Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

Everton are now just two points behind us :lol: It feels like any team that puts a run together can get this. Even Arsenal if they win tomorrow will say it's not impossible (highly unlikely but if they go on a run)
 
It's clear we aren't going to score enough goals to finish top 4. Just look at the lack of quality in our front 3/4.
 
If we don't beat Chelsea in our next league game I think it's gone. If we can beat them then it may spur us on.
 
Looking like a good win for Spurs but they're league fixtures aren't the easiest coming up; Villa (A) Chelsea (A) Wolves (H)

Could be a great race this year (or who can be the least crap)
 
Huge game at the Bridge between two poor teams and questionable managers.

Spurs will be licking their chops irrespective of the result.

Question Spurs supporters: what is your preferred outcome?
 
I'm starting to worry Spurs can come good, results like yesterday against City are massive and they could nab top 4. Berjwijn, Son and Moura looked good yesterday in Kane's absence.
Unless Pogba, McTominay and Rashford come back quicker than expected we will struggle.
 
Updated best available odds:

Leicester 1.08
Chelsea 1.53
Tottenham 4.33
United 9.00
Wolves 12.00
 
If anyone's wondering why Tottenham have better odds to make top 4, here's the PL table since Mourinho joined them:

1 Liverpool 39
2 City 26
3 Spurs 23
4 Leicester 23
5 Southampton 23
6 Sheff u 19
7 Everton 19
8 Wolves 19
9 United 19
10 Newcastle 16
11 Burnley 16
12 Chelsea 15
13 Palace 15
14 Watford 15
15 Villa 14
16 Arsenal 14
17 Brighton 11
18 Norwich 11
19 West Ham 11
20 Bournemouth 10

> If they can keep this up, they'll replace Chelsea (and we'll be 5th-8th, depending on Chelsea regaining form and Wolves and Sheffield being consistent)
> This also shows how tight the league is this year and how utterly crap anyone but Liverpool has been. More distance between 1st and 2nd than between 3rd and 18th, over 13 games!
> Also, let's all laugh at Arsenal and Moyes!
 
No idea how Spurs are shorter odds than us. City played them off the park and they missed out on a striker in January when they needed someone more than us.
 
Wow I didn't even realise that Spurs had gone passed us in the table. Shows just how past it's all seeming. We won't finish top 4. There was a bit of excitement over the Fernandes signing making people bouyant. But Chelsea and Spurs would have to be truly rubbish from herein to allow Ole's United to finish in the top 4.
 
Only still in the hunt because Chelsea have been so mediocre themselves. Spurs should certainly fancy their chances for 4th now.

4th could be officially gone for United after the next 5 PL games. (Chelsea (A) Watford (H) Everton (A) Man City (H) and Spurs (A) and if so all eggs will be thrown in the Europa League basket and will be nothing easy Brugge who are walking the Belgian league.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Wow I didn't even realise that Spurs had gone passed us in the table. Shows just how past it's all seeming. We won't finish top 4. There was a bit of excitement over the Fernandes signing making people bouyant. But Chelsea and Spurs would have to be truly rubbish from herein to allow Ole's United to finish in the top 4.
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Both have been truly rubbish. Chelseas record since we beat them in the League Cup has been abysmal. The issue is that we've hardly been great either, all clubs with the exception of Liverpool have been pretty shit since October.
 
MsNuno said:
Sheffield United 22.00 good odds given their form
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They were 60 right after their last game which I managed to bet on, I passed on the odds to family members, and by the time they placed bets it had dropped to 35, so considering it was 60 4 days ago, those odds are not great. It seems people have been piling on the bets for them.
 
Are we completely discounting Everton and Arsenal? I know 33 and 31 points is dismal and they're not winning many but they seam to be tougher to beat just lately. If they could hit some form and turn the draws into wins then they could be in it again (unlikely but...)
 
Redo91 said:
No idea how Spurs are shorter odds than us. City played them off the park and they missed out on a striker in January when they needed someone more than us.
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Because we are missing our world class midfielder and our main goal scorer? City will play most teams off the park, Spurs are hardly an anomaly here. This run of fixtures will be telling Chelsea (A) Watford (H) Everton (A) Man City (H) and Spurs (A). Chelsea's early good form has dropped off, I dont feel Arsenal are in the race. Jose has been quietly accruing points with Spurs.
 
Sheffield not dropping off any time soon.

If we miss out, rather them than Spurs or Chelsea, I guess.
 
Giggsyking said:
you can still change your mind, not too late!
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Our run of fixtures are very easy and are all winnable if we stop wasting chances upfront.
Cheslsea have a nightmare run in next 10-12 games. We should be top 4 by end of April.

if not then it is an absolute failure and there might be a change in management.
 
Moiraine said:
Our run of fixtures are very easy and are all winnable if we stop wasting chances upfront.
Cheslsea have a nightmare run in next 10-12 games. We should be top 4 by end of April.

if not then it is an absolute failure and there might be a change in management.
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But the problem is we dont win easy games. Burnely and Crytal Palace at home are easy games and we lost both!
 
I think it might be different this time as opposed to when we got points from Liverpool, City and Spurs, but I wouldn't discount the possibility of us winning some of these big games again but then losing/drawing virtually every other game against the smaller teams. Overall though, I think this season will fizzle out with a real whimper after a quick bout of renewed optimism, just like last year. That's not very optimistic but it's how I feel.
 
I think Top four would be easy if Rashford was fit, his injury has really hampered our chance, since i don't see us scoring enough goals with Martial FC as our reliable CF.

