Glad you found it funny.
Top 4 race 2016/17
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
- Start date
So what you're saying is that there's 'a way' of playing Liverpool, which is to go at them but when Liverpool overcome this tactic it stops working? Hmmm, that's fascinating.
If only the stupid footballers could remember to keep up this successful formula, otherwise it's flawless.
You're right, the second post is even funnier than the first one. In a nutshell, players across teams of the self-proclaimed best league in the world are just to stupid/stubborn/lazy/whatever to carry out the very simple match plans provided by their managers. Late in 2016 but qualifies for the top 10 posts of the year for me.
Sorry, somehow I missed your post. To be honest, I haven't watched enough Liverpool game minutes to feel confident to make firm statements; I've mostly watched highlights which showed barely more than goals, and IMO these brief summaries don't give enough insights. Without a doubt, all signature elements of Klopp's football (gegenpressing, pressing in the opponent's half at the expense of potentially being vulnerable at the back) are there and I'd cautiously say that you focus more (successfully) on playing down the wings, but then again, this is based on a way too tiny snapshot of your games. For sure, however, Klopp, despite you having a tad more possession than we had under him, hasn't changed his overall brand of football; most likely he had adapted it to some PL characteristics. I might catch up and watch a bit more and come back to you with a more robust impression.
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What I said is they need to keep going at it regardless of how well Liverpool are doing in the game. I just think most PL teams lack the composure to do this and I dont rate PL that high. The average Spanish team would have have a lot more success against Liverpool. Anyways, Ill just keep quiet from now since my opinion is widely being laughed at. Cheers.
What you're saying is, they'll be back?
What I meant is a lot of PL teams fold too easily and all it takes is a Liverpool goal for them to throw their tactical system out of the window and start parking the bus. A recent example of this would be Stoke, who were doing extremely well and stifled Liverpool for the first 20 mins but as soon as Liverpool got a lucky break(Lallana goal), Stoke just gave up whatever good work they've done so far and started defending deeply(Basically parked the bus). I think foreign teams, Spanish or German ones would have more success against Klopps Liverpool because they have better composure and/or tactical awareness.
Terminator reference, man.
This ignores the reality of how tough it is to play Liverpool. Several opponents this season have stated what a difficult team Liverpool are to play. Rather than imposing a predetermined game plan, teams are doing everything they can to just keep their head above water. You can't simply take Liverpool's qualities out of the equation and expect opponents to carry out a set of tactics regardless of how damn difficult the game is.
I see your logic, but your analysis appears to view Liverpool as if they are passive actors in the process yet the opposition are in a position to determine the outcome of the football match. Both teams are trying to win and Liverpool's superior quality and fitness has seen them regularly overcome challenges more effectively than their opponents have been able to do.
You imply that it's just against Liverpool teams give up after they conceded.
You also imply that it would be just necessary to continue combating a Liverpool in the lead, ignoring that these efforts can be (easily) exploited.
By no means I want to suggest that Klopp's football cannot be cracked up. But you suggest it's as easy as pie to be 'found out', which it isn't. Even if you know the ingredients, it can be very hard to apply them over the course of 90 minutes time, not because managers or players in the PL are too stupid/lazy/whatever: Just because it is!
Your theory that German or Spanish teams might cope better with current Liverpool is what it is: A theory that can neither be verified nor rejected because UEFA competitions' modus operandi is very different from the ones in leagues (and the sample size would be too small anyways).
Liverpool are averaging over 3 goals a game at home, 2 goals a game away and 2.5 goals a game overall, those are serious numbers.
Anybody trying to play down Liverpool's performances to date is IMHO burying their head in the sand from reality. For me they have been the best side so far and their football is so fluid and looks easy. Add in that their goals are spread around and that they barely seem to have missed Coutinho and they are a real concern.
When I watch Liverpool I always feel that they have a goal in them at any time, and I think Klopp has done an outstanding job there with what on the surface to me doesn't look like a top 4 group of players.
