Toni Kroos | Madridista

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Herman Van Rompuy said:
Kroos the best in the world at what he does. Those of you saying he's not are deluded and those saying Herrera is nothing compared to him are missing the point. We signed Herrera because he has totally different attributes to Kroos. Herrera has more dynamism, can tackle and is very good techinically. Our midfield's been lacking drive for a long time. Van Gaal's identified that problem immediately and so in comes Herrera. Perfect bit of business.

Van gaal probably called the Kroos deal off because he sniffed out the fact Kroos wasn't really fussed about playing for us and could've subjected us to some kind of bidding war with the likes of Real Madrid, which is something United have said they won't entertain. This will have all been discussed by Woodward and Van Gaal. Rejecting kroos looks silly to us but it won't be because Kroos was deemed "not good enough" by Van Gaal. To get back to being a real powerhouse in Europe, we need a youthful team with a burning desire to play for the club and the manager. Van Gaal knows how to cultivate that sort of energy as we saw at the world cup.
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Exactly what is it that he does? You say "what he does" as if he does a specific role. But he's not really a specialist centre-midfielder. A very good one, but not a specialist in any area.

Whereas for Pirlo/Xavi you can say "he's the best at what he does" - dictating the game from deep, and also creating chances from deep.

Or Vidal - best at pure, high-energy box-to-box (which a number of others (Khedira, Ramirez, Guarin) try to do.)
 
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Mainoldo said:
By doing what exactly except for being part of winning teams? Bayern have the best team in the bundesliga, Germany have the best crop of players in the world right now with Spain, its not a surprise if he wins medals his playing in great teams. Fergie judged Gerrard as not a 'top top' player because he lost the majority of midfield battles against Scholes and Keane (personal i think thats rubbish) but I haven't seen Kroos win a midfield battle against a top player yet. Madrid destroyed him and his lack of strength and mobility cost Bayern a goal. He was oblivious against us in both legs and except for the Portugal game he just done enough. In all honest Pogba showed more class than him in the France match. I just think a lot of you have rose tinted glasses on and are too obsessed in thinking because he resembles Scholes it would be rude not to call him world class.
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When it comes to Pogba, I'm clearly living in a different universe than the Caf. I really don't get it. I thought he was completely useless in that game and the French nationalteam only created dangerous situations when they bypassed the midfield with long balls. Kroos didn't have a great game either, but that was mostly down to Germany taking the lead early (Kroos won the freekick, that lead to the goal, and gave the assist by the way) and then happily sitting deep and trying to kill the game on the counter, which doesn't really suit his game. Pogba wasn't able to win the ball back in midfield and he did feck all in terms of penetrating the German defense.

While I agree that Kroos is overrated on the Caf, I've no idea how you can claim that Pogba or Thiago have done more against top teams than Kroos. That's just ignorant. Kroos' best game for Bayern was in my opinion the return leg against Real in 2012, when Schweinsteiger still wasn't fit after his injury and Kroos bailed him out with a terrific performance. And that's definitely not the only great performance from him against top opponents. I don't remember Pogba or Thiago ever having a comparable impact in a big game against a top opponent, I'm not even sure if they ever started in a game comparable to a CL semifinal.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Kroos the best in the world at what he does. Those of you saying he's not are deluded and those saying Herrera is nothing compared to him are missing the point. We signed Herrera because he has totally different attributes to Kroos. Herrera has more dynamism, can tackle and is very good techinically. Our midfield's been lacking drive for a long time. Van Gaal's identified that problem immediately and so in comes Herrera. Perfect bit of business.

Van gaal probably called the Kroos deal off because he sniffed out the fact Kroos wasn't really fussed about playing for us and could've subjected us to some kind of bidding war with the likes of Real Madrid, which is something United have said they won't entertain. This will have all been discussed by Woodward and Van Gaal. Rejecting kroos looks silly to us but it won't be because Kroos was deemed "not good enough" by Van Gaal. To get back to being a real powerhouse in Europe, we need a youthful team with a burning desire to play for the club and the manager. Van Gaal knows how to cultivate that sort of energy as we saw at the world cup.
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Kroos doesn't really have a role or position in any midfield. The reason why he get's picked is because he does the basic things well and plays wherever in midfield you ask him to (barring a winger). He can be a good box to box on one day and a solid holding mid some other time. You want players like that in your team who can adapt and play a position without looking like a duck out of water most of the times. I've been watching Germany since the 1982 World Cup and Kroos is what we call a typical and efficient German midfield player.
 
