Blimey, that is ambitious. Personally I think Kroos and Carvalho would be enough strengthening even for our impoverished midfield, but then I've never been much of a fan of Strootman. Also as you probably know I've never despised Cleverley the way most on here now seem to, so I'd be happy for him to stay on as the fifth-choice CM. Particularly because I don't see Pearson and Rothwell needing too much longer to be ready for first team chances, and Cleverley would be the sort of player they could easily replace if he still wasn't offering much, whereas they'd never get a look-in ahead of the inevitably expensively-signed Strootman.
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Blimey, that is ambitious. Personally I think Kroos and Carvalho would be enough strengthening even for our impoverished midfield, but then I've never been much of a fan of Strootman. Also as you probably know I've never despised Cleverley the way most on here now seem to, so I'd be happy for him to stay on as the fifth-choice CM. Particularly because I don't see Pearson and Rothwell needing too much longer to be ready for first team chances, and Cleverley would be the sort of player they could easily replace if he still wasn't offering much, whereas they'd never get a look-in ahead of the inevitably expensively-signed Strootman.
Slight lack of dynamic, direct pace in that midfield, potentially. But I don't think it'll be a major problem- a midfield two [or three] of Kroos - Strootman [+ Carrick/Carvalho] would be amazing.
Who would pay that amount for either of them?
Plenty of clubs would happily pay 15-20m for Fellaini, but no-one would pay that for Cleverley. We'd be lucky to get 5m for him. Fellaini is a guaranteed 10+ goals a year in the PL from AM for a mid table club, he'd be a great asset for many of them.
Moyes for Fellaini probably ?
Cleverley hmm Robert rates him highly so maybe we can do player exchange with him going the other way. Maybe Tom + 25 = Barkley.
Big Sam for Fellaini, I hear Pullis wants £30m from Palace.
Cleverley would fetch from £6-12m, dependent on how willing we are to sell.
Fellaini is a very good player. Anybody who deny's that must be very short sighted. Apart from his last 6 months at Everton, he was an outstanding player and basically bossed all of their games for them. Albeit he doesn't fit into our system and I don't think he ever will but thats not to say he's worth 10-20mil to the right club.
As for Cleverly, he is English and has a lot of energy and enthusiasm. I can see him going for 8-12mil to somewhere like Everton.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2014/04/29/4783130/reus-silent-on-new-contract
Goal but quoting Bild.
Basically Reus not discussing whether he has been offered a new contract at Dortmund.
Goal but quoting Bild.
Basically Reus not discussing whether he has been offered a new contract at Dortmund.
I hate revisionism. Fellaini can't attract a £12 million price tag now? Boh. He's a good player, at times very good in the Premier League, and has performed consistently well in both midfield roles for the sixth/seventh best side in England for the previous four seasons. Even this season at United, he's taken apart midfielders in and around the bottom half of the table. A feeble praise, I know, but he's still one of the better midfielders in this league, and highly rated elsewhere.
Cleverley is a 24 year old England international with 150 top flight games under his belt and Champions League experience. We might not want him in our team but the likes of Newcastle, Everton, Southampton and even Tottenham (maybe) would show an interest in him if it came up that we were selling.
People just enjoy sticking it to our players. Cleverley would attract offers from a number of clubs. By all accounts, the manager of a team two places above us wants him and rates him highly.
Newcastle perhaps. I personally think he's worse than Everton's midfielders, Barry, Gibson and McCarthy. Southampton...he's worse than Schneiderlin, Cork and Wanyama. Tottenham...Paulinho, Sandro et al, nah. He could be a squad player at an upper mid table club or a starter at a mid table-ish/lower 10 club. I still don't think he's worth anywhere near 10m. I know in English football that doesn't seem much but it's a truly outrageous amount in world football. I mean, Juve got Arturo Vidal for ~£7m and there are a million more possible examples. You can get far more for £10m than Cleverley.
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Not convinced he's worse than Cork or Wanyama. Barry is 33 and on loan and he offers something completely different to Gibson. Paulinho and Sandro have been just as poor over the last few months too.
This gave me a chuckle:
Sky are wondering whether Dennis Bergkamp will join Frank de Boer at Spurs. Yes Dennis Bergkamp. To Spurs. They're seriously wondering that.
Sky are wondering whether Dennis Bergkamp will join Frank de Boer at Spurs. Yes Dennis Bergkamp. To Spurs. They're seriously wondering that.
When has Jack Cork demonstrated he is better than Cleverley? Jesus. I would actively offload Tom given our circumstances, but people tend to overlook the fact that our best form last season coincided with the timeframe in which Carrick and Cleverley struck up a partnership in midfield throughout the Winter. He was, quite bizarrely, completely frozen out around March time, however, he had a solid season.
Get Cleverley confident, under less pressure and in a team that plays some progressive stuff then you've got a player. In these discussions, I swear that people just conveniently forget all of the good things in some banal attempt at claiming some random player they barely watch is infact the better player.
Get Cleverley confident, under less pressure and in a team that plays some progressive stuff then you've got a player. In these discussions, I swear that people just conveniently forget all of the good things in some banal attempt at claiming some random player they barely watch is infact the better player.
Tom Cleverley has no outstanding attributes at all. His only "attribute" is the ability to I suppose, play short simple passes and run about a bit. Albeit with little creativity , while often shirking responsibility. He isn't a particularly hard worker defensively. He isn't a creative passer, he isn't a strong tackler, he isn't good in the air, he doesn't have great offensive movement, he doesn't have good defensive positioning, he skies 50% of his shots.... He is such as nothing player it's unbelievable.
