Toni Kroos | Madridista

[RooneyLegend]

Think he'll flop at madrid. Can't imagine a player like him being a hit there plus rumor is they're bringing in Rodriquez too. All in all what does this mean for isco? Hopefully he'll realise that moving to madrid wasn't the best of ideas and start looking for a new home.

Still don't understand all the fuss about him. He's a great passer but not in the tier of greats(due to his lack of vision). He's a defensive liability. Isn't the best when put under pressure and is about as much a goal threat as diego godin.

I'm very happy we have herera instead of him.

 

[gofelx]

Think he'll flop at madrid. Can't imagine a player like him being a hit there plus rumor is they're bringing in Rodriquez too. All in all what does this mean for isco? Hopefully he'll realise that moving to madrid wasn't the best of ideas and start looking for a new home.

Still don't understand all the fuss about him. He's a great passer but not in the tier of greats(due to his lack of vision). He's a defensive liability. Isn't the best when put under pressure and is about as much a goal threat as diego godin.

I'm very happy we have herera instead of him.

Due to lack of vision? What does that mean and where did you get that idea from?
And it was discussed endless times, Kroos is not the best in defense but he's not a liability at all. Stats back it up as well.
You do know that he used to be an attacking midfielder and got more than 10 goals a season at Leverkusen, right? Obviously he isn't going to score tons of goals with the position he's occupying now, still he's much more of a goal threat then let's say Modric.

 

[Sarni]

Think he'll flop at madrid. Can't imagine a player like him being a hit there plus rumor is they're bringing in Rodriquez too. All in all what does this mean for isco? Hopefully he'll realise that moving to madrid wasn't the best of ideas and start looking for a new home.

Still don't understand all the fuss about him. He's a great passer but not in the tier of greats(due to his lack of vision). He's a defensive liability. Isn't the best when put under pressure and is about as much a goal threat as diego godin.

I'm very happy we have herera instead of him.

It means Manchester City for Isco I think. He should have gone there last year.

 

[Zii]

If we offered 40 million he would be here. 20 million is a joke fee to not fight for

 

[RooneyLegend]

Due to lack of vision? What does that mean and where did you get that idea from?
And it was discussed endless times, Kroos is not the best in defense but he's not a liability at all. Stats back it up as well.
You do know that he used to be an attacking midfielder and got more than 10 goals a season at Leverkusen, right? Obviously he isn't going to score tons of goals with the position he's occupying now, still he's much more of a goal threat then let's say Modric.

Seriously, how many times do you see him splitting defences with eye catching passes? He's got a great passing range and it pretty much ends there.

He's a liability in defence. You can't under any conditions compare what he does in defence to what the likes of modric do. No stats can tell me otherwise. I just saw bastian put in a lone defensive midfield performance vs argentina in the final. He's quite slow, and not much of a tackler.

Well, days of him notching up those numbers are long gone. Plus it was just one season.

 

[RedorDead21]

Seriously, how many times do you see him splitting defences with eye catching passes? He's got a great passing range and it pretty much ends there.

He's a liability in defence. You can't under any conditions compare what he does in defence to what the likes of modric do. No stats can tell me otherwise. I just saw bastian put in a lone defensive midfield performance vs argentina in the final. He's quite slow, and not much of a tackler.

Well, days of him notching up those numbers are long gone. Plus it was just one season.

I'd like to see Scholes defense splitting pass average say vs Fabregas. Being a sat nav passer like Kroos is still one of the rarest abilities of top level footballers!

 

[PedroMendez]

Seriously, how many times do you see him splitting defences with eye catching passes? He's got a great passing range and it pretty much ends there.

He's a liability in defence. You can't under any conditions compare what he does in defence to what the likes of modric do. No stats can tell me otherwise. I just saw bastian put in a lone defensive midfield performance vs argentina in the final. He's quite slow, and not much of a tackler.

Well, days of him notching up those numbers are long gone. Plus it was just one season.