Mainoldo said:
No Pogba? Gundogan, Alonso, Pirlo, Pjanic, Koke, Fabregas? I'd even go as far and say Thiago is better than him.

His in the exact same tier as the players mentioned and has done nothing to show otherwise. He's a great passer but he doesn't dectate the tempo... Thats rubbish!!!
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Pogba is what, 21 years old? Nowhere near kroos' level yet. Gundogan has been injured for over a year, Alonso is way past his prime and isn't at kroos' level, same with pirlo. Fabregas isn't what he was at arsenal, though that's a similar level to kroos IMO. Pjanic, as much as I love him, just isn't as good as kroos. Same with koke. Maybe they might get there, but it's more potential currently.
Also thiago isn't better then him. Potential wise probably, but currently he just isn't. There's a reason why kroos has been pretty much their most played player last season (one of the most minutes).
 
Balu said:
When it comes to Pogba, I'm clearly living in a different universe than the Caf. I really don't get it. I thought he was completely useless in that game and the French nationalteam only created dangerous situations when they bypassed the midfield with long balls. Kroos didn't have a great game either, but that was mostly down to Germany taking the lead early (Kroos won the freekick, that lead to the goal, and gave the assist by the way) and then happily sitting deep and trying to kill the game on the counter, which doesn't really suit his game. Pogba wasn't able to win the ball back in midfield and he did feck all in terms of penetrating the German defense.

While I agree that Kroos is overrated on the Caf, I've no idea how you can claim that Pogba or Thiago have done more against top teams than Kroos. That's just ignorant. Kroos' best game for Bayern was in my opinion the return leg against Real in 2012, when Schweinsteiger still wasn't fit after his injury and Kroos bailed him out with a terrific performance. And that's definitely not the only great performance from him against top opponents. I don't remember Pogba or Thiago ever having a comparable impact in a big game against a top opponent, I'm not even sure if they ever started in a game comparable to a CL semifinal.
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I understand that to an extent but dominating games was my answer to these ridiculess world class claims, not compared to Pogba or Thiago (they also still have a lot to prove). Pogba played a great game against Real Madrid in the champions league last season which was a show piece two excellent midfields.
 
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bosnian_red said:
Pogba is what, 21 years old? Nowhere near kroos' level yet. Gundogan has been injured for over a year, Alonso is way past his prime and isn't at kroos' level, same with pirlo. Fabregas isn't what he was at arsenal, though that's a similar level to kroos IMO. Pjanic, as much as I love him, just isn't as good as kroos. Same with koke. Maybe they might get there, but it's more potential currently.
Also thiago isn't better then him. Potential wise probably, but currently he just isn't. There's a reason why kroos has been pretty much their most played player last season (one of the most minutes).
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He's not at his level because he's 21? You can explain that. Injured or not Gundogan is better that was not my point. Now if your too old your not better either is there a restriction to this debate. Alonso is still better than Kroos right now. The rest i would put down to preference.

He played the most games because he stayed fit longer than the others, if his so crucial they would have game him what he wants, not true?
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Kroos the best in the world at what he does. Those of you saying he's not are deluded and those saying Herrera is nothing compared to him are missing the point. We signed Herrera because he has totally different attributes to Kroos. Herrera has more dynamism, can tackle and is very good techinically. Our midfield's been lacking drive for a long time. Van Gaal's identified that problem immediately and so in comes Herrera. Perfect bit of business.

