Television True Detective | Season 2 Spoilers

Been reading some episode recaps on The Atlantic and there's a snippet from this article which really nails the reasons why Season 2 is so vastly inferior to Season 1.

I wanted to pull back and talk a little more broadly about why this season has been so disappointing relative to the first one. When True Detective burst onto the scene last year, it was big and strange and mesmerizing. There were the marvelous narrative-temporal gymnastics, somersaulting backward and forward between 1995 and 2012. There was the wild, Lovecraftian mystery behind the actual murders: Carcosa and the Yellow King, the black stars and the five men. (Sure, none of this actually led anywhere, but it was utterly fascinating right up until the final episode.) And finally, there was Rust Cohle, a sometimes maddening but mostly riveting updating of a great literary archetype: Holmes, Stephen Maturin, and in some ways even Don Quixote.

Was any of it ever moderately realistic? Of course not. Did it matter? Same answer. It was a larger-than-life exercise in Grand Guignol style and sensibility. Realism was beside the point.

The central problem with this season, as I see it, is that it’s lost that hallucinatory ambition while gaining little or nothing in the realism department. With the exception of an occasional and seemingly random detail—Caspere’s burnt-out eyes, the bird-headed assassin, Ray’s Conway Twitty death-dream—Pizzolatto has basically given us a straightforward police procedural. This season was initially billed as concerning “the secret occult history of the U.S. transportation system,” but somewhere in the process—from the looks of it, rather late in the process—Pizzolatto discarded the idea in favor of “closer character work and a more grounded crime story.” And, to date at least, the tradeoff has been a losing one.

It’s true that none of this season’s characters have the magnificent implausibility of Rust Cohle. But that doesn’t mean that any of them are actually plausible. As you guys have both noted, their dialogue often sounds like some late-night game of hard-boiled one-upmanship at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop. (“Never lost a tooth. Never even had a fecking cavity.” “You took her knife. You said you didn’t want anything else.”) Every one of the principal characters is still being oversold by Pizzolatto. It’s just not clear that any of them are worth buying at this point, in part because they’re so undifferentiated. Ray and Ani and Paul and Frank all have parental issues, and sex issues, and intimacy issues, and violence issues, and (with the possible exception of Frank) substance-abuse issues. They’re almost interchangeable apart from the facts that Ani’s a woman, Frank’s a crook, and Paul is sexually confused. And there are just too many of them to be allotted the individual attention that Rust and Marty received last season.

As a result, I’ve found this season to be a kind of fictional-representation version of the “uncanny valley” phenomenon: neither realistic enough to be persuasive (like, say, The Sopranos or The Wire), nor enough of an outright fantasy (like season one) to be enjoyed on its own terms, however unrealistic. I’d love for this to change, but with each passing week it seems less likely that it will.
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Uzz said:
It's a reference to ep 2 (I think) when Vince stares at the ceiling and notices there's a water stain and goes onto some long, troubling story from his childhood.
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Ok, I remember that scene now, but it had no bearing on what the current scene was encompassing. It was just crow-barred in.
 
Ish84045 said:
but come on guys, it's very difficult to compare the show with other tv shows' drop in quality.

Not many other shows embark on a totally new cast/plot/location each season. So it's kinda unique in that sense and IMO, much more difficult to keep the quality - especially if season 1 was as big a success as TD was.
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This is true. It's more like comparing CSI: Las Vegas to CSI: West Virginia or whatever the latest one is.

I was willing to give it a bit more credit than most on here after the first couple of episodes but I've been really disappointed with the last 3.

It's getting to the stage where I'm actually angry every time Kitsch and his bullshit is on the screen and I'm even starting to get annoyed with Farrell.

The lack of empathy for the characters is shocking. Farrell went from deadbeat on the edge of oblivion to a sober, upstanding member of society in the space of 5 minutes and then from the middle of a shocking gun battle, to a new job several months later with scant reference given to the emotional impact of the event.

That would all be fine if the plot was so good we couldn't wait to find out more but I honestly couldn't give a shit who killed a few hookers and a politician so they can get some land on a railway line.

All in all it's a waste of one of the best opening credits sequences I've ever seen.
 
diarm said:
This is true. It's more like comparing CSI: Las Vegas to CSI: West Virginia or whatever the latest one is.

I was willing to give it a bit more credit than most on here after the first couple of episodes but I've been really disappointed with the last 3.

It's getting to the stage where I'm actually angry every time Kitsch and his bullshit is on the screen and I'm even starting to get annoyed with Farrell.

The lack of empathy for the characters is shocking. Farrell went from deadbeat on the edge of oblivion to a sober, upstanding member of society in the space of 5 minutes and then from the middle of a shocking gun battle, to a new job several months later with scant reference given to the emotional impact of the event.

That would all be fine if the plot was so good we couldn't wait to find out more but I honestly couldn't give a shit who killed a few hookers and a politician so they can get some land on a railway line.