Is Oscar a defensive liability? Kroos does a similar job. In the WC final it was actually Klose, Kroos (and Müller) who pressed the Argentinian midfield/CBs. He is not a DM, but does his fair share of work in a 3men midfield. He suffers in a two men midfield (e.g. against Real where we played with Müller as second striker or in the national team when Özil plays as #10).
Its true that he is pretty slow, lacks mobility and his tackles could be better, but he usually knows, when he has to stop his opponent (he makes a lot of small fouls). If Kroos is a liability, what do you think about players like Mata, Özil, Silva? Must be a horror for you.
The same people, who think that he is bad, are drooling about Pirlo, which doesnt make any sense.

And Of course these numbers are gone. He plays way deeper in a system thats risk-averse. He does exactly what the coaches wanted him to do.

 

[BigDunc9]

20 million for Kroos and 26 million for Cesc is making the Herrera transfer look a bit steep in comparison.

 

[LinkesAuge]

@Scargrow

Yes. I am a Bayern fan - since end of the 70s or as long as I remember. The time I actively remind me starting to watch football and Bayern was with the end of the Gerd Müller area and the beginning of Breitnigge.

That is just how I and a lot Bayern fans that I know think of Toni Kroos. We follow his development closely since 7 years since he came to Bayern.

Some very direct ones would tell you that we won the CL in the treble year without him and he was not missed one moment.

And van Gaal - he looks for more in his players than just the abilities. And just face it - he did not want him out of his own reasons even if he has very good passing abilities. But it might be the same reasons why Bayern does not offer him the big contract he wants.

you and the Bayern fans you are talking about are the same ones who wanted Schweinsteiger out of the club a few years ago and a lot of the arguments used against Kroos were also used against Schweinsteiger back then (doesn't work enough, will never be good enough defensivly to play as CM, wasn't missed in that or this game and so on).
Kroos talent is really obvious to anyone who has an eye for the really important parts of the game and not just the eye-catching stuff, not to mention that I don't get how you can still believe Kroos wouldn't work for the team. He made huge steps in the last 2-3 years in that department and will make more in the next years.
Regarding the whole van Gaal thing... I don't know why people make it more complicate than it is, the real reason why Kroos wouldn't come to ManUtd is that there is really no incentive if you have offers from clubs like Real Madrid (no offense to ManUtd but no CL and probably less money don't make a player move from Bayern) but to think Kroos is not wanted by a coach who brought someone like Pranjic to Bayern is making me laugh.

 

[gofelx]

Seriously, how many times do you see him splitting defences with eye catching passes? He's got a great passing range and it pretty much ends there.

He's a liability in defence. You can't under any conditions compare what he does in defence to what the likes of modric do. No stats can tell me otherwise. I just saw bastian put in a lone defensive midfield performance vs argentina in the final. He's quite slow, and not much of a tackler.

Well, days of him notching up those numbers are long gone. Plus it was just one season.

Hmm, I'm a Hamburg fan and he was the most influential player in all the games he's played against us last season (3). In the DFB-Pokal alone, he played a 40 yard pass over the top to Robben who just had to put the ball in the back of the net. He's done that countless times last year, also in the CL.

at 0:50

In this WC he had very similar stats defensive wise compared to Modric and Vidal. He didn't have the best game in the final (where he only won 30% of his tackles), but on average he won more than 50% (more than Modric) and worked very well in a 3 man midfield (in the final Germany had to switch to a 2 man midfield).

And to your last sentence, of course he's not gonna get similar numbers, because he plays extremely deep for Bayern. I mean how many goals does Carrick score every season... When Kroos was used as an attacking midfielder in 12/13 he was still a goal threat.

 

[RuudTom83]

20 million for Kroos and 26 million for Cesc is making the Herrera transfer look a bit steep in comparison.

That is the difference between buying players clubs want to keep! and buying players club don't want to keep!

Transfer fees should be seen as something which is not directly connected to the players footballing ability, and more so the value said player has in his current team.

Fabregas wasn't wanted by Barca ~ hence 26 million to get rid quickly was understandable.
Kroos was not showing signs he was gonna extend his contract so again 20 million seems like good business.

