U21s: Huddersfield vs United

Pogue Mahone said:
So hard to play passing football with a keeper who smashes every back pass up in the air or shanks it into touch.
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You can't really blame him tonight....we have several outfield players who misplaces passes more often than him
 
Disappointing to go out, especially with international commitments, but that's life- sometimes unfair

Character building night for those available today
 
Our best 3 performers today IMO were Ennis, Musa and Fredricson. Ennis looked lively as usual in the first half, but seemed a bit off in the second half. Musa obviously scored our only goal. And Fredicson made some good line breaking passes and clearances.

Amass was horrible. He always tried to be aggressive, on the front foot but he's not physically ready to play with that style, so that backfired. McAllister and Kingdon didn't impressed me.

But good to see Malacia back and Kone get more minutes.
 
Villa ended up as the only U21 side out of the 16 to make it to the knockouts. Gap is just pretty big between development and senior football. Lot of players and a lot of playstyles that just don't match up well.
 
Disapponting end to an otherwise decent group stage. This is what happens when you can't compete physically, you can't lose 75% aerial duel and majority of the ground duels and expect to come out on top, but that's how football/physical development goes, lots to learn from tonight. Huddersfield looked much better drilled as you'd expect.
 
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euv2 said:
Disapponting end to an otherwise decent group stage. This is what happens when you can't compete physically, you can't lose 75% aerial duel and majority of the ground duels and expect to come out on top, but that's how football development goes, lots to learn from tonight. Huddersfield looked much better drilled as you'd expect.
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They're one of the better sides in League 1 and it was basically a first team... Was always going to be a bit of a mismatch
 
Huddersfield were always going to be a hell of a test considering they only got relegated to L1, could really see the difference in physicality in the second half. Our lads wilted by about 65 mins and Huddersfield made smart changes and appeared much fresher.

Good run out for Malacia. Kone showed some glimpses but still very raw. Amass had zero discipline in his game today. He's a mile off senior level, but hopefully by next year he will be closer. Hell of a goal by Musa though
 
It was bad timing to play them - usually the L1 sides would rest a ton but they dont have a game this weekend, only four changes.

They're very likely to be play offs / edge of automatic places.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
We’d have lost regardless. I’m just struggling to understand why we have keepers on our books who are such poor footballers. It’s not what you expect at top team these days.
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I mean how many gks in the senior game are actually decent on the ball? It's still a rare quality, it hasn't quite trickled down to grassroots yet.

Aren't a couple of the lads meant to be ok on the ball though, like that Harrison lad?
 
euv2 said:
Disapponting end to an otherwise decent group stage. This is what happens when you can't compete physically, you can't lose 75% aerial duel and majority of the ground duels and expect to come out on top, but that's how football/physical development goes, lots to learn from tonight. Huddersfield looked much better drilled as you'd expect.
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To be fair. I'm not sure its dissapointing. In that they got taught invaluable lessons today about the senior game. Which is bound to make most of them much better footballers and even increase their chances of making it to senior ranks if they take the lessons on board.
 
Crimson King said:
I mean how many gks in the senior game are actually decent on the ball? It's still a rare quality, it hasn't quite trickled down to grassroots yet.

Aren't a couple of the lads meant to be ok on the ball though, like that Harrison lad?
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All of them? And it’s definitely reached grassroots. Even in schoolboy football in Ireland the best teams all have keepers who are comfortable with the ball at their feet.

I might be being harsh on Mee though. Haven’t watched him much so may just have been a bad day at the office.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
To be fair. I'm not sure its dissapointing. In that they got taught invaluable lessons today about the senior game. Which is bound to make most of them much better footballers and even increase their chances of making it to senior ranks if they take the lessons on board.
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It is disappointing - as those lessons might not have to have been learned by our starting players had we been able to pick a stronger team.

A real shame to be knocked out having done so well, and largely because the last round of fixtures was arranged for an international midweek and so we were without plenty of key personnel - while Huddersfield able to field a stronger than usual selection with no match this upcoming weekend.
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
Huddersfield were always going to be a hell of a test considering they only got relegated to L1, could really see the difference in physicality in the second half. Our lads wilted by about 65 mins and Huddersfield made smart changes and appeared much fresher.

Good run out for Malacia. Kone showed some glimpses but still very raw. Amass had zero discipline in his game today. He's a mile off senior level, but hopefully by next year he will be closer. Hell of a goal by Musa though
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Was plenty calling for Amass to be picked on Ten Hags team but clearly he needs plenty of development work yet before making the step up.
 
always_hoping said:
Was plenty calling for Amass to be picked on Ten Hags team but clearly he needs plenty of development work yet before making the step up.
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That seemed to be mostly from people who hadn't seen him but had heard he was an exciting prospect.

