Imagine being a football fan, watch us regularly and think our attack is good enough for top 5.
Top 4 (let's hope top 5) race
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
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Insightful.
Those are shit odds. We haven't a hope of finishing in the top 4.
You are a very funny guy.
Ok. Race for winning Europa league then?
You should be looking below us, not up.
We'll make history by being the first Championship team in the Champions League
You can quote me back whenever you want. Pound for pound this squad is still not worse than Villa or Newcastle.
Football is not black and white. Your view of the sport is way too simplified.
It is much worse. We are not even close. Your view is very simplified.
Which team could you possibly be referring to? Surely not United?!?!Opta has us at a 1.8% chance at top 4 and a 4.6% chance at top 5, see source (prior to the Newcastle game). Your view that others are being "pessimistic" has no basis in reality. We're much, much more likely to finish in the bottom half than the top 5.
I think I’d be fascinated to see your combined XI.
Edit: Feel free to make it 4-3-3 as MUFC don’t really have players suited to 3-4-3, yet.
Yeah, i agree. I just couldn't believe after Amorim's first 3 games that things will go to shit like this.
Opta has us at a 1.8% chance at top 4 and a 4.6% chance at top 5, see source (prior to the Newcastle game). Your view that others are being "pessimistic" has no basis in reality. We're much, much more likely to finish in the bottom half than the top 5.
But i still believe that we are winning EL.
What exactly does tonight's game prove for you?
De Ligt isn't a wide defender. Neither is Martínez.
Eriksen and Casemiro are both washed.
We can't progress the ball to Hojlund or Zirkzee.
Dalot is an all-rounder full-back suited to a back 4. Mazraoui similar, but he can do the wide defender role in a back 3 to an acceptable standard.
It's all about platforming issues, pressing issues, and build-up issues. Tonight's game hasn't proven anything about any player in isolation not being as good as the Newcastle/Villa players in the same positions.
From our starting 11 tonight, which players are suitable to the role Amorim wants in the position he's put them in? GK Onana, CCB Maguire, one of the #10s in Amad, #9 Hojlund. 4 players out of 11 fit their specific roles for in their positions. That's the biggest issue, not the players themselves.
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Newcastle's top 5 non-defenders: Isak, Gordon, Guimeraes, Joelinton, Tonali.
Villa's top 5 non-defenders: Watkins, Duran, Rogers, Bailey, Kamara.
Who do we have in midfield and attack to compare to those two groups? Bruno, but then I'm coming up pretty blank. Ugarte, Amad.... maybe Rashford? Our team is pretty bleak.
The players were also crap before Amorim started his experiment.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cr46erzp1e0o
Next season there will be up to 7 champion leagues places up for grab. We are back on?
Next season there will be up to 7 champion leagues places up for grab. We are back on?
We are so not back on.
That's assuming the following scenario:
Top 5: Liverpool, Arsenal, Forest, Chelsea, Newcastle
CL Winner: Man City
Europa Winner: Man Utd
Won't happen. It also has now bearing on the league... you need to finish top 5 to qualify. We won't.
We have pretty good chance to win the EL..
No1 favorite by the bookies. And bookies know that shit
We're BACK
Mathematically, that might be true, merely because we've got a good chance at getting one of the guaranteed spots in the final sixteen.
Logically, though, we don't have a good chance at all; we're struggling to fluke wins against even the weakest teams in the EPL.
Really, the Europa is Lazio's to lose.
Agree. No chance of winning the UEL. We've been very lucky to scrape wins over teams I've never heard of. Sadly it's about our level at the moment...
Are Lazio really that good?
I think the Europa League is really weak this year. I keep trying to work out what the toughest possible games are and it's Spurs, Lazio, Frankfurt, Bilbao... maybe Roma if they even qualify? It's not like previous years where we had to get past Barcelona and Juventus or last year when there was Atalanta and Leverkusen.
If we can get a couple of easy-ish draws for the RO16 and QF then who knows. We're a decent cup side remember.
From what I gather we will know our potential path to the final once the knockout draw is done as it will be a tennis style draw, rather than round by round in previous editions.
So finishing higher in the league gives a higher seeding and an easier path to the final?
Why Lazio? They are 4th in Serie A, nothing special. Am I missing something?
EL is winnable and it's definitely easier than for us to qualify via Top 5 in PL.
Remember, this lazy and inconsistent bunch can put in great performances once in a while when it matters. Case in point against City, Liverpool and Arsenal.
Only team I'd like to miss is Bilbao - terrible memories of facing them
Am I correct in saying that 6th place could get Champions League if Liverpool/Arsenal/City win the competition this season and finish in the top 5 (assuming the Premier League gets the 5th place initially?)
That's right! It's certainly the case for the CL and I'm assuming it's the case for the EL too.
No. It's the top 5, plus the winners. (The position they finish in the PL is irrelevant).
Just checked out Lazio's squad and it's a bunch of loans, fairly decent Italian players (but none regular starters for the NT), and Grandpa Pedro.
And although they're 4th in Serie A they're quite far off the pace of the top 3 (7 pts behind Atalanta in 3rd and 14 pts off the top) with a much inferior GD and will be 5th if Fiorentina below them lose their game in hand.
So yeah, I think their impressive record in the Europa this season more speaks volumes to the low quality of the competition rather than them being a great side.
