Trump/Russia/SDNY investigation

Buchan said:
We've been over this countless times. Politics/political alliances isn't sport: it's not advisable to support your 'team' no matter their actions. Blind devotion to political parties is, in the current climate of politics, foolhardy. Also, with the dust settling on Obama's reign, it's not uncommon for liberals to feel disappointed about his eight years.
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You're not a liberal? What would you classify yourself in the broadest sense then?

I assume you support concepts like, jurisprudence, free speech, democracy, equality under the law? If so, you're a liberal. If you really are not liberal, I suppose North Korea is your ideal political system then, where the fundamental tenets of liberalism are not taken for granted.
 
Could it really be someone as big as Manafort at this stage? I was under the impression it'll be some little pip-squeak who'll lead them up the chain to the bigger fish?
 
Tarrou said:
Could it really be someone as big as Manafort at this stage? I was under the impression it'll be some little pip-squeak who'll lead them up the chain to the bigger fish?
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They have already raided Manafort's apartment in the early hours of the morning a couple of months back and the person on Mueller's team with the Manafort portfolio was seen at the court yesterday so the speculation is its him.....although the Wall Street Journal are suggesting it could be more than one person.

Would be pretty diabolical if its both Manafort and Flynn.
 
I'd love it to be someone huge from a purely selfish stand-point just because of this cnut...

 
Raoul said:
They have already raided Manafort's apartment in the early hours of the morning a couple of months back and the person on Mueller's team with the Manafort portfolio was seen at the court yesterday so the speculation is its him.....although the Wall Street Journal are suggesting it could be more than one person.

Would be pretty diabolical if its both Manafort and Flynn.
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I do wonder what the charges are though. I honestly doubt it's anything to do with collusion. Probably something on the grounds of money laundering.
 
MrMarcello said:
Isn't Prison Planet an offspin of InfoWars or something of the like?
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Just checked his Twitter profile and yeah, he's something to do with Infowars. Can't get much more deranged than that.

For anybody who lives under a rock and doesn't know what Infowars is, it's where all of the conspiracy shit comes from (or is given a platform once some other genius has made it up). Its host, Alex Jones, once said that chemicals being put in water were turning the frogs gay.
 
That was probably Miss Piggy, tbf.
 
ChaddyP said:
I do wonder what the charges are though. I honestly doubt it's anything to do with collusion. Probably something on the grounds of money laundering.
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Collusion isn't a crime. There is something called conspiracy, but I doubt anyone will be charged with that either. I get the impression that Mueller wants to indict either Manafort and/or Flynn to get them to flip and testify against Trump.
 
Raoul said:
Collusion isn't a crime. There is something called conspiracy, but I doubt anyone will be charged with that either. I get the impression that Mueller wants to indict either Manafort and/or Flynn to get them to flip and testify against Trump.
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There isn't a crime called collusion but there are crimes related to non-US parties contributing to election campaigns, and certainly crimes relating to aiding and abetting hostile foreign powers.
 
Raoul said:
Collusion isn't a crime. There is something called conspiracy, but I doubt anyone will be charged with that either. I get the impression that Mueller wants to indict either Manafort and/or Flynn to get them to flip and testify against Trump.
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And my honest opinion is there is no there there in terms of conspiracy collusion whatever you want to call it with Russia. There however may be a strong case for obstruction of justice which if he gets charged for that, would be hilarious :lol:.
 
ChaddyP said:
And my honest opinion is there is no there there in terms of conspiracy collusion whatever you want to call it with Russia. There however may be a strong case for obstruction of justice which if he gets charged for that, would be hilarious :lol:.
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There doesn't have to be an kind of collusion / smoking gun. There just needs to be a crime that was broken. Any crime will do as long as its a felony.
 