From a selfish point of view it's difficult to know what to want to happen next, we need to overhaul at least one of the teams above us to make top 4 and I simply have no idea which one is the likeliest. Given their current points haul Chelsea are now a shoe-in for top 4 but I don't know who from the other 3 we should be looking at to get past, which means watching the Liverpool City game without wanting any particular result. However I think if Liverpool win that game then they have a really good chance of winning this league, in fact I think if they beat City that they will go on and win this league because Chelsea whilst playing well IMHO seem to have a lot going for them in games right now and at some point I think that will change and they will find results harder to come by.
However if City were to win at Liverpool and Chelsea beat Stoke then there's a real chance that some of the Liverpool players will feel a bit sorry for themselves, or lose a bit of confidence as effectively the league title will be gone and maybe they could start to find results harder to come by themselves. I think we are now reaching the point where pressure will start to come into play, everybody says the league starts after Christmas and so does the pressure.
Anybody trying to play down Liverpool's performances to date is IMHO burying their head in the sand from reality. For me they have been the best side so far and their football is so fluid and looks easy. Add in that their goals are spread around and that they barely seem to have missed Coutinho and they are a real concern.
When I watch Liverpool I always feel that they have a goal in them at any time, and I think Klopp has done an outstanding job there with what on the surface to me doesn't look like a top 4 group of players.
From a selfish point of view it's difficult to know what to want to happen next, we need to overhaul at least one of the teams above us to make top 4 and I simply have no idea which one is the likeliest. Given their current points haul Chelsea are now a shoe-in for top 4 but I don't know who from the other 3 we should be looking at to get past, which means watching the Liverpool City game without wanting any particular result. However I think if Liverpool win that game then they have a really good chance of winning this league, in fact I think if they beat City that they will go on and win this league because Chelsea whilst playing well IMHO seem to have a lot going for them in games right now and at some point I think that will change and they will find results harder to come by.
However if City were to win at Liverpool and Chelsea beat Stoke then there's a real chance that some of the Liverpool players will feel a bit sorry for themselves, or lose a bit of confidence as effectively the league title will be gone and maybe they could start to find results harder to come by themselves. I think we are now reaching the point where pressure will start to come into play, everybody says the league starts after Christmas and so does the pressure.
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Should also be noted that Liverpool have played 10 away games and only 8 at home.
You guys gave up on top 4 because you were too far back. Had you guys been neck and neck with us and City, Klopp would have gone for both competitions.
This is a decent point. They played those away games at the beginning and also got a bit fortunate in getting to play Arsenal away first game while Arsenal were missing a load of their key players and getting to play Chelsea away before Conte found this winning system.
Swings and roundabouts. Our start to the season was being pointed and laughed at when announced but as luck would have it the fixtures couldn't have been better timed.
Swings and roundabouts. Our start to the season was being pointed and laughed at when announced but as luck would have it the fixtures couldn't have been better timed.
For sure. It's looking like a nice slice of luck in such a tight season. No Europe, Klopp fully bedded in, Pep and Jose starting a bit slower than anyone expected... you've got a real chance.
What is always conveniently forgotten on RC is Liverpool were also under-strength (vs Arsenal), with three of our players injured/unavailable, and we were forced to play a shite Back 5 (Mignolet, Moreno, Lovren, Klavan & Clyne). Maybe Chelsea moving to a back 3 would suit us better still - we'll have to wait and see on that one, however they weren't under-strength !
I think Guardiola has been the opposite of Mourinho.
Mourinho started poorly but United have been gradually improving as the season has progressed. Guardiola started brilliantly winning every game early on but has struggled more recently.
I actually expected City and United to battle it out for the title before the season started. It's surprising to see Chelsea and Liverpool as the top two when we're nearly at halfway through the season.
You are having a laugh here. If there is one team who doesn't let go of a lead at the top of the table, it is us. We have a group of winners with the manager who is more fanatic about winning than even Mourinho. But you will ofc never understand that being a Spurs fan.
Chelsea look like they can push really hard and raise the bar for the title to 90+ points. No European football is certainly a bonus towards that goal, they also have gained a great momentum with their players looking like they really enjoy themselves on the pitch. As things stand, it's hard to imagine them finishing below the first two league positions.