Would be slightly more worried about Athletic Bilbao, also 4th in their league but much closer to the sides above them than below than Lazio are, and also had just as good a record as Lazio in the Europa until a bit of a freak heavy defeat to Ole's first Besiktas game last week.
I fully expect us to get knocked out at some point before the final though regardless of who we draw along the way, as what are the chances of us stringing 6 decent performances together in a row to get there...
And although they're 4th in Serie A they're quite far off the pace of the top 3 (7 pts behind Atalanta in 3rd and 14 pts off the top) with a much inferior GD and will be 5th if Fiorentina below them lose their game in hand.
So yeah, I think their impressive record in the Europa this season more speaks volumes to the low quality of the competition rather than them being a great side.
Would be slightly more worried about Athletic Bilbao, also 4th in their league but much closer to the sides above them than below than Lazio are, and also had just as good a record as Lazio in the Europa until a bit of a freak heavy defeat to Ole's first Besiktas game last week.
I fully expect us to get knocked out at some point before the final though regardless of who we draw along the way, as what are the chances of us stringing 6 decent performances together in a row to get there...
We may not be consistent in the league but we are a very good cup team. Lazio, Spurs and Bilbao are our main competitor. We have a good chance to win it. If I'm not wrong we are also the favourite based on bookies odds. I hope Amorim can do this!
As mentioned we need to focus mainly on the Europa League. If we can avoid the extra fixtures by finishing top 8 then I'd say we have a reasonable chance in that competition, if Amorim can get his ideas across more over the next few weeks. That said, pressing on in the Premier League is still a must. We need confidence, consistency in both performance and team selection. That will come from climbing the table. I do think we are in such a bad position that finishing above 9th is probably going to be close to a miracle but we'll see. I think we can hunt down/compete with Fulham, Brentford and Brighton, but Villa and Bournemouth seem a bit more of a challenge. We'll definitely need to win 8+ of our remaining 15 games, but we've only won 8 of our first 23...
As for the actual top 4 or 5, I think Man City will sort themselves out enough to eventually finish third somewhat comfortably. They'll probably finish the season closer to Liverpool than they are now, but have too much to do. I'd fancy Newcastle or Chelsea to be the ones to get 4th, but I am actually somewhat optimistic that Villa or Bournemouth could push them all the way, along with Forest. Lots of football to play, but I think the eight teams currently occupying the top 8 places are going to finish there, just not in that order.
but we'll see. I think we can hunt down/compete with Fulham, Brentford and Brighton, but Villa and Bournemouth seem a bit more of a challenge. We'll definitely need to win 8+ of our remaining 15 games, but we've only won 8 of our first 23... As for the actual top 4 or 5, I think Man City will sort themselves out enough to eventually finish third somewhat comfortably. They'll probably finish the season closer to Liverpool than they are now, but have too much to do. I'd fancy Newcastle or Chelsea to be the ones to get 4th, but I am actually somewhat optimistic that Villa or Bournemouth could push them all the way, along with Forest. Lots of football to play, but I think the eight teams currently occupying the top 8 places are going to finish there, just not in that order.
Before Amorim I had more confidence when it comes to our chances of winning Europa as he's changed everything and players are struggling with it. Not saying I'm not for it but think our chances in Europa have decreased because of it. It's a shame if we don't win it as we definitely could've had another one by now - either in 2020 or 2021. Even 2023 could've been different if it wasn't for injuries and dropping 2-0 lead at home vs Sevilla late in that game.
On Top 4/5 race - Villa don't look convincing to me to get there and would back Newcastle, Chelsea, Bournemouth and Forest to fight over those 2 places. Liverpool, Arsenal and City to be top 3. Still feel Forest aer going to have a drop to some extent and may finish as low as 6th/7th, which would still be great season for them probably. Wouldd rather see Bournemouth and Chelsea finishing in 4th and 5th than Newcastle.
Or other teams from Spain in general - most of the times we got knocked out of competitions over the last 25 years, it was against Spanish sides.
On Top 4/5 race - Villa don't look convincing to me to get there and would back Newcastle, Chelsea, Bournemouth and Forest to fight over those 2 places. Liverpool, Arsenal and City to be top 3. Still feel Forest aer going to have a drop to some extent and may finish as low as 6th/7th, which would still be great season for them probably. Wouldd rather see Bournemouth and Chelsea finishing in 4th and 5th than Newcastle.
Going all out for the Europa must be the target now. If Amorim can achieve that, financially we’ll be in a significantly better position due to comp earnings and being in the CL next year.
Not as good as Arsenal who United knocked out of the FA Cup with 10 men for an hour.
Last season won the FA cup by beating Liverpool and Man City. Two sides a lot better than what's left in the Europa league this season.
Yeah one of the analysts on social media basically said if he can go deep (SF+) in the Europa PSR won't be a big issue come summer combined with the assumed exits of Rashford, Case, Eriksen etc. Europa league prize money has gotten decent, obviously if we win it we gain access to the CL revenue and will be laughing but will be tough even though it is not the strongest field.
Why would it be Lazio's to lose? They aren't even that good, 4th in the league some distance behind Napoli, Inter and Atalanta, haven't really had much success in recent years. Their coach has next to zero European experience.
Really any middling Spanish team.