Top 5 biggest Football clubs in the world.

Probably something like:
Real Madrid
Barcelona/Bayern
Man Utd/Liverpool
Juventus/Milan
Ajax?

Tended to prioritize current status (and implicitly finances) over other factors. Barcelona probably still carry greater cachet than Bayern (backed by infinite historic star power and no small amount of romanticism), but it's difficult to ignore the fact that Bayern are actually more successful, and have had a couple of lower profile but amazing teams of their own in recent memory. Milan are very much a faded force now (structurally or globally). The gap between Liverpool and United has never* really been as massive as between the other duos here. MU are probably in danger of largely following Milan in a few years, even if playing in the Premier League will likely shield them from the worst of it.

Ajax are ninth because their actual history is difficult for me to ignore at this point, but there are obviously plenty of other metrics by which they're almost hopelessly behind a battery of other clubs now.


*Since I've started watching mid-late Nineties, anyway.
 
Gio said:
More fans through the turnstiles - an extra 14 million in the history of the English league - reflecting United's extra reach.
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More glory supporters doesn't equal bigger club, or the LA Raiders would be the biggest NFL team on the planet despite them leaving LA 20 years ago.

When Liverpool win their 20th this season, they'll be equal with United there, and be ahead in all the others bar the FA Cup. They'll likely win their 3rd league cup on the trot in a month or so, and possibly a 7th European cup. You're viewing things through rose-tinted glasses if you think United are bigger.

I support Hull. We've won nothing, I have no dog in the fight - Liverpool are the bigger club in my opinion. United live on past glories, that will pass, fans will age. It's already happening. Liverpool are top of the league, in another final, and topped the CL group with ease. United are 13th, in the also ran European competition and can't win a game at home for toffee. Bigger club, or a fallen giant?

Go have a wander round London, Paris, Sydney, New York etc. You'll see how big United are. If you spot a red shirt that's not Liverpool, Arsenal or AC Milan, I'd be surprised. Even Chelsea sell more shirts in certain territories which shows heritage means little to certain generations.

And not to sound obvious, but of course United get more fans through the turnstiles when it's the biggest gate in England - by that metric Celtic is the biggest club in Britain. A lot of PL clubs could sell a game 3 times over. Apart from City of course.
 
Frostie said:
More glory supporters doesn't equal bigger club, or the LA Raiders would be the biggest NFL team on the planet despite them leaving LA 20 years ago.

When Liverpool win their 20th this season, they'll be equal with United there, and be ahead in all the others bar the FA Cup. They'll likely win their 3rd league cup on the trot in a month or so, and possibly a 7th European cup. You're viewing things through rose-tinted glasses if you think United are bigger.

I support Hull. We've won nothing, I have no dog in the fight - Liverpool are the bigger club in my opinion. United live on past glories, that will pass, fans will age. It's already happening. Liverpool are top of the league, in another final, and topped the CL group with ease. United are 13th, in the also ran European competition and can't win a game at home for toffee. Bigger club, or a fallen giant?

Go have a wander round London, Paris, Sydney, New York etc. You'll see how big United are. If you spot a red shirt that's not Liverpool, Arsenal or AC Milan, I'd be surprised. Even Chelsea sell more shirts in certain territories which shows heritage means little to certain generations.

And not to sound obvious, but of course United get more fans through the turnstiles when it's the biggest gate in England - by that metric Celtic is the biggest club in Britain. A lot of PL clubs could sell a game 3 times over. Apart from City of course.
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What I was getting at is there are almost two ways to define a big club:

1. Who is currently the biggest club right now - who is the most successful now and in recent years and has the most pulling power in the transfer market? That, by it's very nature, is a short-term measure.
2. Who is historically a big club? Who has the most trophies in their history? Who has the biggest fanbase that sustains when the club falls on hard times? That is the exact opposite of "glory supporters" and why I used that measure.

I think both matter. For example, for a couple of years in the mid-1990s, Blackburn Rovers had the money, the success and the pulling power to sign the best players in the English game. But what prevented them from being considered a big club? The lack of historical success for one. And secondly, doing all of that in front of 25,000 fans every week. Same for Parma a couple of years later in Serie A. City are a bigger and better version but not dissimilar in their barriers to being viewed as a big club.

Chelsea are a good case study in sustaining 1 and turning it into 2. They were a fairly big club up to the 1990s, but nowhere near the top table. But having been operating as a big club with huge investment and plenty of success (5 league titles and 5 European trophies) over a sustained couple of decades and longer, they are considered differently. The sneering they used to get in the 2000s from Liverpool and United fans has dissipated over the years. That is now reserved for City but as they sustain their success then they will too move up the ranks as well.

No dog in the fight here either for what it's worth. Nor a strong view either way - Liverpool have more success, United more support - but the differences are fairly marginal.
 
Frostie said:
More glory supporters doesn't equal bigger club, or the LA Raiders would be the biggest NFL team on the planet despite them leaving LA 20 years ago.