At least players like Cork have reliable attributes - he is for example, a very hard worker and can be trusted to be pretty solid defensively. With Cleverley you have no idea what you're getting on any given night. They used to say one of Scholes's best abilities was his high 'bottom' level. Cleverley has no bottom level. It just goes down and down and down.
Anyway, sorry for derailing, I'll take it to the Cleverley thread if necessary.
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We are generally rubbish with the fees we get for players. But he hasn't dipped as low as £12m. He hasn't been that awful. He's just been plain average.
For tougher games Kroos could also play as a #10 or the furthest forward in a 3-man midfield ahead of Strootman and Carvalho, which is invaluable if we are going to sell someone like Kagawa in the summer.
Good boy RB. Typing out tweets for the rest of us.
No problem!
I will try to catch as many as possible like I did in the newbs so nobody misses anything.
Is it that dumb to wonder that? I know he is an Arsenal legend but is he going to going to give up his job as Frank's assistant just because it is Spurs? Unless he has an eye on stepping up to a managerial spot himself next year I don't see why he'd let Spurs being a rival stop him from progressing in his career.
Nice WU
He's scored 44 goals in his career. His best season he scored 12 as a target man. You're stretching with that assessment.
He scored 11 goals in 31 games. If he played all 38 as an AM/ST I find it hard to believe he wouldn't get 10+.
It was in 36 games. Or 11 in 31 league games. As a striker. Any number of cheaper options could get you that.
I dont think we'll be selling Fellaini next season.. Anderson and Cleverley are more likely to be sold. We've been linked to either attacking mids or playmakers, no DM other than the very overpriced Carvalho.. Van Gaal might keep him around as a swuad option..
Fellaini is more likely to go than Cleverley in my opinion.
Agree. Fellaini is the most anti Van Gaal footballer ever.
He got some contacts in Germany and is actually pretty reliable. Respected in Norway and Germany atleast.
I think Cleverley deserves a season under a coach like Van Gaal. I think there is a quality player in there. He's certainly shown great promise at times, and he is only 24. He's got very good technical ability I think and would be naturally suited to a midfield 3.
I think we should consider this last season as a total wash. Moyes destroyed him. We also need a certain amount of home grown players in the squad. We should concentrate on shifting on Fellaini and Anderson for a start, and then replace them with Kroos plus one. (Kroos, Strootman, Carrick, Cleverley, Fletcher). The year after we'll probably move Carrick on as he'll be 34/35 and bring someone else in. No need to do it all at once.
I think we should consider this last season as a total wash. Moyes destroyed him. We also need a certain amount of home grown players in the squad. We should concentrate on shifting on Fellaini and Anderson for a start, and then replace them with Kroos plus one. (Kroos, Strootman, Carrick, Cleverley, Fletcher). The year after we'll probably move Carrick on as he'll be 34/35 and bring someone else in. No need to do it all at once.
If Fellaini were sold how much do people reckon we could recoup on him?
I think we would do well to get £18-22 for him, thats probably what he was worth last year off the back of a great year at everton. His stock has fallen a bit since then.
I think we would do well to get £18-22 for him, thats probably what he was worth last year off the back of a great year at everton. His stock has fallen a bit since then.
And rightly so.
If rumours are to be believed (they rarely are)..... I think I've seen Fellaini to Arsenal for £20m and Cleverley to Everton for £12m.
Not 100% sure if that was what I remember seeing, or where I read them because I glossed over them while reading other things.
Not 100% sure if that was what I remember seeing, or where I read them because I glossed over them while reading other things.
I love Giggs but please no. This whole "united way", "british managers" schtick is starting to wear very thin. We need a proven top level manager for a few seasons. Trying to replicate the Fergie model over and over again is pure folly. Giggs has a lot to learn and shouldn't be doing it as United's #1.
People compare him to Guardiola but forget that Guardiola inherited a team with Puyol, Yaya Toure, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Eto'o in it. He just took them to the next level using a very clearly defined philosophy. Giggs is inheriting a squad that needs a significant overhaul and presumabely adheres to a coaching philosophy that is much less clearly defined and/or relevant in the modern era. I think he would really benefit from a few years under a foreign coach like Van Gaal, to broaden his horizons and learn a different perspective.
People compare him to Guardiola but forget that Guardiola inherited a team with Puyol, Yaya Toure, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Eto'o in it. He just took them to the next level using a very clearly defined philosophy. Giggs is inheriting a squad that needs a significant overhaul and presumabely adheres to a coaching philosophy that is much less clearly defined and/or relevant in the modern era. I think he would really benefit from a few years under a foreign coach like Van Gaal, to broaden his horizons and learn a different perspective.
It says in that article that giggs is surprised and disappointed not to be in the running for the job. I love giggs but seriously? He's had 10 months coaching experience and whilst I'd love him to have the job one day, now just simply isn't the time.
Getting a bit sick of hearing that the players are desperate for him to have it as well. It's good that he's respected and all but I think we need someone to come in and give a few of them a right good kick up the arse.
Getting a bit sick of hearing that the players are desperate for him to have it as well. It's good that he's respected and all but I think we need someone to come in and give a few of them a right good kick up the arse.
the media said a lot of things last summer - fabregas, strootman. Thiago. Garay gaitan, coentrao, matic were are said to be deals done.
Worst headline ever.
I believe both Strootman and Thiago were as good as done deals only for Moyes to pull the plug on both. We know this is the case for a fact when it comes to Thiago.
The man was a fecking idiot.
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