Van gaal probably called the Kroos deal off because he sniffed out the fact Kroos wasn't really fussed about playing for us and could've subjected us to some kind of bidding war with the likes of Real Madrid, which is something United have said they won't entertain. This will have all been discussed by Woodward and Van Gaal. Rejecting kroos looks silly to us but it won't be because Kroos was deemed "not good enough" by Van Gaal. To get back to being a real powerhouse in Europe, we need a youthful team with a burning desire to play for the club and the manager. Van Gaal knows how to cultivate that sort of energy as we saw at the world cup.
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It seems like Van Gaal likes his midfielders to be full of energy. That's why he signed off on Herrera(even though Moyes identified him) and why we are also after Vidal and dont forget his love affair with Strootman. For all his ability, Kroos doesnt fit the bill when it comes dynamism. We got carried away comparing him to Paul Scholes but Paul scored a lot of tap ins, a testament to his determination to get in the box. Tony Kroos just doesnt make those runs enough in my opinion. Those goals he scored in the semis were a rarity.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Kroos the best in the world at what he does.
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Modric has that lucid short and mid range pass, Kroos, not so often. Modric also has the best outside of the foot pass. Last season stats say he also has the highest percentage in long passing (in top 5 European leagues). Kroos can't really dribble and his passing suffers much more when under pressure. He also doesn't have the energy and the agility to move around the pitch as fast. He does have a great shot though. My point is that Kroos is a very good player that any manager would love to have, but there are better midfielders then him at Bayern and at Madrid, better at whatever it is that "he does best".
 
Best outside of the foot pass? what's next? Di maria has the best Rabona, so he is a better than other players who just passes normally?
 
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Okay, Kroos to Madrid (almost) confirmed by Rummenigge. Just the signature is missing and maybe some negotiations for the transfer fee.
 
Goodbye and good luck. We'll survive it.

Worldclass on his (and his team's!) day, but when the shit hits the fan, he's not the guy to pull you out of trouble. That's the reason he's not earning as much at Bayern as others.
 
A great footballer when its all rosey, but right now we need grafters as well as footballers. Herrera and Vidal will be a perfect CM pairing right now.
 
Mainoldo said:
By doing what exactly except for being part of winning teams? Bayern have the best team in the bundesliga, Germany have the best crop of players in the world right now with Spain, its not a surprise if he wins medals his playing in great teams. Fergie judged Gerrard as not a 'top top' player because he lost the majority of midfield battles against Scholes and Keane (personal i think thats rubbish) but I haven't seen Kroos win a midfield battle against a top player yet. Madrid destroyed him and his lack of strength and mobility cost Bayern a goal. He was oblivious against us in both legs and except for the Portugal game he just done enough. In all honest Pogba showed more class than him in the France match. I just think a lot of you have rose tinted glasses on and are too obsessed in thinking because he resembles Scholes it would be rude not to call him world class.
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You don't watch him play much do you? Do you seriously think Bayern would play Kroos pretty much every game over the last few seasons just for the sake of it? How many games have you watched him play exactly? What can you say about Rooney in the two games against Bayern, he looked like a 3 Million pound striker. Does that mean he's a bang average player?
Kroos had so many great games in his career, but of course you're cherry picking the Madrid game where the whole Bayern team wasn't working anymore. Look at Robben in that game, now compare it to his world cup performances...

I thought many people would realize how important Kroos can be for a team, I don't know any other player who is as good at distributing the ball as him. Did you watch him against ManC in the Champions League, where he absolutely bossed the midfield against Yaya Toure? Or the Arsenal away game where he scored a beautiful longshot to get the win at the Emirates? What about the game WC games against Portugal and Brazil? Most probably only remember him for his stupid header in the final though :lol:
 
gofelx said:
You don't watch him play much do you? Do you seriously think Bayern would play Kroos pretty much every game over the last few seasons just for the sake of it? How many games have you watched him play exactly? What can you say about Rooney in the two games against Bayern, he looked like a 3 Million pound striker. Does that mean he's a bang average player?
Kroos had so many great games in his career, but of course you're cherry picking the Madrid game where the whole Bayern team wasn't working anymore. Look at Robben in that game, now compare it to his world cup performances...