Herrera on the other hand had plenty of years left and Athletic don't have a huge need to sell so they can dig there heels in.

 

[BigDunc9]

That is the difference between buying players clubs want to keep! and buying players club don't want to keep!

Transfer fees should be seen as something which is not directly connected to the players footballing ability, and more so the value said player has in his current team.

Fabregas wasn't wanted by Barca ~ hence 26 million to get rid quickly was understandable.
Kroos was not showing signs he was gonna extend his contract so again 20 million seems like good business.

Herrera on the other hand had plenty of years left and Athletic don't have a huge need to sell so they can dig there heels in.

At the same time where Kroos and Fabregas not available to United buy though ? Considering they are a level above Herrera and both have went for cheaper then why didn't United bid ?

 

[Suus]

I dont think Herrera is a level below Cesc. He might be under Kroos, but that's only because Germany and Bayern's styles have really suited Kroos, whereas Bilbao have been quite limited by their restrictions.

I'm saddened another massive player like Kroos chooses Real Madrid over any other destination. I cant fathom the attraction, apart from playing with Ronaldo. Lets hope this stiffles their transferbusiness this summer.

 

[BigDunc9]

I dont think Herrera is a level below Cesc. He might be under Kroos, but that's only because Germany and Bayern's styles have really suited Kroos, whereas Bilbao have been quite limited by their restrictions.

I'm saddened another massive player like Kroos chooses Real Madrid over any other destination. I cant fathom the attraction, apart from playing with Ronaldo. Lets hope this stiffles their transferbusiness this summer.

Herrera might be as talented but considering what the other 2 have achieved on the world stage i think it is safe to say they are currently a level below as things stand. Herrera might not be able to step up and play for a 'big club' either whereas the other 2 have already proven this or does that point not count when you sign someone with a sexy sounding Spanish name ?

 

[RuudTom83]

At the same time where Kroos and Fabregas not available to United buy though ? Considering they are a level above Herrera and both have went for cheaper then why didn't United bid ?

Good question! But i think Woody was told to shhhhh! so we will never know for sure.

My reasoning would be that with Mata in the squad, the current Barca version of Fab is kinda similar to Mata and therefore not needed.

Also maybe (wrongly) Carrick is still seen as good option so adding Kroos would be a case of, more of the same!

 

[Raul Madrid]

I dont think Herrera is a level below Cesc. He might be under Kroos, but that's only because Germany and Bayern's styles have really suited Kroos, whereas Bilbao have been quite limited by their restrictions.

I'm saddened another massive player like Kroos chooses Real Madrid over any other destination. I cant fathom the attraction, apart from playing with Ronaldo. Lets hope this stiffles their transferbusiness this summer.

Madrid are always many points clear of the relegation zone, that has to be at least one positive surely. The miniscule chance they have of challenging and maybe even winning trophies also which they managed to fluke last year might also count too .

 

[bucky]

20 million for Kroos and 26 million for Cesc is making the Herrera transfer look a bit steep in comparison.

Different situations really and I'd rather have Ander, who actually wants to play for us, than those under two.

 

[BigDunc9]

It's probably more how cheap Fabregas and Kroos went for than how dear Herrera was to be fair.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Is Oscar a defensive liability? Kroos does a similar job. In the WC final it was actually Klose, Kroos (and Müller) who pressed the Argentinian midfield/CBs. He is not a DM, but does his fair share of work in a 3men midfield. He suffers in a two men midfield (e.g. against Real where we played with Müller as second striker or in the national team when Özil plays as #10).
Its true that he is pretty slow, lacks mobility and his tackles could be better, but he usually knows, when he has to stop his opponent (he makes a lot of small fouls). If Kroos is a liability, what do you think about players like Mata, Özil, Silva? Must be a horror for you.
The same people, who think that he is bad, are drooling about Pirlo, which doesnt make any sense.

And Of course these numbers are gone. He plays way deeper in a system thats risk-averse. He does exactly what the coaches wanted him to do.