Those who'd watched Amass a lot with the U18's were warning that he simply wasn't ready for first team action. And clearly that remains the case. He's still an exciting prospect, long term, but still has plenty to work on as you say.
 
All it takes one bad half for some of the people here to completely disregard past 18 months of progression of players.

Amass is suddenly not ready for any first team action(not starter but any) cos he had a bad 45 minutes.

Excellent stuff.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
That seemed to be mostly from people who hadn't seen him but had heard he was an exciting prospect.

Those who'd watched Amass a lot with the U18's were warning that he simply wasn't ready for first team action. And clearly that remains the case. He's still an exciting prospect, long term, but still has plenty to work on as you say.
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Weird generalization to make.
 
KM said:
Weird generalization to make.
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It wasn't intended to be. Just remembering the situation and how most of the people who regularly post on the academy threads were saying 'he's still very young, not physically developed enough, not even progressed to the U21's yet (at the time), still a lot to learn defensively', etc.

Very few of the ones calling for him or any other youngster from the U18's to be thrown straight in to the first team were saying they'd watched them regularly and were convinced they were ready then. The ones saying they'd watched him plenty were generally saying 'good prospect, but definitely not ready for the first team yet'.
 
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KM said:
All it takes one bad half for some of the people here to completely disregard past 18 months of progression of players.

Amass is suddenly not ready for any first team action(not starter but any) cos he had a bad 45 minutes.

Excellent stuff.
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You're misremembering what many posters on Academy game threads have been saying about Amass over that 18 month period.

Most, myself included, have been wary of throwing him in too early and saying he's still young and not yet ready for first team action. There's no 'suddenly' about it. He's clearly a good prospect, but most have warned that he still needs to develop - physically and defensively - before being ready for PL action.

And even more so earlier in the year, during the second half of last season and the whole 'we must have a young full back we can play instead? Anyone would be better!' Many who watched the academy games were pointing out that the young RB's coming through weren't great, and LB wise - Fernandez was the most ready but out on loan (now sold obviously), and Amass very promising but only 16/ just 17 (at the time) and not ready. Few of those were saying 'throw him in, he's ready'.

It's not just yesterday's 'one bad half'. That was just one of those instances that supports the point, and the massive gulf between youth football and senior football (even lower league teams, when they pick a strong line up like last night).
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
All of them? And it’s definitely reached grassroots. Even in schoolboy football in Ireland the best teams all have keepers who are comfortable with the ball at their feet.

I might be being harsh on Mee though. Haven’t watched him much so may just have been a bad day at the office.
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That's definitely not true. I guess it might depend on what you define as comfortable on the ball though
 
Pogue Mahone said:
All of them? And it’s definitely reached grassroots. Even in schoolboy football in Ireland the best teams all have keepers who are comfortable with the ball at their feet.

I might be being harsh on Mee though. Haven’t watched him much so may just have been a bad day at the office.
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You're right about Mee - he's a limited keeper who is regularly poor with the ball at his feet and gives away too many goals / chances because he struggles to play the ball out well. You accept someone will make the odd mistake provided they mostly do it well (such as Harrison), but Mee is just generally weak in that area.

I think that's why he's still here though, filling the U21 slot. He'll be 22 in a weeks time, and any loans he's had have only been non-league. The likes of Kovar, Vitek, Harrison have much higher ceilings and were / are being loaned out to gain more beneficial first team football rather than stuck in the graveyard of U21 football.
 
Mickson said:
I know. Kamason and Amass, even Kukonki, are better so yes, it's bizarre.
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Amass is 17, Kukonki is 16, Kamason is 17. Ogunneye is 19. It's not just about talent - it's about being ready to play for the first team - and in terms of maturity and matching the other players physically - he is probably the best because of his age.

Kamason isn't good enough defensively to play for the first-team - and Amass' poor form disqualifies him. I am not a huge fan of Ogunneye - but as things stand - he is the best (least bad) alternative here and now
 
lysglimt said:
Amass is 17, Kukonki is 16, Kamason is 17. Ogunneye is 19. It's not just about talent - it's about being ready to play for the first team - and in terms of maturity and matching the other players physically - he is probably the best because of his age.

