Top 3 Premier League players of all-time

harms said:
Funnily enough, you can easily make up a top-3 without a United player.

Henry and, ugh, Salah have more or less secured two of those spots, especially if he wins the title this year (seems almost impossible not to). The third one can go to Ronaldo (best peak level), Giggs (best longevity), Cantona (biggest immediate impact) or even someone like Shearer, Keane or De Bruyne. Personally, I'd probably go with Rooney — he seems like the perfect mix between longevity, influence & peak performance.
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Where do you have Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard?
 
Teritus said:
Where do you have Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard?
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Just below but neither one is truly in the contention for me. I'd have Scholes in some of my PL all-time XIs though, depending on the formation.

Lampard is inferior to De Bruyne in more or less the same role (not by a lot but clearly so); Gerrard's best seasons were also in a more attacking role where he is inferior to De Bruyne. And while I don't think titles are everything, there's no way I'm picking a player with no league titles as the greatest/top player in league's history unless they're performing like peak Messi or Maradona (but if they did, they would've won it).
 
SilentWitness said:
What does that mean? If you're winning the Ballon D'or it's an indication that the season you've had was pretty fecking good.

I think you have to put the 07/08 and 02/03 seasons by Ronaldo and Henry as arguably the two best individual seasons by a player.

Salah looks on track to be in that club this season though and I think he probably will win the Ballon D'or too.
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It is, but it is not indication the player was better than another player in a different season.

Salah has statistically already beaten Ronaldo's best twice, this would be the 3rd time.
 
Hammondo said:
It is, but it is not indication the player was better than another player in a different season.

Salah has statistically already beaten Ronaldo's best twice, this would be the 3rd time.
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Then you can say the same thing regarding the goal contribution metric you're using as an indication.
 
SilentWitness said:
Then you can say the same thing regarding the goal contribution metric you're using as an indication.
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True, but at least it is for the most part a clearer comparison. It is unclear why you would think he had a better season, I think outside of man united fans Salah would win.
 
Hammondo said:
True, but at least it is for the most part a clearer comparison. It is unclear why you would think he had a better season, I think outside of man united fans Salah would win.
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I wouldn't say so. If you use a mix of the eye test, stats and individual/team awards then it becomes quite clear. If you reduce everything down to one award or just stats then perhaps not.
 
SilentWitness said:
I wouldn't say so. If you use a mix of the eye test, stats and individual/team awards then it becomes quite clear. If you reduce everything down to one award or just stats then perhaps not.
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Yes but that is often not how it works, a many on here argue that many of them have been unfair and more political.
 
3 best players I've seen in the PL

1) Cristiano
2) Suarez
3) going with Henry here, but it's close with Salah, Rooney and Bale and Van Persie all roughly at this level too. Henry had more outstanding seasons than Bale, Van Persie and Rooney and was more self-sufficient than Salah
 
giorno said:
3 best players I've seen in the PL

1) Cristiano
2) Suarez
3) going with Henry here, but it's close with Salah, Rooney and Bale and Van Persie all roughly at this level too. Henry had more outstanding seasons than Bale, Van Persie and Rooney and was more self-sufficient than Salah
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Van Persie is a very rogue shout.
 
Rooney is a player I've come to appreciate more and more post retirement. He was someone whose talent I took completely for granted when he was playing.
 
Surprised to see Salah in so many lists. There's no doubt he's a great player, but he's going up against some serious competition, and while he has machine-like efficiency I can't really say he's a better footballer than most of the other players mentioned. I would probably even put Suarez above him.

And those placing him above Ronaldo are nuts – I have long fallen out of love with Cristiano, but he was United's best player (in probably our best ever squad) during a 3 year spell where we won 3 x PL, 1 x CL and got to another CL final, along with picking up the Ballon d'Or. I don't put too much emphasis on the Ballon d'Or in general as it can be a bit of a popularity contest, but sometimes a player truly deserves it above the rest and I think that was true for him in 2008.
 
giorno said:
3 best players I've seen in the PL

1) Cristiano
2) Suarez
3) going with Henry here, but it's close with Salah, Rooney and Bale and Van Persie all roughly at this level too. Henry had more outstanding seasons than Bale, Van Persie and Rooney and was more self-sufficient than Salah
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What do you mean by self sufficient? Salah creates a lot of his chances and he creates more for others than Van Persie specifically did.