Oscar works harder than kroos, much harder. Oscar's only problem defensively is that he can't read the game well so his defensive efforts are wasted at times. Kroos is different, he's slow, and not the hardest worker we've seen. He works well in a 3 man midfield because he's got 2 other players to cover for him. In a 2 his defensive work is exposed to being basically redundant. Since when do we complement players on making small fouls? How about he goes there and gets the ball back thus initiating an attack? Like bastian for example?

Pirlo is nothing like kroos. Pirlo sits in front the defence and dictates the whole show. His creativity is amazing both in terms of creating chances and creating situations to hurt the opposition. He has every pass in the book and passes the ball on either foot almost equally as well. Pirlo's ability to find a free man is basically unmatched in the game. He's also better than kroos under pressure.

He played as the furthest forward in front of martinez and bastian last season and his numbers weren't any better.

 

[Blue always red]

I cannot believe people do not want this guy at United and I cannot fathom how people think he is an out and out attacking midfielder?!?! He is a carbon-copy of Scholes in his younger days. Orchestrates from deep and knows exactly when to move forward. People say he is lazy and doesn't do defensive duty, but that is the trade off for the perfect midfield. You have 1 who controls play and you have 1 who gets up and down and does the hard-work. If you can find the hard-worker who also has an eye for a pass then its a match made in heaven, ala Keane.

Kroos - Herrera would have been Scholes - Keane all over again.

 

[CLARiiON]

This is one player I won't mind at madrid. This could also mean they are not interested in Vidal and possibly Di Maria leaving.
People easily forget that the defining images of the final could easily have been different had another ex-madrid player taken his chance properly.

 

[gofelx]

Oscar works harder than kroos, much harder. Oscar's only problem defensively is that he can't read the game well so his defensive efforts are wasted at times. Kroos is different, he's slow, and not the hardest worker we've seen. He works well in a 3 man midfield because he's got 2 other players to cover for him. In a 2 his defensive work is exposed to being basically redundant. Since when do we complement players on making small fouls? How about he goes there and gets the ball back thus initiating an attack? Like bastian for example?

Pirlo is nothing like kroos. Pirlo sits in front the defence and dictates the whole show. His creativity is amazing both in terms of creating chances and creating situations to hurt the opposition. He has every pass in the book and passes the ball on either foot almost equally as well. Pirlo's ability to find a free man is basically unmatched in the game. He's also better than kroos under pressure.

He played as the furthest forward in front of martinez and bastian last season and his numbers weren't any better.

Nope.

Just look at the line-up of Germany in the Brazil game. It was Kroos-Bastian-Khedira. None of them are actually pure defensive minded players, so all of them have to do some defensive work.

Last season Martinez didn't play with Schweinsteiger in midfield, I don't know where you got that from? It was usually Lahm with Kroos and then one of Müller/Thiago/Götze/Schweinsteiger. Kroos was certainly not playing as an attacking midfielder, he dictated the play just like you described Pirlo here, Kroos is 2 footed as well. I think he had the highest pass accuracy of all CL players last season. Just compare Pirlo and Kroos at the WC and you see what I mean.

Schweinsteiger is not better at defensive duties than Kroos imo, just because he was better than him in the final doesn't mean he was for the other 60 games last season.

 

[Balu]

Schweinsteiger is not better at defensive duties than Kroos imo, just because he was better than him in the final doesn't mean he was for the other 60 games last season.

While I don't disagree with the rest, that comment really is silly. It's just plain wrong. Schweinsteiger has played as the holding midfielder for Germany about 5 years now and countless times bailed the team out when Khedira went awol. He's an excellent defensive midfielder with outstanding workrate, he's just such an incredible complete central midfielder, that he's equally good in a more advanced role.

 

[gofelx]

While I don't disagree with the rest, that comment really is silly. It's just plain wrong. Schweinsteiger has played as the holding midfielder for Germany about 5 years now and countless times bailed the team out when Khedira went awol. He's an excellent defensive midfielder with outstanding workrate, he's just such an incredible complete central midfielder, that he's equally good in a more advanced role.