Kamason isn't good enough defensively to play for the first-team - and Amass' poor form disqualifies him. I am not a huge fan of Ogunneye - but as things stand - he is the best (least bad) alternative here and now
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I disagree with that. I'm aware of the players' age and qualities, as I have been watching the academy games regularly for about 15 years. Amass poor form? Kamason isn't good enough defensively? Well, that might be relevant if Ogunneye was any good, which he isn't, which he yet again displayed last night. He can't even defend at U21 level. At least there is hope for Amass and Kamason. There is absolutely no point in having Ogunneye there. First of all, he was never going to play (he would have Lindelof etc instead) and secondly, he has no future here which makes it pointless.
 
Mickson said:
I disagree with that. I'm aware of the players' age and qualities, as I have been watching the academy games regularly for about 15 years. Amass poor form? Kamason isn't good enough defensively? Well, that might be relevant if Ogunneye was any good, which he isn't, which he yet again displayed last night. He can't even defend at U21 level. At least there is hope for Amass and Kamason. There is absolutely no point in having Ogunneye there. First of all, he was never going to play (he would have Lindelof etc instead) and secondly, he has no future here which makes it pointless.
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Bang on.
 
Mickson said:
I disagree with that. I'm aware of the players' age and qualities, as I have been watching the academy games regularly for about 15 years. Amass poor form? Kamason isn't good enough defensively? Well, that might be relevant if Ogunneye was any good, which he isn't, which he yet again displayed last night. He can't even defend at U21 level. At least there is hope for Amass and Kamason. There is absolutely no point in having Ogunneye there. First of all, he was never going to play (he would have Lindelof etc instead) and secondly, he has no future here which makes it pointless.
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You have watched the academy for 15 years - I just don't see what that has to do with anything ? I never questioned that Amass or Kamason were more talented than Ogunneye - that is completely beside the point. My point was that you can't throw a 17 year old who is not physically or mentally mature enough into the first-team. Or Kukonki who is 16 - to take it one step further. The cup-games yesterday showed what happened when the majority of 17-18 year olds come up against experienced players, they perform well below their normal qualities. If we had got 1 or 2 more injuries to defenders - we could have ended up in the position where we had to use a youth-team defender - and I would have preferred a 19 year old Ogunneye to a 17 year old Amass who on top of everything is nowhere near the form he was in last season.

And perhaps you should not claim that a 19 year old footballer is hopeless ?
 
lysglimt said:
You have watched the academy for 15 years - I just don't see what that has to do with anything ? I never questioned that Amass or Kamason were more talented than Ogunneye - that is completely beside the point. My point was that you can't throw a 17 year old who is not physically or mentally mature enough into the first-team. Or Kukonki who is 16 - to take it one step further. The cup-games yesterday showed what happened when the majority of 17-18 year olds come up against experienced players, they perform well below their normal qualities. If we had got 1 or 2 more injuries to defenders - we could have ended up in the position where we had to use a youth-team defender - and I would have preferred a 19 year old Ogunneye to a 17 year old Amass who on top of everything is nowhere near the form he was in last season.

And perhaps you should not claim that a 19 year old footballer is hopeless ?
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Strange timing to big up Amass, that’s for sure. He really was hopeless last night.
 
Criticising Amass doesn't mean I don't support him for the future, its being honest for the here and now. He is struggling for consistency at U21 level, but the game vs Huddersfield was a step above that and he was woefully. It wasn't even the physicality, he was tactically a mile off. Too advanced off the ball, too deep on the ball. It was bizarre.

I hope he can figure it out by end of season so he can be a deputy next year or year after
 
lysglimt said:
You have watched the academy for 15 years - I just don't see what that has to do with anything ? I never questioned that Amass or Kamason were more talented than Ogunneye - that is completely beside the point. My point was that you can't throw a 17 year old who is not physically or mentally mature enough into the first-team. Or Kukonki who is 16 - to take it one step further. The cup-games yesterday showed what happened when the majority of 17-18 year olds come up against experienced players, they perform well below their normal qualities. If we had got 1 or 2 more injuries to defenders - we could have ended up in the position where we had to use a youth-team defender - and I would have preferred a 19 year old Ogunneye to a 17 year old Amass who on top of everything is nowhere near the form he was in last season.

And perhaps you should not claim that a 19 year old footballer is hopeless ?
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I felt the need since you dedicated a lot of posts to mansplaining things to me that I already know. I never said Ogunneye is hopeless. I said that there is no future for him in the first team, which makes it pointless to have him on the bench or around the first team.
 
Mickson said:
I felt the need since you dedicated a lot of posts to mansplaining things to me that I already know. I never said Ogunneye is hopeless. I said that there is no future for him in the first team, which makes it pointless to have him on the bench or around the first team.
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Well that was not my intention - I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one
 
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