Rooney makes these lists on overall contribution but he’s never had an all time PL season, Salah now has 2 his first year and this one. Henry has one, Ronaldo has one and Suarez has one.

Cristiano
Suarez
Henry/Salah

Then a gap between those lot and RVP Rooney Bale Kane
 
Righteous Steps said:
What do you mean by self sufficient? Salah creates a lot of his chances and he creates more for others than Van Persie specifically did.
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Henry could consistently and reliably drive his team forward and generate attacks. Salah needs his teammates to get him the ball in dangerous areas

yes, Van Persie was also not self sufficient, but he was also at this kind of level for only a couple seasons and I don't need to look further than that
Righteous Steps said:
Rooney makes these lists on overall contribution but he’s never had an all time PL season, Salah now has 2 his first year and this one. Henry has one, Ronaldo has one and Suarez has one.
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09/10 and 11/12, but on the whole yeah, it's why I'm picking Henry over him
 
The conversation starts with Giggs and any other suggestion otherwise is ludicrous. Obviously ignoring his personal life which in my opinion shouldn't affect thus vote.

After that, id have Salah in the conversation. Henry, Rio and Rooney too. Shearer only won one title, which isn't enough for me.

On the balance on fairness, as defenders tend not to grab the eye, ill assign one place to Rio. So my top 3 will be:

Giggs
Rio
Rooney
 
Cristiano Ronaldo
Thierry Henry
Wayne Rooney

Those are undoubtedly the best 3 players we have seen in the Premier League.
 
WeePat said:
Rooney is a player I've come to appreciate more and more post retirement. He was someone whose talent I took completely for granted when he was playing.
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There's been a lot of that with several players for me in the past ten years!

I really wish Rooney had continued to peak past 27/28. If he did, he'd be remembered as the top of this list. Whilst he added more playmaking to his game, I feel this was somewhat to attempt to offset his decline as a striker. In his early years he looked destined for the very top and I think a shame we don't live in the timeline where he made it. Thoroughly enjoyed his time playing for us under SAF though.
 
youngrell said:
Surprised to see Salah in so many lists. There's no doubt he's a great player, but he's going up against some serious competition, and while he has machine-like efficiency I can't really say he's a better footballer than most of the other players mentioned. I would probably even put Suarez above him.

And those placing him above Ronaldo are nuts – I have long fallen out of love with Cristiano, but he was United's best player (in probably our best ever squad) during a 3 year spell where we won 3 x PL, 1 x CL and got to another CL final, along with picking up the Ballon d'Or. I don't put too much emphasis on the Ballon d'Or in general as it can be a bit of a popularity contest, but sometimes a player truly deserves it above the rest and I think that was true for him in 2008.
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It isn't nuts if you consider factors such as longevity which will always go against Ronaldo despite those 3 excellent seasons.

Henry, Rooney and Salah all spent longer than him in the PL and all played their best football/reached their individual heights in that league.
 
SilentWitness said:
It isn't nuts if you consider factors such as longevity which will always go against Ronaldo despite those 3 excellent seasons.

Henry, Rooney and Salah all spent longer than him in the PL and all played their best football/reached their individual heights in that league.
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But he was here (and performing very well as a young player) for another 3 years on top of those 3 outstanding seasons, I was just outlining that he was the best player in what is considered United's best squad during those 3 years, and his absolute best here was better than the other 3 players – he was considered the best player in the world at that time so his peak was higher and his longevity isn't too far behind the rest either (although at a lower level due to age).
 
SilentWitness said:
Van Persie is a very rogue shout.
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Very.

They'll be arguments for some players based on records & achievements (Shearer), some based on their absolute peaks (Ronaldo), some on a combination of both of those things (Rooney, Henry, Salah) and some based on longevity and trophies (Giggs, Scholes).

RvP has literally none of these boxes ticked to any great degree.
 
DannyCAFC said:
Very.

They'll be arguments for some players based on records & achievements (Shearer), some based on their absolute peaks (Ronaldo), some on a combination of both of those things (Rooney, Henry, Salah) and some based on longevity and trophies (Giggs, Scholes).