I'm not saying he's bad at defending, but when we had Khedira next to Schweinsteiger it just didn't really work in my opinion (post 10' WC). It is better when he has someone like Martinez next to him. At Bayern he also doesn't occupy the "6" when they play with 4-1-4-1, because he drives forward a lot.
I really rate Schweinsteiger and he's shown what he's capable of in this WC yet again, but I don't think his defensive qualities are his strongest asset.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I'm not saying he's bad at defending, but when we had Khedira next to Schweinsteiger it just didn't really work in my opinion (post 10' WC). It is better when he has someone like Martinez next to him. At Bayern he also doesn't occupy the "6" when they play with 4-1-4-1, because he drives forward a lot.
I really rate Schweinsteiger and he's shown what he's capable of in this WC yet again, but I don't think his defensive qualities are his strongest asset.

There is one heck of a difference between not having it as his strongest assets as a box to box midfielder and him being worse defensively than Kroos. If Kroos was really better defensively than Schweinsteiger then Kroos would comfortably be one of the greatest midfielders ever with his passing range.

 

[Balu]

I'm not saying he's bad at defending, but when we had Khedira next to Schweinsteiger it just didn't really work in my opinion (post 10' WC). It is better when he has someone like Martinez next to him. At Bayern he also doesn't occupy the "6" when they play with 4-1-4-1, because he drives forward a lot.
I really rate Schweinsteiger and he's shown what he's capable of in this WC yet again, but I don't think his defensive qualities are his strongest asset.

The problem was Khedira going awol all the time, moving forward without any sense for what's happening around him and leaving gaps for Schweinsteiger to fill. As long as we defended deep and attacked mostly on the counter it wasn't a problem, but when Löw changed to the possession game after the World Cup 2010, we were regularly exposed despite Schweinsteiger's best efforts. We had Özil as a number 10 doing feck all defensively and Khedira playing an attacking box to box midfielder who lost the ball way too often and then was too far away to help defend against counterattacks. The public reactions at the Euro 2012 when Schweinsteiger complained at a press conference that he has to do too much running was a bad joke. Everyone blamed him for not being fit enough while Khedira was praised for running around like a headless chicken just because he scored a goal against Greece, yet even the Greek players could counterattack through our midfield with Khedira nowhere to be seen and Schweinsteiger constantly outnumbered.

The 433 we played in the past weeks fixed those problems, because Kroos stayed deeper (he really grew into the CM role in the past 2 years while he was most of the time still a lazy AM in 2012) and provided a 2nd body in midfield when Khedira went forward. Still, Schweinsteiger carried by far the most work in defense and can easily play an excellent holding midfielder. It's not his best role, but not because he lacks defensive workrate or discipline, it's because he can offer much more than that and it's not necessarily the best for the team if you limit him to that defensive role. That's what happened at Bayern when he was partnered with Martinez. He was allowed to adjust his role to the opponent and gave the team whatever it needed to succeed, from a 2nd holding midfielder to a CM or box to box midfielder and sometimes even an AM.

 

[Moriarty]

While I don't disagree with the rest, that comment really is silly. It's just plain wrong. Schweinsteiger has played as the holding midfielder for Germany about 5 years now and countless times bailed the team out when Khedira went awol. He's an excellent defensive midfielder with outstanding workrate, he's just such an incredible complete central midfielder, that he's equally good in a more advanced role.

The best there is in that role, in my opinion. Reads the game so well and his use of space is superb. He knows where an opposition attack is likely to start from before and anticipates it.

 

[Gio]

Schweinsteiger is not better at defensive duties than Kroos imo, just because he was better than him in the final doesn't mean he was for the other 60 games last season.

I'd say Schweinsteiger is quite a bit better than Kroos in the defensive aspects of midfield play. He's physically stronger, tackles better and doesn't possess from what I've seen Kroos' weakness of letting runners get away from him.