I thought many people would realize how important Kroos can be for a team, I don't know any other player who is as good at distributing the ball as him. Did you watch him against ManC in the Champions League, where he absolutely bossed the midfield against Yaya Toure? Or the Arsenal away game where he scored a beautiful longshot to get the win at the Emirates? What about the game WC games against Portugal and Brazil? Most probably only remember him for his stupid header in the final though :lol:
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Well i've watched all them games you've mentioned so... i've probably watched him a fare bit. Why is the the best distributor in the game? It's silly stuff like that which annoy me. He hasn't bossed games.. just like you've mentioned his looked good in games where his team are doing well.. like you can look bad when your team isn't. Tell you what give me a game against a good opposition midfield where his controlled the game and i'll watch it. For instance i've watched Sweinsteiger boss Inter Milan in the final even though they lost.. I've seen Gundogan boss Bayern in there cup final 3 years ago.. I've seen alot of good midfielders boss games which i don't have to make a 20 game review of so i'm pretty sure having watched a decent bit of Kroos I should have atleast seen these world class traits!!

He has great distribution (Portugal game for instance) and a quality shot with both feet, if that all it requires to be world class these days in centre midfielder wake me up when Xavi's massiah arrives.
 
Mainoldo said:
Well i've watched all them games you've mentioned so... i've probably watched him a fare bit. Why is the the best distributor in the game? It's silly stuff like that which annoy me. He hasn't bossed games.. just like you've mentioned his looked good in games where his team are doing well.. like you can look bad when your team isn't. Tell you what give me a game against a good opposition midfield where his controlled the game and i'll watch it. For instance i've watched Sweinsteiger boss Inter Milan in the final even though they lost.. I've seen Gundogan boss Bayern in there cup final 3 years ago.. I've seen alot of good midfielders boss games which i don't have to make a 20 game review of so i'm pretty sure having watched a decent bit of Kroos I should have atleast seen these world class traits!!

He has great distribution (Portugal game for instance) and a quality shot with both feet, if that all it requires to be world class these days in centre midfielder wake me up when Xavi's massiah arrives.
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hehe.. makes me smile (assuming) he is going to Real. Now only hoping Di Maria to leave ;)
 
gofelx said:
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Yes, he has matches like this. Why does nobody show the others? The ones when he does not track back, when he seems to give a shit, when he is the slowest and least running player on the pitch etc. When the opponent does not let him any space and when you really have to fight. The matches in which it is really difficult because we would need more dynamic play and risk and less side passes. Or why is always the one shot of 40 shown that goes in and not the 20 in which he does not see the better positioned fellow player...

Maybe others loose the ball more often or do more bad passes - but when they loose them they run to get it back and do not seem so less bothered like he is.

I cannot imagine Kroos dying on the field for others like a Schweinsteiger can when it really matters - yes, he has lazy matches, too - but...

And that is probably why a lot of the Bayern fans will not miss him when he leaves - he never showed the passion others do. Or the identification with the club. And we do not only mean the homegrown players but a lot of the players that came from elsewhere.

Could be that we miss him - in a special style of play we probably will. But we will see Alaba play in midfield now much more and he might not offer Kroos passing quality but a lot more running, dynamic, passion and drive. We will see a Höjbjerg that needs to grow and needs to get time on the pitch - in the Cup final and against Ibrahimovic he really played great and so he still is so young he is so eager.

There is reasons why Bayern does not want to put him up in the wage rank despite his passing abilities...
 
Blackwidow said:
Yes, he has matches like this. Why does nobody show the others? The ones when he does not track back, when he seems to give a shit, when he is the slowest and least running player on the pitch etc. When the opponent does not let him any space and when you really have to fight. The matches in which it is really difficult because we would need more dynamic play and risk and less side passes. Or why is always the one shot of 40 shown that goes in and not the 20 in which he does not see the better positioned fellow player...

Maybe others loose the ball more often or do more bad passes - but when they loose them they run to get it back and do not seem so less bothered like he is.

I cannot imagine Kroos dying on the field for others like a Schweinsteiger can when it really matters - yes, he has lazy matches, too - but...

And that is probably why a lot of the Bayern fans will not miss him when he leaves - he never showed the passion others do. Or the identification with the club. And we do not only mean the homegrown players but a lot of the players that came from elsewhere.

