Mate I 100 % understand where you are coming from. Having ties to the past can work out great in certain cases and pay dividends in the long term. Bayern are a perfect example of that with Hoeness, Beckenbauer, Rumminigge all heavily involved. Even Liverpool to a certain extent had their boot room success where Shankley professed continuity in the long run with the likes of Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish and Souness involved and groomed in the "Liverpool Way". But it all came down crashing in spectacular fashion for them. Too often it can often work against the club because it can hinder unbiased judgement because you're dealing with a club legend so you can't be ruthless in your decisions. For the record I'd love it if the Class of 92 paid a massive part in our future success. But I still think it comes with an inherent risk. Yes, even foreign managers may not work out. But a manager with proven pedigree at the highest level is almost guaranteed to succeed. You just can't go wrong with proven commodities like Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Hiddink who have succeeded in different leagues. But a relatively inexperienced manager always runs the huge risk of going bust. Look at Gullit. Great manager. Probably learnt a lot from the likes of Sacchi and Capello. But did he succeed as a coach ? No. There is an overwhelming majority of great players being average managers. Even Sir Bobby. Brilliant player. Learnt a lot from Sir Matt like Giggsy learnt from Sir Alex. But did he turn out to be a great manager ? No. He we a disappointment at Preston. Life isn't a fairy tale, especially not in the cut-throat world of top end clubs. I just feel having gone wrong once, thinking that we can groom a manager in a pressure cooker environment, we have to make the right appointments in the future and go for the best, most experienced managers around. Giggsy may prove to be a wonderful manager and I'd be glad for him. But I would dread the response if he becomes our manager, subsequently fails and gets abused by fans who adore him right now. We have seen how short the memory span of a football fan is. Several people have wasted no opportunity in laying into legends like Sir Alex, Bobby and even Gary Neville. Look at how many Pool fans hate Souness for causing their demise. What if a similar tale unfolds with Giggsy ? I'd hate for that to happen. That's why I think he'll be better served going to another club. Manage at a high level for 5,6,7 years and if by that time he has a good enough CV - we'll appoint him for the right footballing reasons.
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Mate I 100 % understand where you are coming from. Having ties to the past can work out great in certain cases and pay dividends in the long term. Bayern are a perfect example of that with Hoeness, Beckenbauer, Rumminigge all heavily involved. Even Liverpool to a certain extent had their boot room success where Shankley professed continuity in the long run with the likes of Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish and Souness involved and groomed in the "Liverpool Way". But it all came down crashing in spectacular fashion for them. Too often it can often work against the club because it can hinder unbiased judgement because you're dealing with a club legend so you can't be ruthless in your decisions. For the record I'd love it if the Class of 92 paid a massive part in our future success. But I still think it comes with an inherent risk. Yes, even foreign managers may not work out. But a manager with proven pedigree at the highest level is almost guaranteed to succeed. You just can't go wrong with proven commodities like Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Hiddink who have succeeded in different leagues. But a relatively inexperienced manager always runs the huge risk of going bust. Look at Gullit. Great manager. Probably learnt a lot from the likes of Sacchi and Capello. But did he succeed as a coach ? No. There is an overwhelming majority of great players being average managers. Even Sir Bobby. Brilliant player. Learnt a lot from Sir Matt like Giggsy learnt from Sir Alex. But did he turn out to be a great manager ? No. He we a disappointment at Preston. Life isn't a fairy tale, especially not in the cut-throat world of top end clubs. I just feel having gone wrong once, thinking that we can groom a manager in a pressure cooker environment, we have to make the right appointments in the future and go for the best, most experienced managers around. Giggsy may prove to be a wonderful manager and I'd be glad for him. But I would dread the response if he becomes our manager, subsequently fails and gets abused by fans who adore him right now. We have seen how short the memory span of a football fan is. Several people have wasted no opportunity in laying into legends like Sir Alex, Bobby and even Gary Neville. Look at how many Pool fans hate Souness for causing their demise. What if a similar tale unfolds with Giggsy ? I'd hate for that to happen. That's why I think he'll be better served going to another club. Manage at a high level for 5,6,7 years and if by that time he has a good enough CV - we'll appoint him for the right footballing reasons.
As things stand I think it's turned quite obvious that our next manager will indeed be Van Gaal unless he surprisingly rejects the offer. He may just turn out to be what we exactly need at this point in time and let's not exaggerate, he's a very healthy man and could end up staying here for about 6 or more years. That's very long term in today's football world.
I totally share your sentiments and agree there is no sure win answers. Imagine we are now in the United Board room trying to figure out what to do next. The more we try to analyse the more you see there are pros and cons in either case (foreigner who's proven vs. club legend for long term but uncertain). If you are inclined to having the former (to guarantee success), it will still be short term (because we already agree "there is only One Sir Alex"). So are we becoming City and Chelsea?