I think that tomorrow's game may be very important for Liverpool's season. I find it quite strange that people keep using the same old cliches to suggest that their season will eventually implode at some point. Klopp's done a magnificent job in terms of creating chances and this compensates, thus far, for the many individual errors at the back. I mean they do miss Coutinho's creativity and the ricochet that moved Firmino wide, which was caused by Coutinho's absence, hasn't helped Firmino either but they still create chances and score goals. I also believe that they look quite comfortable in possession most of the times (when they're not pressing). Of course they have periods during games when they look devoid of ideas but these moments are the minority. They usually move the ball around with purpose and the rhythm of their passing/movement is excellent. In other words, the lack of key personnel, the inability to gegen-press all the time and the errors at the back are problems they will not face in the future but they have already been facing and they are where they are.
In the game against Stoke they showed that they can turn around games when they're not playing well too which has been a huge problem for them in the past. This is the ultimate sign of a team that has very good chances of finishing high in the league. As Chelsea, Liverpool also have great momentum and the whole club, from the fans to the players, are starting to buy into the idea that they can mount a title challenge. I feel that a win against City will help them tremendously towards that direction and it will give them the confidence boost they need in order to separate themselves from the rest and be labeled the ones who will try to play catch up with Chelsea.
It's difficult to predict where City will finish. Will they fight for the title till the end or will they fall behind and compromise with a top four finish? At the beginning of the season it was pretty evident that Guardiola did not have enough quality in the midfield to make his usual tactics work out well. While i think that his approach was remarkably risky (with KdB and Silva in the midfield + three attacking players), this decision may come back to haunt him. Trying to build up attacks from the back with Stones and Fernando/Fernandinho and attempting to keep a high defensive line with the aforementioned players in the midfield can leave him exposed in many occasions. But when they're playing well and have good match rhythm their attacking/creative talent is sublime and can beat any team in England.
Arsenal are... Arsenal. If you ask United and Spurs fans which team they expect to overthrow from the current top four, Arsenal seem like the best guess. But it's also very hard to imagine them out of the top four since qualifying for the CL has always been a given under Wenger. They have the advantage of the long term manager and his established tactics. Furthermore, Wenger has added even more physicality (Xhaka), the experiment with Sanchez up front is paying off and Giroud has become something like a super sub for them when they want to add pressure and push forward.
I expect United and Spurs to finish at around 75 points. I believe Spurs look like they can match their previous season (+5 points isn't really a progress since they gave up last season after the title was decided). If they manage to do better, i'd still expect them to have a ceiling of 80 points. Very good team, physical, pacey, dynamic with lots of work rate. But still not enough quality in them to turn many of their draws into crucial wins.
United were forced to play catch up very early in the season. We've definitely shown signs of improvement, Mourinho's signings are finally starting to bed in and deliver the goods and we look like we have a settled starting xi. But we still don't look like a team will drop less points than its competitors in the second half of the season. We'll see what will happen.
I've always believed that, when more than four teams challenge for the CL spots, these four spots are more likely to go to the teams whose form has allowed them to be considered title contenders at least for 1/3 of the season. So, i'll go with the current top four and risk the prediction that both United and Spurs will miss out on top four.
I think that tomorrow's game may be very important for Liverpool's season. I find it quite strange that people keep using the same old cliches to suggest that their season will eventually implode at some point. Klopp's done a magnificent job in terms of creating chances and this compensates, thus far, for the many individual errors at the back. I mean they do miss Coutinho's creativity and the ricochet that moved Firmino wide, which was caused by Coutinho's absence, hasn't helped Firmino either but they still create chances and score goals. I also believe that they look quite comfortable in possession most of the times (when they're not pressing). Of course they have periods during games when they look devoid of ideas but these moments are the minority. They usually move the ball around with purpose and the rhythm of their passing/movement is excellent. In other words, the lack of key personnel, the inability to gegen-press all the time and the errors at the back are problems they will not face in the future but they have already been facing and they are where they are.