The signing of Both Bruno and Ig have somehow lifted the mood from where we were before but whether they'll have huge impact on the overall team performance, only time will tell.

But again unlike last season, this season we at least have two options to make it to CL, finish top four in the league or win Europa league.
 
If we had Rashford fit right now then with Pogba and McTominay coming back pretty soon I'd be pretty confident. Unfortunately Rashford is still probably like 2 months away. I really hope Fernandes and Ighalo can make an instant impact. I do think though that Pogba's return will improve us immensely, we'll go to another level with him back. McTominay as well is crucial to the rest of our season. Fingers crossed lads!
 
I want to believe we can make top four, but honestly, unless Rashford came back fully fit by the end of this month I'd wager we have next to no chance which is disappointing to have to say. The average number of points needed to get fourth place in the Premier League is close to 68-70 and roughly the average number of league victories required is probably 18-21 with a good amount of draws. For what it's worth, it'll probably be a bit lower this year as outside of the top 3 teams the rest of the league has been incredibly inconsistent. There's only 13 games remaining and we have 9 wins and 8 draws. I'd assume we need to manage something like 9 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses to from these final 13 games in order to have a shout at 4th place (total 64 points, which feels a bit weak but might be enough this season if Chelsea have a bad end). This has to include taking points off the teams around us whom we play almost all of them in the next 5-6 weeks. Chelsea (A) Feb 17th, Everton (A) March 1st, Spurs (A) March 15th, Sheff Utd (H) March 21st. You'd have to assume we need to be winning most of these fixtures, right? I can't imagine losing any of these games gives us much of a chance since we need to overtake all of them as it stands. Not to mention Man City come to Old Trafford within this period. Our season is make-or-break by the end of March. We could finish as low as 9th IMO if these results don't go our way, but if we can take victories over at least Chelsea and Spurs then we're in with a shout of 4th or 5th. My expectation so far is that even if we pull off some of these big wins, we would ultimately fall short to either Chelsea or Spurs but finish 5th (so below one of them, above the other in a very close run thing).

If Harry Kane was fit, I think Jose would go and comfortably steer Spurs to 4th place, especially if we take something off of Chelsea in the next game week and Spurs beat Villa. As the game week after, Spurs play Chelsea at the Bridge where I expect a Jose masterclass to get them at worst within 1 point of the blues. From that stage I can't really see Spurs throwing it and if Kane comes back early then they're almost a shoe-in for me. I think Frank and Chelsea will crumble under the pressure of big League games (3 of the next 4 are Man Utd, Spurs, Everton) and big Cup games (Bayern UCL, Liverpool FAC). If they come out of this on top winning most of these then fair play to them, but I expect them to dwindle and finish 5th or 6th and trophyless. We'll probably do the same, however.

I will touch on Sheffield United, as I wouldn't be surprised if they just quietly chug away at the league games and stay in the fight. Less distractions, similar to Everton who are on good form, but I think they are a bit more of a mixed bag still. They'll have to prove they're capable of beating the likes of Chelsea & United in the coming weeks to make a real claim for it - but I think their terrible start has left them with just a little bit too much to do. Wolves have to be spoken about also, but as long as they're in the Europa League I think they might take that more seriously than the Premier League this time. I can honestly see them being capable of winning the thing, so they should go for it.

tl;dr for United though, I just don't think we can suddenly become consistent enough to more than double our current win % in the league which is what the requirement will be from now until the end of the season. I'm not seeing anything that says we are capable of doing that.
 
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Pagh Wraith said:
Should finish Liverpool/City/Chelsea/Leicester. Chelsea and United are better teams than Leicester but their points advantage over United is too big to overcome. Rashford is a big loss as well.
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They really arent.
 
Isnt it sad, that we’ve all become Arsenal clones, believing that you get a trophy for, “top four”!
 
It's hard to say if the City news will really lead to any of the 7 teams challenging to improve their form but it must be a big shock that a top 4 race suddenly becomes a race to top 5 :lol: Wolves and Sheffield United in particular could very easily be playing in the CL next year :eek:
 
mark clatternburg said:
Isnt it sad, that we’ve all become Arsenal clones, believing that you get a trophy for, “top four”!
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Surely it would be the opposite of sad for you if Leicester became a clone of wengers arsenal?
 
I dont think we will get top 4 simply as there are too many teams ahead of us for them all to lose. In a way it might be better to finish where we are, as it would mean the glazers would have to replace Ole and stump up a lot of cash for new players in the summer, to avoid going even further behind next season. At best I can see a draw with Chelsea, but wouldnt be surprised to lose. Next 3 games after: Watford, Everton, and City. Definitely not 3 wins there.
 
Spurs move to within 1 point of 4th with the win today. A United win tomorrow would be ideal, but a draw would be pretty good for us also.
 
mark clatternburg said:
Isnt it sad, that we’ve all become Arsenal clones, believing that you get a trophy for, “top four”!
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This has become a bit of a caricature on here.

Nobody wants to get to top 4 because they think its a trophy. They want to get top 4 because it gives you the chance to play in the most prestigious club competition in the world and, most importantly for the long term growth of the club, the money that comes with it.

Which clubs in the recent past consistently win trophies without also finishing in the upper echelons of their league and getting the money from the CL to pay those trophy winning players?

Man Utd have such a powerful brand that they can tolerate quite a few years out of the CL. Though a few more years and the sponsorships may start to suffer. City are...City. Liverpool also have a huge global following but even they went through the doldrums a bit without CL money.

For the rest of us, its pretty beneficial for the club.
 
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