Two things that I'm sure will be easier to prove in terms of crimes are the undoubtedly suspect financial dealings by the Trump Organization and the obstruction of justice related to the Comey firing.
 
shabadu84 said:
Two things that I'm sure will be easier to prove in terms of crimes are the undoubtedly suspect financial dealings by the Trump Organization and the obstruction of justice related to the Comey firing.
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Absolutelly. The three lanes of inquiry that Mueller is likely looking at are:

1. Conspiracy
2. Financial Crimes
3. Obstruction of Justice
 
Raoul said:
There doesn't have to be an kind of collusion / smoking gun. There just needs to be a crime that was broken. Any crime will do as long as its a felony.
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Well yes... In the broad sense that any crime will do I am quite aware of that. As I said though, I do wonder what the charges are. After all is done I would genuinely be shocked if any charge will have something to do with Russia after the investigation is over. That's all I'm saying
 
Thought we'd have to wait a lot longer for the 1st charges. Nice that it's happening so soon.
Then we have Sanders going on about Clinton's emails again. More deflection. Wonder if she'll ask to see Kushner's emails too...
Still n'all, the emails are gold deflection material for the Repub base.
Clinton was an eejit to get into that situation.
 
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If the Trump camp was in the firing line on Monday, you can bet your bottom dollar Trump would be tweeting about Mueller's competency these past few weeks (as you guys call it, 'deflection'). There's been very, very little from Trump's camp so the obvious conclusion from that is they're content with what's on the horizon. We'll see on Monday, I guess.
 
Buchan said:
If the Trump camp was in the firing line on Monday, you can bet your bottom dollar Trump would be tweeting about Mueller's competency these past few weeks (as you guys call it, 'deflection'). There's been very, very little from Trump's camp so the obvious conclusion from that is they're content with what's on the horizon. We'll see on Monday, I guess.
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Tend to agree. Think there's really nothing to this collusion conspiracy thing. Or not to the extent it's thought /hoped to be
 
Buchan said:
If the Trump camp was in the firing line on Monday, you can bet your bottom dollar Trump would be tweeting about Mueller's competency these past few weeks (as you guys call it, 'deflection'). There's been very, very little from Trump's camp so the obvious conclusion from that is they're content with what's on the horizon. We'll see on Monday, I guess.
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They have no clue what's on the horizon. Trump has stopped attacking Mueller because his lawyers have told him to cool it and instead employ a more conciliatory approach with him. They are simultaneously creating a counternarrative about Hillary and Uranium etc to cast doubt on the investigation without attacking Mueller himself. Either way whatever they are trying won't work as Mueller will do what he has to do.
 
ChaddyP said:
Tend to agree. Think there's really nothing to this collusion conspiracy thing. Or not to the extent it's thought /hoped to be
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Or hus lawyers have told him he's barking up the wrong tree.
 
Raoul said:
They have no clue what's on the horizon. Trump has stopped attacking Mueller because his lawyers have told him to cool it and instead employ a more conciliatory approach with him. They are simultaneously creating a counternarrative about Hillary and Uranium etc to cast doubt on the investigation without attacking Mueller himself. Either way whatever they are trying won't work as Mueller will do what he has to do.
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This seems the most logical. Why would a sitting president, his staff and media mouthpieces spend so much time and effort talking about someone they beat a year ago? Because they need to blur what's going on. It's an enormous effort being put in to try to distract from what's coming because they've failed in their attempts to discredit it. That's not to say that r/thedonald haven't bought the discrediting, mind.
 
I don't get how someone can discover that we're 24 hours away from the first Grand Jury indictment in the Russia investigation being named, and think this is the right time to conclude "Clearly there's nothing there"
 
unchanged_lineup said:
This seems the most logical. Why would a sitting president, his staff and media mouthpieces spend so much time and effort talking about someone they beat a year ago? Because they need to blur what's going on. It's an enormous effort being put in to try to distract from what's coming because they've failed in their attempts to discredit it. That's not to say that r/thedonald haven't bought the discrediting, mind.
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You could literally replace Trump/Republican/The_Donald, and 'beat' with 'lost', with the left-leaning equivalent here and the statement is equally correct.
 
