Nibali just has that extra gear when he needs it. He's riding the race on his own terms. Impressive and easy.
Tour de France 2014
- Thread starter Flying Fox
- Start date
He's been riding like a champ since his 3rd place in the tour 2 years ago.....Plus the time gaps to the rest aren't that big if you consider Contador and Froome have crashed out and would have been expected to be within the 4 mins 37 seconds that Valverde is currently behind in 2nd place on the GC.
Peloton aren't going to catch the front 2!
Oh shit! on the line 10 m out!
Great stage today. Feel for Jack Bauer; he was agonisingly close to nailing that one from over 200km out.
Tough.
Tough.
Damnit Jack, though he'll have another chance in 24 hours.
Norway tho!
The peloton looks terrifying!
That shot of a hundred riders, or whatever, streaming round the bends down the mountain within inches of each other, must be doing, what, 60-65Ks?
Downhill it will be closer to 80-90 km/h. They sometimes reach 100+ as well. Depends a bit on the mountain itself and especially the bends.
Nibali is built like a climber; he's a light weight. To win on cobbles you need power & strength, that's why riders like Cancellara and Boonen are so successful in Paris Roubaix. I'm afraid the whole Astana team is suspect to say the least.
You also need technique,class and crucially, form. Nibali has all 3 in abundance.
Look at Kwiatkowski, a climber's build too - finishing just behind Cancellara. Lars Boom finished 3 mins down in Paris Roubaix yet won this stage on the Tour. Terpstra, winner of Roubaix finished almost 4 mins down in 43rd place .
The whole Astana team are no more suspect than your statements are dogmatic.
Lars Boom is built to win Paris Roubaix. Astana's team manager, the notorious doper Alexander Vinokourov, still denies ever doping as well as heavily criticising Nibali's performances this season prior to the Tour. Go figure...
With Nibali in this kind of form it makes me even angrier that Contador got injured. Would have been a brilliant fight for the yellow and now it's just become a procession. White jersey competition seems to be close between the two French riders but I just can't bring myself up toget excited about that competition.
I think neither Contador or Froome would have stood a chance against Nibali on this 'form'.
Impossible to tell. I don't think Nibali would have dropped Contador or anything like that, but whether Contador would have erased the time Nibali had on him after the cobbles, who knows.
Shame that with so many big names and brits out the GC has turned out to be such a procession. Really thought it could be wide open once Contador went out.
I'm sure you're trying to insinuate something, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is...
Where will Nibali end up on this list of dopers after today's Hautacam climb?
Sky shot themselves in the foot with not sorting the Wiggins/Froome handbags.
Pretty depressing Tour, I think. Would have loved to see Contador vs Nibali.
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Sky did the absolute right thing with Wiggins, well they may have been able to win a couple of TT stages, probably not, but maybe, if he was there. But the goal was yellow, not a couple of TT stages. He's not the 2009-12 climber he was, which wasn't exactly amazingly elite anyway, could definitely hold his own, but not a mountains stage winner, and 9 times out of 10, you have to be capable of winning in the mountains to win the tour. TT tailored tours are rare.
Baffling from Nibali though, if he's on anything....he's not shying away from the accusations, which kinda makes me think he's going for the reverse effect, hoping that by dominating too much, people won't question him. No chance. If he wins the TT.......
Baffling from Nibali though, if he's on anything....he's not shying away from the accusations, which kinda makes me think he's going for the reverse effect, hoping that by dominating too much, people won't question him. No chance. If he wins the TT.......
Strange to see these kind of allegations towards Nibali now. As if his results are surprising in any way. He simply is the best stage rider in the world after Froome, Quintana and Contador. Has been for years. The three of them aren't here (anymore) and you would simply expect Nibali to be a class above the rest that is still in the Tour. He's won the Giro twice already and the Vuelta. Was also at the podium of the Tour in 2012. And now his best years as a stage rider are starting.
And by the way, his time on Hautacam today was only the 26th ever in the Tour, despite going full gas pretty much from the start of the climb, having tail wind, the stage being quite short and the weather being good.
So all in all, there's absolutely nothing that suggests he's doing anything funny.
And by the way, his time on Hautacam today was only the 26th ever in the Tour, despite going full gas pretty much from the start of the climb, having tail wind, the stage being quite short and the weather being good.