All in all it's a waste of one of the best opening credits sequences I've ever seen.
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Aye, can't disagree with any of that, though I found episode 5 decent, especially in terms of plot moving along. Yeah but still, it's been a painful watch.
 
LARulz said:
I'm thinking it's deliberate for Frank to have these bullshit sayings, and not just completely piss poor writing
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I think so too. As someone already mentioned, Rust in S1 also had his bullshit sayings but we had Hart as a counter balance. I was counting on his wife to be that person but she appears to have picked up the habbit. She'd be absolutely pointless character if I didn't find Kelly Reilly so damn fine.
 
It's hard not to compare it to the first season but I think it'll all come together nicely in the final three episodes.

I'm feeling there will be one hell of a twist but I'm not sure what it is going to be.
 
Finally got caught up. I enjoyed the latest episode and thought it had some of the strongest acting so far this season. The juxtaposition of the fat ginger kid munching on a pizza to Colin Farrell losing his shit and doing his best Bad Lieutenant impression made me smile.

The show is entertaining, just not in the way Nic Pizzolatto intended. Quickly becoming a parody of itself. Sex (check), drugs (check), murder (check), decades of corruption (check), police investigation (check), flashbacks (check). Besides the comical writing, the story is pretty silly. Masuka, the police chief w/ afro, the Russian dude, and the guy running the land deals all at the same Eyes Wide Shut party? :wenger:

You'd hope the writers are taking the piss, but I doubt it. Jotted some of Vince Vaughn's lines that stood out:

- Never do anything out of hunger, not even eating
- Sometimes your worst self, is your best self
- It stymies my retribution. It's like blue balls in your heart
- Crime exists contingent on human desire. These were the avenues left me.
- You love me, you're with me. And maybe, you love me if you're not with me

I mean, what human being fecking talks like this? Let alone a career criminal type. Although I can see the humor in it, it's still disappointing to see Pizzolatto come up with this pretentious bullshit. It'd be tough for Daniel Day-Lewis to make those lines sound believable, let alone an actor as limited as VV.

While still visually beautiful, this season has more of a stylish, noir quality to it than the gritty white trashiness of last season. Someone brought up a Twin Peaks analogy (besides the empty bar with the sad singer I'm not really seeing it), but I'm getting more of a LA Confidential/Chinatown vibe. While obviously not of the same overall quality as last season, it's still pretty to look at.

I'm still confused about the blue diamonds that were stolen in the '92 riots. Is that simply meant to imply that the corruption has been going on for this long? And who was the fat cop working for?
 
As far as the episode goes, I thought it was decent. I've gotten over the show's various flaws and am just enjoying it for what it is. The last two episodes have been very good.
 
That was a really good episode. If the final two are as good as the last two it will have been a very good series overall.

The criticism of Frank's dialogue is overblown as well. IMO it is knowingly written as over the top and self indulgent: It represents how Frank sees himself.
 
Wtf was the crap music they kept using in the last 5-10 mins ? It made the supposedly tense situation, seem like a fecking joke. Another Frank special "If that's the kind of thing that keeps you out of heaven, I don't want to go."
 
I agree that the music was a strange choice for the last act. Seemed to be the score from an old classical film as the backdrop to a load of hookers and 2 lads running around playing Mission Impossible. Much better episode though.
 
If the series started with the last 2 episodes it would have the makings of a very good series
We had protagonists and everything!
 
kouroux said:
Wtf was the crap music they kept using in the last 5-10 mins ? It made the supposedly tense situation, seem like a fecking joke. Another Frank special "If that's the kind of thing that keeps you out of heaven, I don't want to go."
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Thought the same. It was like some sort of 80's show. A little too dramatic for a scene that wasn good but not THAT big.
 
Most of that episode was shite. Velcoro's scenes are decent, though.

Bezzerides looked really good. Sad about her childhood though.

I suppose we're getting closer to ending and finding things out.

The whole interaction with those Mexican gangsters was laughably bad.

This episode and last episode have seen a slight upturn in quality compared to the first 4 episodes of shite.
 
Anyone notice the intro was longer for the last two episodes, or am I tripping?
 
Feck it, I've really enjoyed the whole season and think it's gotten better every week. The last twenty minutes of that episode were brilliant, and absolutely terrifying. Was convinced that McAdams or Kitsch would get killed off.
 
Man of Leisure said:
While still visually beautiful, this season has more of a stylish, noir quality to it than the gritty white trashiness of last season. Someone brought up a Twin Peaks analogy (besides the empty bar with the sad singer I'm not really seeing it), but I'm getting more of a LA Confidential/Chinatown vibe. While obviously not of the same overall quality as last season, it's still pretty to look at.
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Those are the two main influences IMO, with the story straight out of one of Ellroy's books.
 
Better episode, still suffers from dragging its heals when there is no need.

- I still have no idea who Stan is or was and anything relating to his death has zero impact because the character simply never even got established.