 

[PedroMendez]

Of course Schweinsteiger is a better player. Not only defensively but in general. Kroos is also not as good as Scholes, but using those two as benchmark for a 24 year old is a bit silly. Only very few players actually every reach this level.
Personally I dont think, that United really need him if you want to play with Herrera + Mata + X in the midfield. Thats eventually not the partnership that would suit him, but that has little to do with his individual class.
All this talk about him being lazy/bad defensively/missing in big games is nonsense and like
@LinkesAuge pointed out exactly what people (bayern fans included) said about Schweinsteiger for years.

 

[Isotope]

His shooting and the fact Scholes liked him. Too me the closest player to Scholes was Pjanic.

I still don't see it. Modric and Xavi are the closest ones I've seen to Scholes, but definitely not Kroos. I haven't watched a lot this Pjanic, except a couple of WC games. I'll keep my eyes on him, though.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Nope.

Just look at the line-up of Germany in the Brazil game. It was Kroos-Bastian-Khedira. None of them are actually pure defensive minded players, so all of them have to do some defensive work.

Last season Martinez didn't play with Schweinsteiger in midfield, I don't know where you got that from? It was usually Lahm with Kroos and then one of Müller/Thiago/Götze/Schweinsteiger. Kroos was certainly not playing as an attacking midfielder, he dictated the play just like you described Pirlo here, Kroos is 2 footed as well. I think he had the highest pass accuracy of all CL players last season. Just compare Pirlo and Kroos at the WC and you see what I mean.

Schweinsteiger is not better at defensive duties than Kroos imo, just because he was better than him in the final doesn't mean he was for the other 60 games last season.

All have to contribute but some quite obviously contribute more and its easy to see that both khedira and especially bastian contribute more.

Sorry, meant the 2012/2013 season when kroos played in front of those two.

Kroos plays much more advance than pirlo's ever played. Pirlo plays really deep, often the deepest midfielder in his sides. Very different to where kroos plays which is either as an 8(vs argentina) or the tip of a midfield 3(vs brazil). Kroos doesn't do what pirlo does. If kroos was like pirlo he'd have gotten the contract he was after at bayern, trust me on that one.

I bet you his passing accuracy was classy vs us, yet his passing was rather pointless. That's the problem with caring too much about that stat, you forget to realise that there's a difference with passing, and passing with purpose which is a hole kroos falls into too much for my liking.

Bastian is double the defensive player kroos will ever be, its that simple. Can't believe you think that, its not even up for debate.

 

[RooneyLegend]

I cannot believe people do not want this guy at United and I cannot fathom how people think he is an out and out attacking midfielder?!?! He is a carbon-copy of Scholes in his younger days. Orchestrates from deep and knows exactly when to move forward. People say he is lazy and doesn't do defensive duty, but that is the trade off for the perfect midfield. You have 1 who controls play and you have 1 who gets up and down and does the hard-work. If you can find the hard-worker who also has an eye for a pass then its a match made in heaven, ala Keane.

Kroos - Herrera would have been Scholes - Keane all over again.

You must've not seen the young/prime paul scholes if you think that's what he was about. He used to orchestrate moves, not play. His mobility is the massive difference to him and Kroos. He used to be a fantastic vertical player, one touch passing through midfields(he was an addicted to playing 1-2's) linking with yorke and realising our wide men into space. He only sat deep when his legs were beginning to fade, that's when his long range passing started being used more by him. He was as box to box as you get in those days, both our midfielders were although with different specialities.

Kroos is nothing like that. He hardly enters any boxes and doesn't play with a high level of energy. His turning on the ball and advancing of playing with crisp one touch passing linking with the second striker/am is nothing like that. Perhaps you could compare kroos to old scholes.

Seems you're not too sure on the player Herrera is either. If you think he's some sort of keane type player you are sadly mistaken. Playing kroos and him in midfield together is a recipe for disaster. Both are in teams to do the same job although with slight differences in their styles. Herrera is more mobile and has a better defensive game. He's a harder worker while kroos has a better passing range. Herrera's passing range is also good though. He's the one that will be orchestrating our play, so no, we don't need anyone to do that for us having signed him.

