Did knee-jerk "political correctness" write your post for you?
Since you clearly wish to know, I'm not a fan of Peterson and see him as a shill for the American alt-right/Trump cult.
Transgender rights discussion
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
Did knee-jerk "political correctness" write your post for you?
Since you clearly wish to know, I'm not a fan of Peterson and see him as a shill for the American alt-right/Trump cult.
The fact that he and they both make heavy use of that kind of rhetoric should be a sign that maybe you're on the wrong side.
Just like how people not taking you seriously on the topic of Spurs proves that Spurs is going to win any minute now. The fact that you're a meme is just because people can't compete with you.
You mean persecuting, stirring up hatred, spreading conspiracy theories and taking away rights?
I'm sorry, but you are woefully out of touch with the reality of trans-ideology in its absolutist form - which is what my posts have been about.
Lesbian women have been accused of transphobia for the reason I gave.
Many trans-ideologists insist that transwomen are literally women. There are many examples of this. For example, one of the current co-leaders of the Green Party has been widely criticised for tweeting that women are commonly defined as “... typified by two XX chromosomes”. Apparently daring to state a scientific fact is now also transphobic.
As for your other comment, you can respect someone's right to self-identify in any way that they wish, and treat them decently (e.g. use their preferred pronouns if they happen to state what these are), without necessarily sharing their beliefs. In similar vein, you can respect someone's beliefs in God or atheism, without having to share those beliefs.
Still ducking my questions I see. What a surprise, from someone who asked for specifics then bugged out when given some.
I assume this is a joke. You know that when someone asks for specifics on one topic they're not asking for specifics on another topic? Like if I ask for specifics on how British colonialism benefited India, specifics on why Spurs will win the league or how anti-depressants don't work isn't an answer?
And, as I said, I doubt those who've done so are much more than a tiny minority.
Trans women are literally women, though. The argument is that there's difference between gender and sex, but erasing that distinction to try and make trans people and those who support them look ridiculous is a tried and true tactic (as you've so aptly demonstrated).
It's funny that literally every attempt at defining the word "woman" in a way that excludes trans women invariably ends up excluding another group of women as well. It's almost as if they're making shit up as they go along.
Ah, so hollow gestures. Not sure that qualifies as either respectful nor decent.
"I'm not trans exclusive, I just don't believe that trans women are women!"
The only argument for TERF being a slur is that a lot of them are just trans exclusive. Then a portion of these people are feminists, and way fewer are actually radicals.
The only argument for TERF being a slur is that a lot of them are just trans exclusive. Then a portion of these people are feminists, and way fewer are actually radicals.
What kind of rhetoric? The fact is that extremists exist in significant numbers when it comes to absolutist forms of trans-ideology. They will brook no discussion, call any criticism "transphobia", publish the home address of people like J.K Rowling and encourage activists to stand outside her house, call "transphobic" any scientific fact that doesn't square with their ideology, want words associated with biological sex to be abolished - e.g. not breast-feeding but "chest-feeding" when midwives talk in certain contexts - lest it offend their ideological beliefs, and push the notion that (for instance) a man who transitions to female, but stays sexually attracted to women, can count as a lesbian.
These things are not rhetoric, they are all things that are are happening.
Maybe you should consider whether what you see as "virtue-signalling" and being "politically correct" may in fact be leading you to falsely believe that are "sides" to be taken. For myself, I'm entirely happy for anyone to self-identify as they wish, provided they don't seek to force their beliefs on me or society in general.
The LGB Alliance is a hate group.
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No. More the ones who criticize how far the US seems to have gone the other way in terms of their sensitivity to having a discussion. Maybe it's not a right thing but more a centrist thing I'm referring to. But then again as an outsider the whole left right thing over there can be confusing.
Okay no idea who that is but any unbiased sources to read up on this? Or maybe something that explains the stance of both sides of the debate to understand the "war" going on.
There are currently a big push for anti-LGBT+ legislation in the US, with special focus on the T, so I'm not sure what you mean about "the other way". Several states are trying to criminalize gender affirming treatment, and you have a large part of the right calling people groomers just for saying that trans people exist. This is not just about trans people, of course, a large part of the right are including gay cis people as well.
Why are you quoting "virtue-signalling" and "politically correct" to me like they're things I've mentioned?
And yeah, basically your post counts as the kind of rhetoric I was talking about, so that's cleared that up. Your last point in particular is honestly bizarre to me. I assume you'd call a trans woman she and not he, so what is the problem with calling a trans woman in a relationship with a cis woman a lesbian?
And as I've said, you are woefully out of touch with the reality.
You're of course entitled to your belief that "Trans women are literally women", but of course they aren't literally women. Instead they self-identify as female and pursue that desire/belief to varying degrees, none of which can erase their male genetics or (for the most part) their male physiology, or their lived experience - from birth to transition-date - as being seen as the male gender as recorded at their birth.
It is just ideological magical thinking to believe that trans women are literally women, and it's just perceived political correctness to go around saying it. The vast, vast majority of people do not believe that trans women are literally women and no amount of word-twisting will convince them otherwise, though most will not venture public opinions on the subject - especially if they work in the public sector - for fear of being potentially persecuted by ideological fanatics.
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Did you just silent majority this thing?
Right.
Right.
