UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

Buster15 said:
Like many of you, I too believe that some sort of life forms will exist outside of our planet. Possibly in our solar system.

But where I am a lot less sure is the possibility of what we would consider to be 'intelligent' life forms.

To do that, we need to look back at how firstly life on earth first came into being.
And more importantly, when and how humanity evolved.

Were it not for the meteor impacting the earth some 65m years ago, it is highly unlikely that mammals would have become the dominant life forms and reptilian life may still have been dominant.

And as many have pointed out here, the sheer size of our galaxy and the relatively low number of stars within tens of light years from earth lead me to believe that we have not been visited by other aliens and are unlikely to be.
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You need a better underestimate the sheer scale of the universe and probability.


Fag packet maths, if the chances of life evolving into intelligent life on earth as it has was 1 trillion to 1, then statistically speaking you could expect around another 10 billion intelligent life forms in the observable universe.



Obviously 1 trillion to 1 is arbitrary and could be magnitudes out in either direction. We know that life is incredibly resilient and finds a way so as long as there is the spark or seed, why should there be constant stable conditions for long enough for intelligence to emerge? The scale really is unimaginably large.
 
langster said:
I think a truly intelligent species wouldn't destroy its own planet and every other species.on it. I also don't think they would spend most of their time destroying each other over what is essentially variations on a theme of a concept formed thousands of years ago as a reason for control. That's the dichotomy of humans and our entire existence.




Proves what?

You have an incredibly low bar for what you consider to be intelligence.


As is hubris.
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Some humans are intelligent. And id imagine an alien race would contain a fair few idiots also.
 
Buster15 said:
Like many of you, I too believe that some sort of life forms will exist outside of our planet. Possibly in our solar system.

But where I am a lot less sure is the possibility of what we would consider to be 'intelligent' life forms.

To do that, we need to look back at how firstly life on earth first came into being.
And more importantly, when and how humanity evolved.

Were it not for the meteor impacting the earth some 65m years ago, it is highly unlikely that mammals would have become the dominant life forms and reptilian life may still have been dominant.

And as many have pointed out here, the sheer size of our galaxy and the relatively low number of stars within tens of light years from earth lead me to believe that we have not been visited by other aliens and are unlikely to be.
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Don't forget that the low star density region of the galaxy helps make the conditions for life possible.
 
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Buster15 said:
But where I am a lot less sure is the possibility of what we would consider to be 'intelligent' life forms.
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Intelligent enough to have technology capable of detection or communication over significant distance is as good a definition of what we are talking about as any I'd say.
Buster15 said:
Were it not for the meteor impacting the earth some 65m years ago, it is highly unlikely that mammals would have become the dominant life forms and reptilian life may still have been dominant.
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Things would have developed differently without the meter strike but Mammals had already begun expanding in numbers (individuals and species) before the meteor strike. As mammals could survive better the post strike conditions allowed an explosive expansion. How things would have turned out is open to debate but reptiles would have continued to dominate for at least some time and mammals would have been pushed into competing primarily with smaller dinosaurs. So who knows. It would be a great premise for a book or film.
 
Wibble said:
Intelligent enough to have technology capable of detection or communication over significant distance is as good a definition of what we are talking about as any I'd say.

Things would have developed differently without the meter strike but Mammals had already begun expanding in numbers (individuals and species) before the meteor strike. As mammals could survive better the post strike conditions allowed an explosive expansion. How things would have turned out is open to debate but reptiles would have continued to dominate for at least some time and mammals would have been pushed into competing primarily with smaller dinosaurs. So who knows. It would be a great premise for a book or film.
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Agreed. Mammals would have probably evolved.
And as you rightly say, all conjecture. But interesting to think about nonetheless.

But what is without doubt is that humans are a filthy animal despite our undoubted intelligence.
In the unlikely event that we actually have been visited by aliens, that would be one thing they would have noted.
 
Buster15 said:
Agreed. Mammals would have probably evolved.
And as you rightly say, all conjecture. But interesting to think about nonetheless.

But what is without doubt is that humans are a filthy animal despite our undoubted intelligence.
In the unlikely event that we actually have been visited by aliens, that would be one thing they would have noted.
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Were are not mammals. The closest organism on our planet to us is a virus.
 
Buster15 said:
If you say so.
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I do, and I'm quite sure if every other living thing on this planet had a voice they would agree, or all the species we have made extinct for our own purposes, many completely needless other than greed. I'm also sure the planet itself would agree if it could talk.