RvP has literally none of these boxes ticked to any great degree.
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Obviously RVP had the previous player of the year season with Arsenal, but if we're talking one-off United striker seasons then Dwight Yorke in 1999 was as good or better for United than Van Persie was imo. Van Nistelrooy too from 2001-03.
 
Roy Keane without a doubt. First player on the team sheet every day of the week. Henry, and then: Shearer, Giggs, Scholes; don’t know which!
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Don’t think that’s true, Giggs was more important for more titles than Scholes. Early 90s he was key, in the late 90s Fergie would often drop Scholes for Butt and was considered of similar standing, well behind Keane in the pecking order. Whereas Giggs was one of the main attackers. Then for the late career seasons I don’t think Scholes was key, he came off the bench plenty, even more than Giggs. So it’s really 99-01, 02/03 and 06-08 really that Scholes was key whereas Giggs it’s take your pick from 1992 to the late 2000s.
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It is honestly bizarre to me how perception of that pair has pivoted in the years after their retirements. It was almost universally accepted around 2013 that Giggs had been the better player and had the better career.

Giggs was an incredible talent, leads the all time assist chart in both the PL and CL, and had more assists alone (Mrs Smoker had him at 310 for his Utd career, see her brilliant work here https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-4#post-16444916) than Scholes had Goals and Assists combined but people talk as if he was a James Milner-esque workhorse and had underwhelming stats, while also ignoring how different the role of a winger was to today's wide forwards.
 
Bobski said:
It is honestly bizarre to me how perception of that pair has pivoted in the years after their retirements. It was almost universally accepted around 2013 that Giggs had been the better player and had the better career.

Giggs was an incredible talent, leads the all time assist chart in both the PL and CL, and had more assists alone (Mrs Smoker had him at 310 for his Utd career, see her brilliant work here https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-4#post-16444916) than Scholes had Goals and Assists combined but people talk as if he was a James Milner-esque workhorse and had underwhelming stats, while also ignoring how different the role of a winger was to today's wide forwards.
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His off the field problems hurt his standing I'd imagine.
 
Red the Bear said:
His off the field problems hurt his standing I'd imagine.
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Massively but even that doesn't fully explain it, after all there are plenty of adulterous players with criminal convictions in stuff like the PL hall of fame, but Giggs remains excluded.
 
Bobski said:
It is honestly bizarre to me how perception of that pair has pivoted in the years after their retirements. It was almost universally accepted around 2013 that Giggs had been the better player and had the better career.

Giggs was an incredible talent, leads the all time assist chart in both the PL and CL, and had more assists alone (Mrs Smoker had him at 310 for his Utd career, see her brilliant work here https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-4#post-16444916) than Scholes had Goals and Assists combined but people talk as if he was a James Milner-esque workhorse and had underwhelming stats, while also ignoring how different the role of a winger was to today's wide forwards.
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Yep, Giggs was in 6 teams of the year too vs 2 for Scholes, but apparently Scholes was more important for more league titles. I think what also worked against Giggs was that he played almost too long as the older Giggs version that is stuck in people's minds. He was like two completely different players between 1991-99 and 2006-2013. Scholes actually changed quite a bit too, but the wily old deep-lying playmaker was more in vogue at the time. The later Giggs was a frustrating player, used to get on people's nerves. At his best, he was a devastating, almost box to box attacking midfielder, especially in Europe, but he also had plenty of bad games where he would just lose the ball constantly. But still this was a winger in his mid to late 30s playing in two-man midfields, it was remarkable he was still playing at that high a level. Even old Giggs would easily be United's best player today. There was a video that went around of Giggs in his last European game in 2013 against Madrid and feck he was brilliant and I think that gained him a little bit more respect, but imagine that except with Mbappé-like pace in the early 90s.

But yeah Giggs was wanted by Juventus and top Italian teams I remember and was feared in Europe in the 90s. His scoring stats were in line with standard winger stats of the time, Figo won the Ballon d'Or scoring single digit goals. It was just different if you're playing wide in a 4-4-2, you're further back and more creative, the two strikers score the goals. His assist stats were great as you said.
 
Salah, Henry and there's a few candidates for no3. It's probably Giggs given his longevity and trophy hall but he's a cnut, so Rooney.
 
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