, but to take it as a lump sum from my children on my death is another thing entirely.
At each election it is a balancing act. 1) what will this mean for the country? 2) What will this mean to me and my family? For this election I am more concerned by question 2. Yes, this could be viewed as selfish, and if so, then I accept that as I view myself as largely a considerate and generous person, but do I want to help my own children as much as I can? Yes.
I have always, long before this election, viewed IHT as a spiteful tax, a cynical grab of assets that normal families have worked hard for and already been taxed on and I feel that the current levels are fine. They allow pretty average families to pass the family home down to their children and no argument in the world will convince me this is wrong.
For me, rightly or wrongly this is pretty much a one policy election and it’s not Brexit.
Isaid it before on this thread, and I believe it’s a mantra on this forum not to insult the posters - so calling me a massive bell end really negates any argument you may have.
“deport all the blacks Tory party” now people have mentioned fake news on here - that’s an astonishing and damaging claim. Which the way you appropriate things implies anyone who votes Tory is a racist, along with being a massive bell end.
Seems to me like you are a very angry person, who likes to lash out at everyone who doesn’t share your view, furthermore you seem to have no comprehension that people can think differently to you. Judgemental.
I keep telling myself to stay out of this thread as nothing good ever comes from me posting here
But you know, although we obviously don’t agree on some things and from your posts I can see how your views of the Conservative Party have been formed. It sounds like there has been some tough times in your family for which I’m sorry to hear. Believe it or not I’m not a million miles away from being a Labour voter myself.
But this post is wrong. To assume all people who are voting Conservative are ‘this’ is silly. Some people, like me, are more than likely holding their noses and voting Conservative to ensure Labour don’t win despite being previous Labour voters. I’m not voting for who I want in office, I’m voting for the party that has the best chance of keeping this current Labour Party out of office.
So yes, some of us know deep down what we are voting for indirectly but because of specific policies that affect us and our families directly, and some of the more socialist plans and ideas just find the current Labour Party unappealing. It’s not quite as simple as you’re making out in your post.
I would have just as hard a time as that caller finding a reason to admire Boris but that still doesn’t change how I’ll vote.
Labour lost me the minute they announced their proposed changes to IHT and some of the ideas aimed at landlords. Now I know they’ve apparently watered the right to buy plans in the last week or so but the fact they have this way of thinking makes me very wary of them.
As you know, I inherited my 2nd home when my own parents died. It is my family home, where I grew up and it will pretty much be my pension throughout my old age so the thought of being forced to sell it at a ‘reasonable price’ triggered a very strong inner emotion.
Effectively I would have to sell my past, my present and mine and my children’s future. How could I vote for that? Like I said, I know this has apparently been watered down but even so, it displays either a way of thinking or even worse, a lack of thinking that makes it very hard for me to want to vote Labour.
I understand they want rich people to shoulder a larger burden and want to try and improve conditions for the poor but I fall into neither category so I would expect my situation to be left pretty much alone.
That’s not to say I would be opposed to certain tax rises that are taken from my salary or even my rental income, but to take it as a lump sum from my children on my death is another thing entirely.
At each election it is a balancing act. 1) what will this mean for the country? 2) What will this mean to me and my family? For this election I am more concerned by question 2. Yes, this could be viewed as selfish, and if so, then I accept that as I view myself as largely a considerate and generous person, but do I want to help my own children as much as I can? Yes.
I have always, long before this election, viewed IHT as a spiteful tax, a cynical grab of assets that normal families have worked hard for and already been taxed on and I feel that the current levels are fine. They allow pretty average families to pass the family home down to their children and no argument in the world will convince me this is wrong.
For me, rightly or wrongly this is pretty much a one policy election and it’s not Brexit.
Will you stop whining about being slightly worse off with your multiple homes. There are people actually suffering out there, it's insensitive. You're not generous and you're not considerate if your main consideration in our countries biggest decision is how many homes you can own without paying some extra tax.
There's literally a video posted a few pages back of a starving family.
At least he's owning it tbf.