In the game against Stoke they showed that they can turn around games when they're not playing well too which has been a huge problem for them in the past. This is the ultimate sign of a team that has very good chances of finishing high in the league. As Chelsea, Liverpool also have great momentum and the whole club, from the fans to the players, are starting to buy into the idea that they can mount a title challenge. I feel that a win against City will help them tremendously towards that direction and it will give them the confidence boost they need in order to separate themselves from the rest and be labeled the ones who will try to play catch up with Chelsea.
It's difficult to predict where City will finish. Will they fight for the title till the end or will they fall behind and compromise with a top four finish? At the beginning of the season it was pretty evident that Guardiola did not have enough quality in the midfield to make his usual tactics work out well. While i think that his approach was remarkably risky (with KdB and Silva in the midfield + three attacking players), this decision may come back to haunt him. Trying to build up attacks from the back with Stones and Fernando/Fernandinho and attempting to keep a high defensive line with the aforementioned players in the midfield can leave him exposed in many occasions. But when they're playing well and have good match rhythm their attacking/creative talent is sublime and can beat any team in England.
Arsenal are... Arsenal. If you ask United and Spurs fans which team they expect to overthrow from the current top four, Arsenal seem like the best guess. But it's also very hard to imagine them out of the top four since qualifying for the CL has always been a given under Wenger. They have the advantage of the long term manager and his established tactics. Furthermore, Wenger has added even more physicality (Xhaka), the experiment with Sanchez up front is paying off and Giroud has become something like a super sub for them when they want to add pressure and push forward.
I expect United and Spurs to finish at around 75 points. I believe Spurs look like they can match their previous season (+5 points isn't really a progress since they gave up last season after the title was decided). If they manage to do better, i'd still expect them to have a ceiling of 80 points. Very good team, physical, pacey, dynamic with lots of work rate. But still not enough quality in them to turn many of their draws into crucial wins.
United were forced to play catch up very early in the season. We've definitely shown signs of improvement, Mourinho's signings are finally starting to bed in and deliver the goods and we look like we have a settled starting xi. But we still don't look like a team will drop less points than its competitors in the second half of the season. We'll see what will happen.
I've always believed that, when more than four teams challenge for the CL spots, these four spots are more likely to go to the teams whose form has allowed them to be considered title contenders at least for 1/3 of the season. So, i'll go with the current top four and risk the prediction that both United and Spurs will miss out on top four.
As usual, everything will be clearer when the Champions League is back, imo. Besides, let's see what the big teams are gonna do in january.
Can't see how anyone can deny it would be harder to go play at the bridge now than back then. Same with Arsenal now and first game of the season.
Yeah true, just meant both have done less by the half way stage than most thought. I expected a title charge from both Manchester clubs.
If we get into the top four (which I'm feeling slightly more confident about) then it won't be at the expense of Liverpool. They score far too many goals to even contemplate a collapse.
City and Arsenal are the sides we need to be chasing.
City and Arsenal are the sides we need to be chasing.
So you are saying the league is over.
If we beat Stoke tomorrow and that's a big IF after @duffer warning, that would be an incredible 49 points in the 1st half of the season. If Man City beat or draw against Liverpool then we're absolutely in the driving seat for the 2nd half.
38-40 points in the 2nd half should be enough to win the League which is extremely doable provided Hazard or Azpilicueta don't get injured.
38-40 points in the 2nd half should be enough to win the League which is extremely doable provided Hazard or Azpilicueta don't get injured.
Thanks for the reply - I haven't watched that many Dortmund games too to make a good comparison myself. I do hope he'll continue to do well. Today's a big day for him and us Liverpool fans!
Exactly. You can even have a slow second part of the season and still win the league by a good margin.
I'd say a loss of even a draw here means we've too much to do.
Final nail in the coffin.
Was always the case with any game for us. 4 wins barely got us close.
Still on for top four. Take that Mason
It's gonna down to the wire. Basically every team keep on winning.
United need to stop making it so difficult for themselves at home.
Am I the only one who thinks Arsenal are in serious danger of missing out this year?
Utd making a dent on goal difference I see.
Indeed I did.You've already done that haven't you? Summit had just given you four straight wins in a row so it's past tense. Hope that doesn't come back to bite him on the arse with arse hole wummers like Dumbstar around.
Like every year. Let's just see what happens.
Huge win.
Ba dum tish