When Liverpool win their 20th this season, they'll be equal with United there, and be ahead in all the others bar the FA Cup. They'll likely win their 3rd league cup on the trot in a month or so, and possibly a 7th European cup. You're viewing things through rose-tinted glasses if you think United are bigger.

I support Hull. We've won nothing, I have no dog in the fight - Liverpool are the bigger club in my opinion. United live on past glories, that will pass, fans will age. It's already happening. Liverpool are top of the league, in another final, and topped the CL group with ease. United are 13th, in the also ran European competition and can't win a game at home for toffee. Bigger club, or a fallen giant?

Go have a wander round London, Paris, Sydney, New York etc. You'll see how big United are. If you spot a red shirt that's not Liverpool, Arsenal or AC Milan, I'd be surprised. Even Chelsea sell more shirts in certain territories which shows heritage means little to certain generations.

And not to sound obvious, but of course United get more fans through the turnstiles when it's the biggest gate in England - by that metric Celtic is the biggest club in Britain. A lot of PL clubs could sell a game 3 times over. Apart from City of course.
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So much wrong with this post. Let's disect.

You do realise that Utd averaged the highest attendances in the country when we were in the 2nd division. This wouldn't happen at any other club even Liverpool. This would still be true today. We are the poorest we've been in the last 30 years but still planning to build a 100K stadium. We wouldn't be doing this if demand wasn't there. How many teams in the world can dream of filling a 100K stadium when not competing in the League & CL.

Liverpool didn't win a title for 30 years. By your metric they would have lost many fans as they were living on past glories. The opposite was true as they expanded their stadium & filled it most weeks. You say this is happening at Utd yet we fill the biggest stadium in the country every week & are planning a 100K stadium. We have even increased ticket prices while failing on the pitch & demand still outstrips supply.

You being from Hull i can't imagine you get to London, Paris, Sydney & New York on a regular basis if at all. I do know though that Utd hold the highest ever attendance for a match in the USA. I also know from watching other sports worldwide that you are more likely to see people with Utd shirts on in the crowd than any other British club.

I don't have any idea why you bring Celtic up. You say if going off gates Celtic would be the biggest club in Britain. Celtic Park only holds 60K so still well short of Utd.
 
ExecutionerWasp001 said:
So much wrong with this post. Let's disect.

You do realise that Utd averaged the highest attendances in the country when we were in the 2nd division. This wouldn't happen at any other club even Liverpool. This would still be true today. We are the poorest we've been in the last 30 years but still planning to build a 100K stadium. We wouldn't be doing this if demand wasn't there. How many teams in the world can dream of filling a 100K stadium when not competing in the League & CL.
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Schalke and HSV? :angel:
 
ExecutionerWasp001 said:
So much wrong with this post. Let's disect.

You do realise that Utd averaged the highest attendances in the country when we were in the 2nd division. This wouldn't happen at any other club even Liverpool. This would still be true today. We are the poorest we've been in the last 30 years but still planning to build a 100K stadium. We wouldn't be doing this if demand wasn't there. How many teams in the world can dream of filling a 100K stadium when not competing in the League & CL.

Liverpool didn't win a title for 30 years. By your metric they would have lost many fans as they were living on past glories. The opposite was true as they expanded their stadium & filled it most weeks. You say this is happening at Utd yet we fill the biggest stadium in the country every week & are planning a 100K stadium. We have even increased ticket prices while failing on the pitch & demand still outstrips supply.

You being from Hull i can't imagine you get to London, Paris, Sydney & New York on a regular basis if at all. I do know though that Utd hold the highest ever attendance for a match in the USA. I also know from watching other sports worldwide that you are more likely to see people with Utd shirts on in the crowd than any other British club.

I don't have any idea why you bring Celtic up. You say if going off gates Celtic would be the biggest club in Britain. Celtic Park only holds 60K so still well short of Utd.
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Isn't that highest average attendance for United simply because Old Trafford has the highest capacity for stadiums in the UK bar Wembley? I'm not sure about the specific situation at Liverpool but it's an absolute headache to get tickets these days and I think there's a sizeable waiting list for season tickets, so don't think we would have much trouble filling a bigger stadium at all either. Not sure how the situation is at other top clubs. But attendance only counts for so much, if you look at the (2.) Bundesliga, and how teams like Milan and Roma struggle to fill their stadium in Italy (and even games I've been to in Nou Camp that were only 3/4 full and half of them seemingly tourists).

That highest attendance in the UK is also partly because it was at the Michigan Stadium, would imagine it'd be the same if it was Milan or Liverpool vs Madrid. Liverpool usually sells out each stadium in their pre-season tour I believe and we had a sold-out 95k stadium in Australia a few years ago.

Agree with the main sentiment of your post though, United hasn't stopped being a big club because you've been bad for the last decade or so.
 
ExecutionerWasp001 said:
You being from Hull i can't imagine you get to London, Paris, Sydney & New York on a regular basis if at all.
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I think this topic in general is juvenile and usually consists of Europeans (who love their nobility and class structures regardless of recent accomplishments) engaging in "my peepee is bigger than your peepee" behavior, but it occasionally results in gems like this comment :lol:
 
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