 

[iBoss]

Think he'll flop at madrid. Can't imagine a player like him being a hit there plus rumor is they're bringing in Rodriquez too. All in all what does this mean for isco? Hopefully he'll realise that moving to madrid wasn't the best of ideas and start looking for a new home.

Still don't understand all the fuss about him. He's a great passer but not in the tier of greats(due to his lack of vision). He's a defensive liability. Isn't the best when put under pressure and is about as much a goal threat as diego godin.

I'm very happy we have herera instead of him.

Lacks vision and goal threat.

wut.

 

[Speak]

I still don't see it. Modric and Xavi are the closest ones I've seen to Scholes, but definitely not Kroos. I haven't watched a lot this Pjanic, except a couple of WC games. I'll keep my eyes on him, though.

I don't see the resemblance to Scholes (that's both veteran deep-lying Scholes or prime Scholes) either.

He's a very good passer, and a very intelligent player, but he doesn't really dictate the tempo of a whole game. The younger Scholes was more likely to play a killer ball, played with more urgency (with the ability to slow it down), played one-touch stuff going forward at speed. And when he was no longer able to play at that speed and to play through midfields as easily, he started to dictate the game while pretty much jogging. Kroos looks comfortable a lot of the time, and impacts games, but doesn't leave his mark in the same way.

I don't see it with Pjanic either. He's similar to Thiago, in my opinion. But Thiago dictates the tempo better and starts from a bit deeper.

 

[iBoss]

I don't see the resemblance to Scholes (that's both veteran deep-lying Scholes or prime Scholes) either. He's a good passer, and an intelligent player, but he doesn't really dictate the tempo. Scholes was more likely to playa killer ball, played with more urgency, played one-touch stuff going forward at speed.

I don't see it with Pjanic either. He's similar to Thiago, in my opinion. But Thiago dictates the tempo better and starts from a bit deeper.

You don't think he's a good player? IMO he's good enough for any team in the PL.

 

[Speak]

You don't think he's a good player? IMO he's good enough for any team in the PL.

Sorry, I meant the resemblance to Scholes. I think he's a very good player.

 

[iBoss]

Sorry, I meant the resemblance to Scholes. I think he's a very good player.

Oh yeah, I think he's a different type of player to Scholes as well.

 

[NoPace]

I don't see the resemblance to Scholes (that's both veteran deep-lying Scholes or prime Scholes) either.

He's a very good passer, and a very intelligent player, but he doesn't really dictate the tempo of a whole game. The younger Scholes was more likely to play a killer ball, played with more urgency (with the ability to slow it down), played one-touch stuff going forward at speed. And when he was no longer able to play at that speed and to play through midfields as easily, he started to dictate the game while pretty much jogging. Kroos looks comfortable a lot of the time, and impacts games, but doesn't leave his mark in the same way.

I don't see it with Pjanic either. He's similar to Thiago, in my opinion. But Thiago dictates the tempo better and starts from a bit deeper.

I definitely see similarites in Pjanic and Scholes' game. They're both nimble passers who thrive in midfield without power, pace or defensively above average awareness. They're not identical, but same phylum or whatever.

 

[bosnian_red]

I still don't see it. Modric and Xavi are the closest ones I've seen to Scholes, but definitely not Kroos. I haven't watched a lot this Pjanic, except a couple of WC games. I'll keep my eyes on him, though.

You won't regret it, he's brilliant and still loads of room to grow. His development stalled a bit when he was at Lyon because of their shit manager at the time but he's been brilliant at Roma and really become a top class player. Pretty much their most important player in their midfield and attack these days. Really looking forward to seeing how they do in the Champions League next season.

Though I don't think Pjanic is like Scholes. He's a very good passer but doesn't have the same range as Scholes and is much more of a dribbler. Capable of being the one who dictates tempo or be the cutting edge, but in a different way to Scholes. Think he'd walk into any Premier League team though, apart from maybe Chelsea, but IMO he's better then Fabregas these days anyways so them too.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Strange inflation doesn't apply to Fabregas and Kross transfer in this market, yet it always happened to us.