So much for our higher intelligence. What a load of bollocks.
 
langster said:
I do, and I'm quite sure if every other living thing on this planet had a voice they would agree, or all the species we have made extinct for our own purposes, many completely needless other than greed. I'm also sure the planet itself would agree if it could talk.

So much for our higher intelligence. What a load of bollocks.
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Ok. Now I understand.
 
langster said:
I do, and I'm quite sure if every other living thing on this planet had a voice they would agree, or all the species we have made extinct for our own purposes, many completely needless other than greed. I'm also sure the planet itself would agree if it could talk.

So much for our higher intelligence. What a load of bollocks.
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Less than 0.1% of all species that have become extinct have co-existed with humans, but hey keep peddling this thesis.

For example, the Great American exchange which happened 2.5 million years ago, was caused when South American predators migrated North and basically caused a gigantic list of species to become extinct.
 
langster said:
I do, and I'm quite sure if every other living thing on this planet had a voice they would agree, or all the species we have made extinct for our own purposes, many completely needless other than greed. I'm also sure the planet itself would agree if it could talk.

So much for our higher intelligence. What a load of bollocks.
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Intelligence doesn't equal moral values. This is the mistake you are making in your posts. One of the biggest criminals in the history of the mankind are actually with high intelligence.
And the debate about the more intelligent you become the less emotional you get is a whole another can of worms i would not dare to open in this thread right now haha
 
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AfonsoAlves said:
Less than 0.1% of all species that have become extinct have co-existed with humans, but hey keep peddling this thesis.

For example, the Great American exchange which happened 2.5 million years ago, was caused when South American predators migrated North and basically caused a gigantic list of species to become extinct.
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I think that's missing the point. I'm also pretty well versed on evolutionary biology and science as well as history seeing as my youngest son is doing his PhD and wants to work in Antarctica at the Halley research station for the British Antarctic Survey. We've spent many trips to museums, lectures, seminars etc. Brian Cox last year was only bettered by Attenborough's Earth Experience.

The Earth Experience btw that pretty much just reiterates the contradiction of humans claiming superior intelligence.

If we were so smart we wouldn't keep destroying the one thing that gives us life and the ability to be so.

Some of the most intelligent people I have met are complete fecking morons.
PepG said:
Intelligence doesn't equal moral values. This is the mistake you are making in your posts. One of the biggest criminals in the history of the mankind are actually with high intelligence.
And the debate about the more intelligent you become the less emotional you get is a whole another can of worms i would not dare to open in this thread right now haha
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No, I understand that completely but this is where I don't agree with so called experts. I personally class intelligence differently. As I said in my reply above, some of the most intelligent people I know are complete and utter fecking morons. Highly intelligent but absolutely no social skills, no street smarts and often no common sense whatsoever, no understanding of anything except the scientific or mathematical or logical answer. A few I know are extremely callous with it with no empathy or understanding of situations or how others may be affected as they have no emotional intelligence or reasoning.

Intelligence comes in many forms and I won't apologise for judging intelligence differently than how it's being argued here. I know it's an argument I won't win because of the exact reasons I've listed above, and I agree and accept and have admitted I'm looking at and judging it differently. But those reasons are quite often why we are fecked and in the situation we are in, not only as a species, but for the entire planet, the future of the planet and everything that lives on it.

But yeah, let's carry on how we are, destroy this planet and all the beauty and perfect living conditions it provides to us and let the smart people build rockets and technology to help us move to Mars and colonise a planet that's completely and utterly devoid of everything that makes this planet so special and unique. Instead of doing everything we can to preserve this one and advance technology to the point we can look past Mars and find somewhere similar to here. If that will ever even be a possibility because I am 99% certain we will cause our own and this planets destruction before we ever get to that point.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Less than 0.1% of all species that have become extinct have co-existed with humans, but hey keep peddling this thesis.

For example, the Great American exchange which happened 2.5 million years ago, was caused when South American predators migrated North and basically caused a gigantic list of species to become extinct.
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And what % of species that have co-existed with humans have become extinct?
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Less than 0.1% of all species that have become extinct have co-existed with humans, but hey keep peddling this thesis.

For example, the Great American exchange which happened 2.5 million years ago, was caused when South American predators migrated North and basically caused a gigantic list of species to become extinct.
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It’s not a thesis that humans are causing a lot of extinction

The way you’ve framed it statistically is meaningless, obviously
 
golden_blunder said:
What are these drones firing at?

