When did he come on, didn't even realise a sub was made til I saw him on the screen.
U18s: United vs. Palace
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
Alright, how about the fact that it works for Barcelona? Just because it's 'only little Southampton' (what a condescending POV) who adopt this strategy doesn't mean it has no value.
feck sake another goal, Afro man done well to go through the defence and put it on a plate for his team mate. Although shocking defending.
Nice setup from the guy with the hair. CP score
Good play there from Barmby and Daehli almost resulting in a goal.
Also ill add that they have produced Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana (who could easily play in a top half of the league team) and Shaw who is looking like the future English LB and thats only in the last few years.
Why are you comparing them to Barcelona? I was going on the conversation he was having with Drainy where he said "just because they don't go all out to defend".
I don't know how Southampton youngsters play, I was simply saying that we don't set out our youngsters to "play to protect leads" and I'm sure that's not how Barcelona kids are set up so that's a poor example. I was simply saying our teams don't play to survive, there's a lot of emphasis on player development and that's more effective to us than trying to protect leads.
I don't think I said anything condescending.
But then producing some players has nothing to do with the argument I was making against you. I don't know how they play, but the conversation you were having was implying that you weren't expecting us to be so attacking and open.
"Get up you fecking idiot"
"Why you calling me a fecking idiot"
"Because you're a fecking idiot"
What is it that you think Southampton are doing that United aren't that is making them produce these players? Our first team generally plays 4-4-1-1 and thats what formation we're playing today..
You mention Walcott but I'm sure he was a striker in his youth career, and he broke into Southampton's first team as a left winger and has played most his career as a right winger. Bale was seen as a left back who could also play in midfield and he's now a winger/second striker.
Full time: 2-1 to Palace.
No. The previous poster said that he's surprised that our kids don't play the same system as the first team, the way Southampton(and also Barca) do. You then said that just because a small club like Southampton do it doesn't mean that one of the biggest clubs in the world (United) should.
well deserved win for palace, we were careless with our passing especially in first half. A couple of our players, notably Barmby, played a bit like they had been on the piss last night.
We have produced as many top half premiership players in recent times if not more than Southampton.
Don't get what's the comparison to them about. And as far as Barca are concerned they probably produce more players but they take on 1 type of player and a hell lot of them while we take on all different kinds of talents and less number of players.
Basically, every kid in Catalunya and sometimes far off wants to join their system too. It's more competitive in England in terms of young talent. Also, they bring in South American kids at early ages which we can't do.
Don't get what's the comparison to them about. And as far as Barca are concerned they probably produce more players but they take on 1 type of player and a hell lot of them while we take on all different kinds of talents and less number of players.
Basically, every kid in Catalunya and sometimes far off wants to join their system too. It's more competitive in England in terms of young talent. Also, they bring in South American kids at early ages which we can't do.
Don't think there's much difference at all between the systems the U18s and U21s use and that of the first team to be honest, and certainly no difference in philosophy.
Poor performance really.
Losing out to the bottom team. Defence the weakness again and they bullied our players a bit with hard tackles and the aerial game.
In the 2nd half particularly they were happy to keep the ball in the air, while our passing wasn't great to break their system. We created chances but were pretty disjointed at times.
Losing out to the bottom team. Defence the weakness again and they bullied our players a bit with hard tackles and the aerial game.
In the 2nd half particularly they were happy to keep the ball in the air, while our passing wasn't great to break their system. We created chances but were pretty disjointed at times.
yep, they also get far more face time with them while we're restricted.
Still have no idea what his argument actually is. We played our usual 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1. He says this is his first time watching the u-18s, I'd suggest that if he thinks that our first team doesn't play in an open style in league games he hasn't watched them much either.
But you still completely missed what I was saying, Drainy made a comment to him about protecting leads which is what I was assuming quinton's defence was based on. My argument was in relation to that and saying we shouldn't be playing to protect leads which if you read my post properly you'd see that's what I was saying. I categorically stated that player development was more important to us at this stage than results.
If I misinterpreted what quinton was saying then fair enough but if you look at his conversation with Drainy then you'd understand why I said what I did.
My comment wasn't in any way shape or form suggesting that our kids shouldn't adopt the same type of formations and strategies as our first team, more that we should not focus on protecting leads, so you've misunderstood my posts.
Little point making anything of them being 'the bottom team' - they'd only played one game before today (away at Chelsea I think)! Even if they were genuine basement-dwellers, it happens in youth football.
Not really fussed if a team outmuscle us - we're never going to be equipped to match that and nor really should we be. Good learning experience and nothing to be that concerned about, especially given we're missing Love, Rowley, Rudge, Rothwell, Wilson etc due to injury. Defence is a weakness but sometimes it just works out that way with the players you take on in a given year - just means we might not win league or cup this year, so be it. If we bring a couple of these through that's all that matters.
Jesus you've really taken a small point to heart. All I was saying is that its a really open games with both teams attacking rather than any particular tactic. Id expected the team to play a similar style to the first team which they didnt. Dont read too much into it. Its just part of my belief that you should get the young kids playing the position they always will if they get in the first team as it means they dont have to learn their way into the premiership as much. I dont like the idea of playing young players outwide because theyre not physically ready yet I think you put them in their eventual role or play someone else, after all at this level the winning isnt everything.
Anyway, their left winger looked a decent talent. I do wonder if he was just motivated by playing United though, if he can keep those levels up he'll play a very good standard.
Actually, it is a major point if you are saying our academy is making a major error that is costing us first team players who are ready to make the step up.
So far all it sounds like is that you saw that at 18s league level our opponents don't play all out defend because there isn't a point and for some reason are blaming our coaching staff for what the opposition are doing.