I see a lot more gated communities in this countries immediate future. Easier just to shut the door on the problem and pretend it doesn't exist. "Not my problem mate" should be the conservatives campaign slogan.
Not whining at all. I have nothing to whine about. Just stating my disagreement with some of the generalisations that go on in here. They’re wrong.
Exactly.
Damn right you've nothing to whine about. You're one of the people keeping others down. You should be apologising.
And you somehow think that wasn’t upsetting to me? I have said many times, I don’t mind tax rises but I’m fundamentally against Labours IHT plans.
It shouldn’t be an either or choice. Looking after your own interests and family shouldn’t and needn’t be mutually exclusive from looking after the rest of society.
The media will conveniently ignore his pleas and only propagate this nonsense. It’s almost as if the sick feckers are relieved these events happened when they did so they have a new stick to beat Corbyn with.
Ok, I’d find it very interesting if you could find me one single person (other than maybe a couple women I two timed in my early 20’s) that I’ve ever met, worked for or see in my daily life that would say I had anything to apologise for or had kept anyone down. I don’t feel like I need to go to confession just yet.
I genuinely don’t think by owning one rental property and wanting to pass it on I am oppressing anybody.
The media get their Lee Rigby 2.0
I miss the Ed era. My favourite debate of modern politics was the idea that international relations comes down to two men (always men) facing off in a room, with the strongest exiting ‘victorious’, whatever that meant.
“Hell yes I’m tuss(sip) enough!”
I keep telling myself to stay out of this thread as nothing good ever comes from me posting here
The funny thing is when discussing Brexit it's a widely held belief that due to a more difficult and less profitable trading environment of course businesses and talented people will leave the UK causing economic issues. However when discussing the Labour Party and the fact that their policies would patently cause a less profitable and more difficult trading environment; which would cause businesses and talented people to leave the UK... That wouldn't happen.
My business is preparing for Brexit like any other... However do you know what is bothering our shareholders more than Brexit? The unlikely but still possible potential of a Corbyn lead government. There's already been board discussions about splitting the business with the management part of the company being set up in Ireland that deals with the none customer focusing parts of the business (credit, accounts, facilities, HR). These would be managed by management charges whereby a healthy portion of the profits would be declared in Ireland (c. 50 UK redundancies). Likewise one of the main shareholders has just bought a property in Cyprus with the view to using it for 3 months of the year in his semi-retirement; or for 6 months and a day and becoming domiciled in Cyprus if an "unfair" tax burden is implemented under Corbyn (c. £600k per annum less for the exchequer). A second major shareholder has asked his financial advisor likewise for similar advice. This must be happening with thousands of people in the country and thousands more the day after an election where it appears Corbyn would be Prime Minister.
Corbyn disciples can moan about this all they want and talk about a utopian society where wealthy people pay a much greater portion of tax; however it's not based in reality. Wealthy people already pay a huge % of the tax burden in this country, especially if you include their employer's National Insurance contributions, corporation taxes, business rates, SDLT, capital gains taxes etc. I guarantee that the wealthiest will not shoulder the majority of the spending commitments that Corbyn has promised. We will see investment leaving the country and the only way to to get greater taxes in a shrinking economy is to tax the already burdened middle classes, which is exactly what will happen.
This is Corbyn's vision though. It isn't a utopian country where everyone has a great quality of life. It's a country where everyone has the same mediocre life. The wealthy leave and the middle classes are dragged down to the lowest level.
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Shouldn't be but it is unfortunately. 'Looking after your own interests' is the raison detre of the Conservative party. This pathological liar of a PM went on national TV at the weekend and said that child poverty had gone down under the Tory government. You can spin it any way you like but a vote for them will inevitably condemn (more) people to death so just be prepared to own it.
I’ve seen complaints that Labour are devoting far too many of their resources to winning the unlikely seats of Tory big names (I.e. IDS in Chingford, Boris, Raab), rather than more logical swing seats. From an outsider’s view it does appear to be the case.
Also - what happened to Corbyn’s rallies? They seemed to be everywhere in 2017, I can hardly remember seeing any in this campaign.
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