A few things we all should be glad about though are:
1. Moyes is rid of
2. Giggs is in charge for last four games (instead of keeping Moyes till end of seasons for no good reasons at all because he's proven a "not fit"
3. 4 of Class of 92 will be together at the dugout for the rest of seasons, at games where results are no longer important but these games will still be stealing the limelights of those two three titles chasers
4. The summer and next season would be so so exciting because we do not have to be dragged down by Moyes whoever is taking over.
If that's the plan then Fergie himself should spend those three years grooming Giggs because I don't think it's conducive for an ideal working environment if it's known that you are just holding fort for your number two . What if the next man earns the right, through performances, to last beyond those three years ? How can a good working relationship develop under those circumstances ? The effect of this plan is to discourage the new man from long term planning, a strategy that has benefited us greatly thus far .
Giggs shouldn't have the throne handed to him this way, he should prove himself in the field like any other manager and if he is good enough then his chance will come . Designing terms for managers shouldn't be Fergie's business each manager must prove himself worthy of the long term stay and that includes Giggs .
I totally share your sentiments and agree there is no sure win answers. Imagine we are now in the United Board room trying to figure out what to do next. The more we try to analyse the more you see there are pros and cons in either case (foreigner who's proven vs. club legend for long term but uncertain). If you are inclined to having the former (to guarantee success), it will still be short term (because we already agree "there is only One Sir Alex"). So are we becoming City and Chelsea?
A few things we all should be glad about though are:
1. Moyes is rid of
2. Giggs is in charge for last four games (instead of keeping Moyes till end of seasons for no good reasons at all because he's proven a "not fit"
3. 4 of Class of 92 will be together at the dugout for the rest of seasons, at games where results are no longer important but these games will still be stealing the limelights of those two three titles chasers
4. The summer and next season would be so so exciting because we do not have to be dragged down by Moyes whoever is taking over.
LOL totally agree with your 4 points. I'm so happy that the reign of terror is over and we're all so filled with optimism.
Anyway I'm don't think we'll lose our identity even with a foreign coach and turn into City or Chelsea. Those two bit clubs had no identity to begin with
. The likes Real, Milano, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus have all experienced coaches of different nationalities and philosophies but still retain their core values. Bahh can't wait for the new appointment whoever it is. Let's first get the guy in and see how it goes. No point fretting over what happens 3 years down the line. The Giggs stuff sounds like sentimental nonsense to me, hiring a manager with the intention of getting rid of him in 3 years so Giggs can have the job is not how business works. What happens if we have a really good 3 years with the side improving all the time? Do we just throw that manager out because we want a man connected to the clubs past to have the job? I don't think so, it's fairytale cobblers. I think the appointment will be someone United expect to be here for a long time and produce the goods, not a stop gap before we attempt the Hollywood script. We will aim for stability.
As for Giggs, I'd love to see him go and manage in the PL for a few years and see how he progresses and see if he's actually cut out to be a manager.
As for Giggs, I'd love to see him go and manage in the PL for a few years and see how he progresses and see if he's actually cut out to be a manager.
It looks like we're going to do things properly this time and speak to the manager before actually handing them the job. The other way it might not happen is after meeting with him they decide to look elsewhere based on his plans/ideas.
Still think it's the most likely, given Ancelotti leaving Madrid seems absurd at this point.
Appointing someone with no managerial experience as manager of one of the top 5 clubs in football.
Yes, perfect.
It's the idea that the board would offer someone the United job, telling them that they are just holding fort until Giggs is "ready", that is the hilarious part. I'm sure Van Gaal etc. would love that.
But talk like this may well mean that Giggs can't be an assistant coach at all. Too destabilising for a new manager.
The Giggs stuff is ridiculous.
There is no evidence in the slightest to suggest he can take over in 3 years no matter how much he has "learnt" off Fergie. See Kidd, McClaren, Robson, Bruce, Hughes, Ince, Keane etc etc would we want any of them in charge of United in 3 years?
It is a romantic idea but Giggs should learn of the new manager, go away for a few years like Ole and then see where he is at.
Ridiculous story.
There is no evidence in the slightest to suggest he can take over in 3 years no matter how much he has "learnt" off Fergie. See Kidd, McClaren, Robson, Bruce, Hughes, Ince, Keane etc etc would we want any of them in charge of United in 3 years?
It is a romantic idea but Giggs should learn of the new manager, go away for a few years like Ole and then see where he is at.
Ridiculous story.
Far be it from me to doubt the depth of Eamonn Holmes' insight into our situation but I'm going to hang on till I see what Mick Hucknell has to say about the whole thing before I get my hopes up.
Can this season just end already so summer is here!
The MEN article summarised:
Kroos, Shaw, Cavani - Now pick a card, Mr.X.
Kroos, Shaw, Cavani - Now pick a card, Mr.X.