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/MAp8xA8v3EUZnkMU/?mibextid=wwXIfr
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That isn't a drone. That looks like C-RAM rounds (which I highly doubt will be fired on continental US soil and plus the trajectory doesn't make sense) OR

It's either an F-16/F15/FA-18/F-35 firing their 20mm/25mm cannon rounds, most likely on a training exercise.

The tracer profile and rate looks identical to a M61 Vulcan, which is found on all the above sans F-35 and well as CRAM and CIWS.

OR even an Apache/Black Hawk firing its Chain guns.

 
Wibble said:
Intelligent enough to have technology capable of detection or communication over significant distance is as good a definition of what we are talking about as any I'd say.

Things would have developed differently without the meter strike but Mammals had already begun expanding in numbers (individuals and species) before the meteor strike. As mammals could survive better the post strike conditions allowed an explosive expansion. How things would have turned out is open to debate but reptiles would have continued to dominate for at least some time and mammals would have been pushed into competing primarily with smaller dinosaurs. So who knows. It would be a great premise for a book or film.
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I like it in jurassic park 3 when he says, that if not for the meteor raptors could've become the dominant species on earth rather than man. I don't think they'd have the dexterity to build the world we have, maybe he didn't mean it like that. Always made me smile though.
 
langster said:
I think that's missing the point. I'm also pretty well versed on evolutionary biology and science as well as history seeing as my youngest son is doing his PhD and wants to work in Antarctica at the Halley research station for the British Antarctic Survey. We've spent many trips to museums, lectures, seminars etc. Brian Cox last year was only bettered by Attenborough's Earth Experience.

The Earth Experience btw that pretty much just reiterates the contradiction of humans claiming superior intelligence.

If we were so smart we wouldn't keep destroying the one thing that gives us life and the ability to be so.

Some of the most intelligent people I have met are complete fecking morons.


No, I understand that completely but this is where I don't agree with so called experts. I personally class intelligence differently. As I said in my reply above, some of the most intelligent people I know are complete and utter fecking morons. Highly intelligent but absolutely no social skills, no street smarts and often no common sense whatsoever, no understanding of anything except the scientific or mathematical or logical answer. A few I know are extremely callous with it with no empathy or understanding of situations or how others may be affected as they have no emotional intelligence or reasoning.

Intelligence comes in many forms and I won't apologise for judging intelligence differently than how it's being argued here. I know it's an argument I won't win because of the exact reasons I've listed above, and I agree and accept and have admitted I'm looking at and judging it differently. But those reasons are quite often why we are fecked and in the situation we are in, not only as a species, but for the entire planet, the future of the planet and everything that lives on it.

But yeah, let's carry on how we are, destroy this planet and all the beauty and perfect living conditions it provides to us and let the smart people build rockets and technology to help us move to Mars and colonise a planet that's completely and utterly devoid of everything that makes this planet so special and unique. Instead of doing everything we can to preserve this one and advance technology to the point we can look past Mars and find somewhere similar to here. If that will ever even be a possibility because I am 99% certain we will cause our own and this planets destruction before we ever get to that point.
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We will not destroy this planet. It's survived far worse than were capable of and would thrive without us. The issue is that whilst destroying ourselves we'd likely make many species extinct in the process.
 
giggs-beckham said:
I like it in jurassic park 3 when he says, that if not for the meteor raptors could've become the dominant species on earth rather than man. I don't think they'd have the dexterity to build the world we have, maybe he didn't mean it like that. Always made me smile though.
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If fairness to the Dinos 170 million years is a decent run at the top
 
langster said:
:lol: We ARE destroying this planet, it's not even up for debate.
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They’re not wrong in a way, we are making it uninhabitable for ourselves and have already caused the extinction of thousands of species but ultimately it’s very unlikely that we are going to kill all life on earth and when we (or at least our hyper-industrialisation) is gone the planet will soon burst with new life thriving in whatever conditions we leave.
 
Wibble said:
We won't kill the planet, but we are rapidly killing it for our purposes and accelerating extinctions while we do it. If we wipe ourselves out the planet will be fine.
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Pexbo said:
They’re not wrong in a way, we are making it uninhabitable for ourselves and have already caused the extinction of thousands of species but ultimately it’s very unlikely that we are going to kill all life on earth and when we (or at least our hyper-industrialisation) is gone the planet will soon burst with new life thriving in whatever conditions we leave.
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Obviously we won't destroy the planet entirely, It was pretty obvious what I meant. I can't be arsed arguing semantics just for a win on the interweb.
 
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