Buchan said:
You could literally replace Trump/Republican/The_Donald, and 'beat' with 'lost', with the left-leaning equivalent here and the statement is equally correct.
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Are you genuinely comparing Trump obsessing over the opponent he beat with people in the country expressing opinions on how the man who won is doing?

Do you think a normal course of affairs would be both that the winner moved on from the election and also that the country showed absolutely no interest in what it is the president does?
 
Oscie said:
I don't get how someone can discover that we're 24 hours away from the first Grand Jury indictment in the Russia investigation being named, and think this is the right time to conclude "Clearly there's nothing there"
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The timing of it is just weird. Leaking the info on a Friday promising a Monday arrest seems peculiar. My guess is it'll be Manafort on some low-level charge in order to keep appearances. If there was anything substantial or a major player involved here, you'd fancy it to be handled differently.
 
Buchan said:
The timing of it is just weird. Leaking the info on a Friday promising a Monday arrest seems peculiar. My guess is it'll be Manafort on some low-level charge in order to keep appearances. If there was anything substantial or a major player involved here, you'd fancy it to be handled differently.
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What date could this have happened whereby you wouldn't think it was weird?

Presumably the nearer it gets the more people are put in a need-to-know scenario, making leaks more likely.
 
Oscie said:
I don't get how someone can discover that we're 24 hours away from the first Grand Jury indictment in the Russia investigation being named, and think this is the right time to conclude "Clearly there's nothing there"
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Whilst simultaneously pushing the idea that there unequivocally is something to this Clinton uranium business. Absolute mentalists who would need to be watched carefully in the event that Trump is brought to justice.
 
Oscie said:
Are you genuinely comparing Trump obsessing over the opponent he beat with people in the country expressing opinions on how the man who won is doing?
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He's fighting fire with fire. Are you really suggesting the criticism he's receiving is solely based on his performance as President? Because that's a laugh if you do.
 
There could be nothing in it. Of course.

But the investigation has been going on for months. Mueller has been in place for months. The 'links', whether you think they're credible or not, stretch back to 2016. It's quite an impressive undertaking of spin to pretend that this has suddenly come out of nowhere and therefore to try and to suggest that because of that there's something likely suspect or doubtful about the credibility of the grand jury indictment story.
 
Buchan said:
You could literally replace Trump/Republican/The_Donald, and 'beat' with 'lost', with the left-leaning equivalent here and the statement is equally correct.
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Really? Really? Let's try it, shall we?

This seems the most logical. Why would a person who lost a year ago, her staff and media mouthpieces spend so much time and effort talking about someone that beat her a year ago? Because they need to blur what's going on. It's an enormous effort being put in to try to distract from what's coming because they've failed in their attempts to discredit it. That's not to say that (you'll have to help me out here because I have no idea what the Rabid Left version of thedonald is) haven't bought the discrediting, mind.
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See, this is utterly daft because there's an actual real investigation going on and we've already seen big chunks of where it's going with actual evidence. There's no need for the left to blur what's going on, because it's actually going on!
 
Oscie said:
Are you genuinely comparing Trump obsessing over the opponent he beat with people in the country expressing opinions on how the man who won is doing?

Do you think a normal course of affairs would be both that the winner moved on from the election and also that the country showed absolutely no interest in what it is the president does?
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I love how Obama used to constantly ramble insults about McCain, Romney and Sean Hannity on twitter and in press briefings. It was great. :rolleyes:
 
Fener1907 said:
Whilst simultaneously pushing the idea that there unequivocally is something to this Clinton uranium business. Absolute mentalists who would need to be watched carefully in the event that Trump is brought to justice.
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The Clinton Foundation is one of the most crooked enterprises (yes, an enterprise as this is one huge money-making business for the family) of the modern era. Investigators always say 'Follow the money'. Let's hope they actually do some day in relation to the Clintons.
 
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