So all in all, there's absolutely nothing that suggests he's doing anything funny.
I just wish they'd sorted it earlier, it's been festering since 2012.
I also think Wiggins, after his dismal last season, did so well in Paris–Roubaix and with the California win showed he really wanted to be in it at the Tour. I believed him when he claimed he'd ride as a domestique for Froome, but maybe that's naïve.
So, Nibali's Hautacam climb is the 26th quickest of all-time, and the best since Armstrong in 2008.
In fact, if you omit all pre-1997 times when the tour adopted UCI-promoted 50% hematrocrit rule, Nibali's time is second only to Armstrong's in Hautacam history. Not to mention that his time today meant he covered the climb 500m faster than any of his rivals today.
Interesting.
In fact, if you omit all pre-1997 times when the tour adopted UCI-promoted 50% hematrocrit rule, Nibali's time is second only to Armstrong's in Hautacam history. Not to mention that his time today meant he covered the climb 500m faster than any of his rivals today.
Interesting.
tbf, it's also going to be 4 winners in a row, where nothing on the leaderboards has changed.....and really nothing has severely tainted them in the years after either. Some of Froome's stuff last year was insane, but it's been a year now, and next to nothing, even Lance didn't get a year before Walsh & co were well on his case with partial legit evidence.
In fact the only one of the top 3 finishers on the last day of the 2011 onwards tours with any real questions on him was Franky boy. Good going cycling.
In fact the only one of the top 3 finishers on the last day of the 2011 onwards tours with any real questions on him was Franky boy. Good going cycling.
Far from interesting actually. Not sure why you're insisting on comparing apples and pears.
First of all, there have only been two other finishes on Hautacam since 1997 (in 2000 and 2008).
The first one in 2000 came after a 205km stage that went over the Marie-Blanque and the Aubisque, before starting the final climb. On top of that, it was a cold and very rainy day. Completely uncomparable to today's 145km stage in great conditions (and with tailwind on the climb!).
In 2008 the stage itself was more comparable (dry weather, only 10km longer than today) but that time the top riders in the GC didn't ride full out during the whole climb. There were several small attacks, but in between there were plenty of recuperation moments as well. On top of that, there was a headwind that day. Also, that Tour was just a weak Tour as far as climbers were concerned and cycling was already partly cleaned up.
Because of all these differences in circumstances it's really ridiculous to compare the times in those two climbs with Nibali's today who had all the elements in his favour and who went 100% over the entire climb.
Really don't understand why people want to use these kind of arguments every time. Same thing with Froome last year. Although to be fair, his climbing times really were remarkable. But still silly to use those as some kind of proof for using doping.
Took a lot to beat Contador staring out Lance and saying goodbye chump on Verbier, but Froomes Ventoux will always be my favourite climb. Seeing Wiggins win the tour was nice, but Froome winning it via ripping up his rivals on Ventoux, amazing. And sitting on his saddle too! #SpinningIsWinning
Ventouxs my favourite, such a beautiful climb. Gotta do it next year.
Ventouxs my favourite, such a beautiful climb. Gotta do it next year.
It's a legendary climb for many reasons, but there are many climbs in the Alps that are much more fun and challenging to climb in my opinion.
My favorite two will always be the Cime de la Bonette (also a moon landscape at the top, which is at 2800+m) and the Colle delle Finestre. That last one is probably the most challenging I ever did. 20 steep kilometers of which the first 10km are asphalt followed by 10km on some sort of dirt/gravel road. They included it in the Giro a few times. Made a small movie on the bike with my phone during the clim. Just to get an idea:
I hope to get to the Pyrenees next year. From what I see on tv every year, the landscape is even more beautiful than in the Alps, and the mountains are different as well (much less regular).
I do agree with your post in general, but have to disagree regarding Froome.
I'm not saying Froome is doping; I don't want it to be true, but what happened there in 2011?
The greatest transformation in any sport, Sky's not given us any info, and he's still riding like a granny. Just the meanest churning-out-watts granny of all time.
Not a Froome fan.