I'm mentioning "virtue-signalling" and "politically correctness" because IMO they reflect your stated views.
You don't see a problem with calling someone a "lesbian" when they may well have a cock and testicles, not to mention male genetics, male bone-structure (etc etc) and lived social and cultural experience (possibly for most of their life to date), as a perceived male? If so, no sensible discussion is possible.
Ah, I see. You're one of those buzz-word debaters (sorry, "debaters"). No sensible discussion is possible, indeed.
Do you believe that no such silent majority exists? Or is this just something else - like biological gender - to be magically wished away?
Being a majority doesn't necessarily make a majority view right (often it doesn't), but this majority view exists nonetheless, and overwhelming so. And frankly, the more that "progressives" push trans-ideology, the more, unfortunately, they are providing a huge political gift to the likes of the Trumpian alt-right ... which is why the latter are eager to contest elections on such grounds.
I'd say you're unbelievable, but the truth is you're just OG Glaston, same as it ever was
It's come to quite a pass when lesbians, gays and bisexuals - many of whom will have experienced hostility and hatred because of their sexual preferences - are now being branded as a "hate group" because they dare to express concerns or criticism about any aspect of trans-ideology.
It's a symptom of just how absolutist trans-ideology has become.
If this is your preferred direction for society's evolution then count me out.
"chest-feeding" and midwives in the same sentence.
Yes, it is ironic - a reflection of just how absurd the direction of trans-ideology has become. But wait a year or two, and some trans-ideologists will want "midwives" replaced with "midpeople".
You should go to a gay bar and start talking about how great the LGB Alliance is and see how many lesbians, gays and bisexuals agree with you.
This is a lie. This is not an invitation to a discussion, I'm just pointing out that you are a liar. You are dishonestly equivocating between being a part of the LGB Alliance and expressing concern. It's transparent and rotten behaviour, which for certain people is par for the course. It's similar to when members of far-right groups claim that they're targeted just because they're "critical of mass immigration".
Next they'll want "police officer" instead of "policeman". Or "firefighter" instead of "fireman". Or "flight attendant" instead of "steward"/"stewardess". Any day now.
It's political correctness virtue signalling gone mad.
I haven't said that the LGB Alliance is "great". Instead, I've implied it's not great when lesbians, gays or bisexuals are branded as "hate" mongerers if they dare to question any aspect of trans-ideology.
And by the way, the absolutist trans-stance of Stonewall - who like to claim that they represent most LGB people - is rapidly losing them support (and clients) across the board. Go figure.
False analogy. They are called midwives because, understandably, most women want a woman to advise and attend to them during the course of their pregnancy, not least because many midwives will already have gone through the bodily experience of pregnancy themselves.
What kind of nonsense argument is this? You could literally make the same argument about any previously gendered job title or description, which today has a more common gender neutral modern word. Just saying "false analogy" doesn't mean shit.
I think I'm probably allowed to call a group that claims to represent me and in fact pushes views that I, along the vast majority of lesbians, gays and bisexuals, think are hateful, a hate group.
There is no lie and your post make no sense. The LBG Alliance is being accused of transphobia precisely because they express concern over aspects of trans-ideology. Why else do you imagine they're being targeted?
You're allowed to call anyone anything that you want, legality and morals aside. But you're calling them a "hate group" doesn't make it true. Indeed, I wonder if anyone, anywhere, has ever ventured an opinion critical of any aspect of trans-ideology without it being labelled "hate-speech". Perhaps you could enlighten us.
No, you couldn't, which is why it's a false analogy.
You're the best thing that can happen to the trans cause. Please keep posting. Get national attention and even professor Blackstock will change her mind.
Of course you could. Besides, your post isn't even true. They're simply called midwives because that meant someone who is with a woman. That's all there is to it. Traditionally those were primarily women, and that remains today. But the majority of police officers and firefighters are also still men, and yet we've largely moved on from policeman and fireman as official terms. And I've no doubt that when these changes were proposed a few decades ago, people like you wrote into the Daily Mail ranting about extremists and "feminist ideology", and making slippery slope arguments about what comes next. Just like people even today talk about gay marriage, and the gay agenda, and say next people are going to want to marry dogs, or children, or their computer.
You're now those people, you just don't realize it.
Out
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGB_Alliance
Take a look. It's OK to be wrong, stop digging your grave.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/lgb-alliance-gay-venues-pride-monkeypox-twitter/
Take a look. It's OK to be wrong, stop digging your grave.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/lgb-alliance-gay-venues-pride-monkeypox-twitter/
" The group has said that the LGBT rights movement in the UK has "never demanded that society change its laws, its activities and its language to accommodate us" and that the focus was instead on building bridges. "
Funniest sentence ever written?
I’ve no idea who she is and no opinion on whether she’s a bad or good feminist. I was just commenting on the content of that tweet.
Getting back on topic, the same point could be made here. Whether we like it or not, there are a hell of a lot of good and reasonable people who struggle with some aspects of trans ideology and they vastly out-number the assholes and bigots who disagree with all of it.
Always assuming bad intentions and aiming hatred and disdain at everyone who won’t get on board with everything you believe is not helpful at all. That’s also a big factor in the growing divide. Which is not exclusively caused by the shadowy hate groups that everyone loves to talk about.
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