This is getting exciting! The possibility of signing new players, play positive football under a progressive manager and score lots of goals!
Behind door number 2: Leon Osma--oh, sorry, this is one of the last bloke's cards.
I really don't get this Cavani stuff.
Ed is the biggest transfer muppet ever. I'd be amazed if he even delivers 5% of what he's promising.
I don't want it. I don't understand it. I don't like it.
I agree. 60m, assuming RVP and Roo don't leave, is crazy. Imagine we don't get midfield targets and we sign him.
Just 3 ? A bit underwhelming after the 150 - 200 million warchest rumours. Need an LB, 2 CM, 1 Winger, possibly a CB...
I don't get it, but my dislike of Rooney is such that I'd swap Giroud for him...I'd swap Dot Cotton for him even
Doubt she'd sign. You're not allowed to smoke in the dugouts anymore.
Three targets per position, not three targets overall.Just 3 ? A bit underwhelming after the 150 - 200 million warchest rumours. Need an LB, 2 CM, 1 Winger, possibly a CB...
The likes of the Cavani rumours just seems like PR by the club to me. I know we are looking to spend this Summer but all these transfer stories are out just after the Moyes sacking - it'll be in the clubs interest to get that out of the news as soon as possible.
Ahh okay I'm so stupid.. Feel much better now..
EDIT : No hang on.. This is a very misleading article. I read it through and the content doesn't match the headline...
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It' has to be bull. When you seen what Wilson is doing in the reserve team what the point at all at looking for another striker(If RVP or Rooney are leaving then maybe but I can't see that happening at all).
If we are getting Van Gal then we must know the guy is not into big money transfer and he'd be quite happy to bench a 60m striker and play a youth team player if he thought it was the best for the team.
I think most of this is just PR from United and the only reason we'r even considering it is because United at the moment is going through at slightly manic stage and at this stage anything looks pretty believable.
If we do get van Gaal and he just as much catches a glimpse of Wilson, I'm almost certain he'd become a first team player very soon after. Not just the occasional squad one at that, too.
It hasn't been written particularly well, but it's definitely three per position:Ahh okay I'm so stupid.. Feel much better now..
EDIT : No hang on.. This is a very misleading article. I read it through and the content doesn't match the headline...
In other words, we've identified the problem positions and drafted a list of suitable targets. This was essentially the system that Moyes was credited with, iPads and bunkers, etc.
This bit's the badly phrased part - "The list is thought to include Southampton left back Luke Shaw, Bayern midfield powerhouse Toni Kroos and PSG forward Edinson Cavani", but it justs means they're supposedly on the list for their position, that's not the list itself.
according to mike keegan, Chris woods could stay at MU after leaving a good impression
So if he plays a part in Giggs getting the job soon, its not a mistake? How is it any different from the Moyes situation? At least Moyes had the experience of running a club. Im not saying no to Giggs ever, its just that he has to prove himself somewhere else.
That's an if and a pretty big one. It will also only be a mistake if it fails. I think you might be jumping the gun just a tad.
On Van Gaal / Giggs, I don't think there will be a timeframe on anything of that sort.
You can't say after 3 years he will be able to take over, maybe Van Gaal will get a 3 year contract and we'll see where things stand after perhaps, that might include keeping Van Gaal (or whoever else we're talking to) on if success is happening and Van Gaal wants to and can continue on.
In this scenario, I can see Van Gaal being manager for anywhere from 3-6 (maybe even longer, who knows?) and when Van Gaal is set to leave, then maybe Giggs can take over.
Giggs will have to be patient, the next manager will be king and Giggs could be the prince next in line to the throne.
Anyone quoting a specific time frame can only be making it up to be frank, Moyes got a six year contract and look how that panned out.....
You can't say after 3 years he will be able to take over, maybe Van Gaal will get a 3 year contract and we'll see where things stand after perhaps, that might include keeping Van Gaal (or whoever else we're talking to) on if success is happening and Van Gaal wants to and can continue on.
In this scenario, I can see Van Gaal being manager for anywhere from 3-6 (maybe even longer, who knows?) and when Van Gaal is set to leave, then maybe Giggs can take over.
Giggs will have to be patient, the next manager will be king and Giggs could be the prince next in line to the throne.
Anyone quoting a specific time frame can only be making it up to be frank, Moyes got a six year contract and look how that panned out.....
I have seen him play once, he looked hard as nails.
You've just sacked your first new manager in 26 years inside 9 months and now suddenly Van Gaal is going to be at the club for 3+ years, and in some comments 5+ years? I think you should be taking it 12 months at a time at this stage before getting carried away.
Hi, don't mind me.
Hi, don't mind me.
He's the one who took out Rodriguez in the Madrid match I think. Looked pretty decent. Not sure he's first choice for us level, he'd be back-up I guess, if true.
As much as that is depressing to read, it's true. We need to be thinking 15 to 18 months at a time.
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