In the case of Froome winning the yellow jersey last year he showed form leading right up to the the TdF and Froome looked more vulnerable & human than Nibali this year (i.e. Froome losing time on that flat stage as well as in the final mountain stage of the Tour in 2013). Nibali has looked terrible all season right up to the tour, has looked insanely dominant during the tour (far more so than Froome in 2013) and Nibali rides for a suspect team & suspect team boss. Nibali has even been holding himself back the past 2 weeks. If Nibali had really tried he would be 30 minutes up on his nearest rival and I honestly don't think either Contador & Froome would have beaten Nibali at this year's tour.
Sorry for the insinuations, but one thing I've learned during my 30 years of following professional cycling is that when things look to good to be true, they usually are.
Sorry for the insinuations, but one thing I've learned during my 30 years of following professional cycling is that when things look to good to be true, they usually are.
Could be. After everything that came out these last years, I'm never going to vouch for any rider anymore. But I do believe that Sky has revolutionarised cycling and professionalised it immensely. You have to realise that the training schemes and ideas they were using until recently were still pretty much the same as in the 80s. Many teams have copied their training methods and climbing methods already. Including Nibali by the way.
But I get annoyed when people yell 'doping!' every time someone is performing well. It's a matter of having respect for cyclists in my opinion. Most of them are doing everything for their sport. If you see what they have to do and what they have to give up to reach the top in this sport (or even a respectable level) then I think you have to be really sure of yourself before calling somebody a cheat. Because if they're not, it must really hurt if you continuously get these accusations thrown at you.
There is the principle of being innocent until proven guilty and this goes for cyclists as well in my opinion.
I do agree, and I want to believe, trust me. I'm also not going all 'Doping!', just feeling a bit uneasy, is all. Wiggins 2012 just skirted the edges of believable.
Froome? Well, it's like Lourdes. Might be -- I'm not going to piss on your parade, but it's one step too far for me.
Nibali has proven in previous years (also with Liquigas) to be a world class cyclist and a great talent though. Both in the climbing classics, as well as in the grand tours. His performances this year in the Tour aren't really a surprise. Actually, it's exactly what you would expect from him in this Tour without Froome and Contador. Especially if you consider that Pinot, Bardet, Péraud, Valverde et al. are his main competitors this year. Riders who didn't even reach the top 7 in last year's Tour...
The competition is just very weak which makes him stand out. His previous results this year don't necessarily mean anything. If you focus your whole season on one goal, you can use other races for building up as well. Many riders do that every year for the Tour. It's true that Froome performed pretty constant over last year, winning Romandie, the Dauphiné and some other smaller stage races, but this could also be seen as a sign of his supremacy. In modern cycling, it's very difficult to perform a whole year round. Froome's results last year were just abnormally good (and I don't mean that in a bad way). If you look at other riders focussing fully on the Tour (such as Mollema, Vandenbroeck, Contador, Ten Dam, Bardet, Pinot, Péraud, etc), they don't win a lot either in the first half of the year. If your team gives you the freedom to only focus on that one goal and don't put any pressure on you to perform elsewhere, it's probably even better not to go too deep in races before the Tour. The fresher you are, the better.
Also, Nibali's 4th place and 7th place in Romandie and the Dauphiné are not 'terrible'. Especially given the fact that for the Dauphiné for example, of the six riders finishing before him, Kelderman is not in the Tour, Contador is out, Talansky is out, Vandenbroeck has had several crashes, virus infections and what not.
I have my suspicions about most riders, just as I am suspicious of top athletes. You see these guys coming back from bans for doping offenses and then they're running or riding just as fast as they were before they got convicted for doping yet people will somehow rationalise it so that it's possible for somebody to perform just as well without doping as they were when they were doping. It's not just foolish, it's simply physiologically impossible. The times aren't what they once were in the tour due to the 50% hematocrit ruling, which has at least protected riders from excessive abuses, but you'll never convince me tour winners aren't using blood transfusions.
No doubt in my mind that the top guys are doing what Lance Armstrong was doing. I think most sportsmen and women do it at the top level, football included.
Spanish doctors were at the forefront of the use of EPO in cycling and I don't think it's a coincidence that at the same time a Spanish player starts dominating tennis and Barcelona and the Spanish national team start dominating football.
Maybe I'm just too cynical, though.
Spanish doctors were at the forefront of the use of EPO in cycling and I don't think it's a coincidence that at the same time a Spanish player starts dominating tennis and Barcelona and the Spanish national team start dominating football.
Maybe I'm just too cynical, though.
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Agree 100%.