- I've worked out why Frank talks so much shite, its because he has to eat it from so many people, I'm kinda hoping he gets a payoff in the end because for a "tough" character he's basically done nothing but talk shit and eat shit.

- Rachel McAdams looked fantastic and finally we got some insight into her characters past.

- I think Pizzaman wrote a season involving huge amounts of obsene stuff just so he could hang around on set and watch it.

- I also still have no idea what's happening 80% of the time, blue diamonds, fat pussy child eating pizza, Ray getting fecked up again, Ani knows how to stab someone directly under the balls, Frank eats more shit and has a Mexican stand off with Mexicans, bisexual man knows how to open everything with a knife, a missing person we haven't seen or heard about in forever.
 
Leg-End said:
- I also still have no idea what's happening 80% of the time, blue diamonds, fat pussy child eating pizza, Ray getting fecked up again, Ani knows how to stab someone directly under the balls, Frank eats more shit and has a Mexican stand off with Mexicans, bisexual man knows how to open everything with a knife, a missing person we haven't seen or heard about in forever.
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What didn't make sense to you from that list? The only bit there that's silly is Kistch's seemingly unending levels of luck. :lol:
 
It was more a list of amusing/interesting things that happened in the episode.

I understand the plot, I get the motivations for the characters but the flow and mish mash of scenes just ruin any actual potential for an interesting story. Nobody can tell me this is a coherent plot.
 
Who the feck was Stan?? The only person I can think of is the guy they found dead in the basement of that business or warehouse or wherever the feck they were a few of episodes back...he was one of VV guys. We saw RM past but we already knew what happened to her....decent season but some of these episodes seem a bit Hollywood...such as last nights episode, they break in this high security house, steal documents, and get away scot free....how were they at the same door RM just happened to be running out of?
 
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Everything about this season is so ridiculously over the top that I can't take it seriously anymore. Frank with his usual inane shit and Velcoro with his over the top threats.
 
akash02 said:
Everything about this season is so ridiculously over the top that I can't take it seriously anymore. Frank with his usual inane shit and Velcoro with his over the top threats.
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That's the thing for me, it's become a total parody of itself. Once you stop trying to take it seriously, the more enjoyable it becomes. Obviously, I don't think that's what Nic Pizzolatto intended as that'd be quite a departure from last season.
 
I kind of zoned out for 80% of that episode until all the shagging started and then "oh look I found a ledger detailing all the bad guy stuff' finished off the episode in typical fashion.

Although to be fair, I don't need to suspend my disbelief as much as that fat ugly ginger kid does. Poor lad!

I've undertaken a seismic shift in expectations just to get through it. Starting from GOAT level anticipation after season one, descending to blockbustery "well it's gonna be shit so just try and make the most of it" level stuff.
 
Pscholes18 said:
Who the feck was Stan?? The only person I can think of is the guy they found dead in the basement of that business or warehouse or wherever the feck they were a few of episodes back...he was one of VV guys. We saw RM past but we already knew what happened to her....decent season but some of these episodes seem a bit Hollywood...such as last nights episode, they break in this high security house, steal documents, and get away scot free....how were they at the same door RM just happened to be running out of?
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Good question tbh. Really, who the feck was Stan ?
http://www.pajiba.com/true_detective/who-the-hell-is-stan-on-true-detective.php

This is so spot on http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...oundtable-episode-six-church-in-ruins/399602/
Again: Sometimes a thing happens. Splits your life. There’s a before and after. I got like five of them at this point.

That’s the problem: I get like five of them with every episode of True Detective I watch, and I can hardly keep up with how many each of the principal characters have accumulated at this point. Off the top of my head ... Ray: killed his wife’s presumed rapist and lost his family; got shot and got a second chance; participated in the bloodiest shootout in modern law-enforcement history; learned he killed the wrong guy and lost his family even more. Ani: raped as a child by a Manson-y character who offered a VW van and a promise of unicorns (at least based on tonight’s evidence); mother committed suicide; participated in bloodiest shootout in etc, etc.; pretended to be a hooker, stabbing multiple people and (apparently) killing at least one. Paul: Mysterious Burns; Horror in the Desert; Terrible Sexual Secret (plus: bloodiest shootout). Frank: Dark Rat Basement; his I Went Legit But They Stole All My Money Anyway act; Whatever Other Things He Mentioned To Stan’s Kid But Hasn’t Shared With Us. (Yet.)
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Man of Leisure said:
That's the thing for me, it's become a total parody of itself. Once you stop trying to take it seriously, the more enjoyable it becomes. Obviously, I don't think that's what Nic Pizzolatto intended as that'd be quite a departure from last season.
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Was watching the latest episode last night and turned to my wife and said, "Whats going on here? Whats this about? Its not half as good as season 1". I then decided that I would continue to watch without investing all of my concentration trying to piece this mish-mash together. Then we had the scene with the cops sneaking in to the sleazy brothel and I was suckered back into the drama. I will continue to watch as there is only 4 episodes left !
 
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