We were playing our usual formation and our usual tactics, your point about Southampton producing Bale and Walcott because they played the same position all the way through is invalid if they go on to play different positions as first team players. If you don't see the value in playing smaller players out wide, thats your opinion but I'd suggest history shows you are talking out of your arse.
All I'll say on the matter is it is clear what I've argued for works at the top level. The United method works too so I can see why you are defending it but I was simply highlighting how its different to what I was expecting.
Variety is the spice of life afterall.
Variety is the spice of life afterall.
I don't understand what you were expecting to see? What were you not happy with? What would you have rather seen today?
You haven't even established how what you are arguing for is different from what we are doing.
Sloppy passing and poor defending costs us again. Its been that way ever since the break at christmas. We haven't got any real quality in defence and none of them are composed in possession which starves our midfield and stops our talented attacking players from getting on the ball enough.
Also, in this elite group stage every team we have played so far; Reading, Chelsea, S'oton and now Palace have been physically huge. These are the teams who have qualified from their respective groups most likely over better footballing teams who aren't as big and strong. This says a lot about the priorities of of the coaching staff at some of these clubs, and also youth development in English football still. Its good having a different type of opposition to face every now and then, not just up against big powerful lumps every week.
The way we struggle with physical tests also tells you why a lot of of our players aren't ready to step up into the u21s yet.
Also, in this elite group stage every team we have played so far; Reading, Chelsea, S'oton and now Palace have been physically huge. These are the teams who have qualified from their respective groups most likely over better footballing teams who aren't as big and strong. This says a lot about the priorities of of the coaching staff at some of these clubs, and also youth development in English football still. Its good having a different type of opposition to face every now and then, not just up against big powerful lumps every week.
The way we struggle with physical tests also tells you why a lot of of our players aren't ready to step up into the u21s yet.
Bloody hell, you're a bonny pair. It's pretty simple what he's saying and yet neither of you can grasp it apparently. His point is that Southampton play the same system at youth level as in the first team and we don't, and that this surprised him. Not really a controversial point.
But you're talking like we only play one system at first team level, the fact of the matter is we don't.
Our wide players today almost always play out wide so not sure where you're coming from there.
United do sometimes do that with youngsters - not just there either, but all over the park. It's their belief that playing in multiple positions helps with development (also the belief of a lot of top clubs) and it's worked pretty well for them I'd say.
Our 18s do play the same way as our first team. Not sure what makes you think they don't. Always 4411.
The 21s is a bit different because the personnel is jumbled with loans etc, but when everyone is available they also play the same way.
The 21s is a bit different because the personnel is jumbled with loans etc, but when everyone is available they also play the same way.
Well as has been said, we don't play one set system at first level, but if you were to try and pick our most used system you'd say it was a 4231 or 4411, which is exactly the system the 21s and 18s play?
Yep, Pogba and Cole often played wide for us.
How is what we were playing different from the first team?
4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 playing passing/possession football with attacks focused down the wide areas. His surprise seems to be with how Crystal Palace played not us, but yet he's complaining about how we played..
His point about Southampton seems to be 'they produced some good players why don't we do that', Walcott was a striker who has become predominantly a wide player and Bale was a fullback who as become a winger. Does Oxlaide-Chamberlain even have a set position? His point was easy to grasp but it's not based in reality.
Cleverley's a perfect example.
Oh yeah, and the point about Barcelona... Iniesta played multiple positions for their academy while he was learning the game and you can tell with his flexibility, Messi has played multiple positions, Fabregas is a midfielder but also has played as a striker for them.
Yeah and Bebe is a prime example, they still insist on playing him on the wing
But then look at Beckham, started out paying through the middle and got shifted out wide, I know not quite the same.
But it's just what we do, and like I keep stressing, player development is a lot more important at this stage than results. But then this whole debate has been because of one person only watching one game and then deducing the state of our under 18s and the football they play.
The main difference between playing style that I can see, is we don't shut out opponents trying to protect leads. And I don't see what's wrong with that, I'd much rather see the youngsters continuing to attack.
Well I'd say the u18s play a kind of 4-2-3-1, the u21s play almost a flat out 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 on a good day and the first team plays mostly 4-4-2. It's clearly a school of thought that the players should be tactically flexible and understand more than one formation and style of playing, and it has undoubtedly worked well when you look at the number of players United have prouced from the youth team.
However, Southampton in England use the same system all the way up through the age groups, as do Barca, and it's also a strategy that is clearly working for them. I don't see what's so controversial about all this
The only thing I do take issue with is the opinion that just because a club like Southampton do it doesn't necessarily mean United shouldn't. That's an incredibly condescending and ignorant way of looking at things.
I think you are completely overlooking the complexities of player availability for the u21s and the need to give players games.
With everyone fit and available (and with adequate numbers of players in each position) our reserves would be playing 4-4-1-1 with Januzaj playing off a striker, not as a conventional central midfielder .
In fact they usually do play 4-4-1-1 with Petrucci off the striker
With everyone fit and available (and with adequate numbers of players in each position) our reserves would be playing 4-4-1-1 with Januzaj playing off a striker, not as a conventional central midfielder .
In fact they usually do play 4-4-1-1 with Petrucci off the striker
Games being open in the U18's don't have to do with the formations necessarily tbf. The defenders are not physically there for many teams and our midfielders some times, and both teams attack rather than set out to defend or nick a point.
Meh, I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall here.
That's because your point is wrong and you are getting called on it.
We generally play 4-4-1-1/ 4-2-3-1 all the way through the ranks.