Could be that we miss him - in a special style of play we probably will. But we will see Alaba play in midfield now much more and he might not offer Kroos passing quality but a lot more running, dynamic, passion and drive. We will see a Höjbjerg that needs to grow and needs to get time on the pitch - in the Cup final and against Ibrahimovic he really played great and so he still is so young he is so eager.

There is reasons why Bayern does not want to put him up in the wage rank despite his passing abilities...
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Sorry, but that is a very stupid quote. Could come from Bild after Euro 2012 semi.
Toni is a top pro. He is just very calm, keeps himself balanced. So it sometimes looks a bit odd, specially if you are a fan who is very emotional invested.
He is human. He had bad games and will have some.
But he has very few and can still get better. Im not happy with Peps move here, but Toni is not that fast(talking the high levels here, he is still fine there) and Pep wants the smaller Thiago with more drive in small areas? Who knows.
We all should just agree(trolls dont count) that he is a world class midfielder. Where you rank him is up to you all.
I for one would take a guy, who won the treble(did his "later stages CL glory" steps in 2012 and got the reward 2013) and the world cup( a big leader and player in that run) with 24 years of age. Xavi and Iniesta could only dream of that with 24.
 
Van Gaal calling off the Kloos deal, and according to some the Cesc deal. Does anyone have any reliable links to stories about this? Something with quotes from actual, named sources? Or is this just another of the tales that will be believed for years to come despite there being no proof at all?
 
Blackwidow said:
Yes, he has matches like this. Why does nobody show the others? The ones when he does not track back, when he seems to give a shit, when he is the slowest and least running player on the pitch etc. When the opponent does not let him any space and when you really have to fight. The matches in which it is really difficult because we would need more dynamic play and risk and less side passes. Or why is always the one shot of 40 shown that goes in and not the 20 in which he does not see the better positioned fellow player...

Maybe others loose the ball more often or do more bad passes - but when they loose them they run to get it back and do not seem so less bothered like he is.

I cannot imagine Kroos dying on the field for others like a Schweinsteiger can when it really matters - yes, he has lazy matches, too - but...

And that is probably why a lot of the Bayern fans will not miss him when he leaves - he never showed the passion others do. Or the identification with the club. And we do not only mean the homegrown players but a lot of the players that came from elsewhere.

Could be that we miss him - in a special style of play we probably will. But we will see Alaba play in midfield now much more and he might not offer Kroos passing quality but a lot more running, dynamic, passion and drive. We will see a Höjbjerg that needs to grow and needs to get time on the pitch - in the Cup final and against Ibrahimovic he really played great and so he still is so young he is so eager.

There is reasons why Bayern does not want to put him up in the wage rank despite his passing abilities...
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Are you a Bayern fan?
 
Tbh I'd rate Tiago higher. Before he got injured he was bayen's best midfielder. Kroos is a very good all rounder but he doesn't have the standout raw ability of someone like Tiago.
 
While I think Kroos is a great player with good sniping abilities, I kind of agree with a decision to let him go. He's pretty calculating and for some reason I keep calculating his worth, too. Is he worth a ton of money? Sure. Is he worth as much as Schweinsteiger, Ribery or Lahm? Not really... he's still not consistent enough. I am sad that he's leaving Bayern, but I'm not thinking he's going to drastically improve Madrid. Nor is he a big loss for Bayern. There are alternatives that don't ask for the same level acknowledgement that the two captains and Europe's Footballer of the Year get.
 
He's world class and will continue to prove as much at Real Madrid. Here's hoping he's available on the cheap in a couple of years though.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He's world class and will continue to prove as much at Real Madrid. Here's hoping he's available on the cheap in a couple of years though.
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C'mon now............... We pretty much never look for players on the cheap, especially when they have Kroos ability. We are pretty much back on top and balling when it comes to money now.

I still think he rejected us in favour of Madrid (Understandable) because surely there is no way LVG wouldn't want him. His eye for a pass in fantastic.
 
He's a brilliant player, one i'am disappointed we didn't get. He reminds of Scholes, their abilities on the pitch are very similar.
 
JustAFan said:
Van Gaal calling off the Kloos deal, and according to some the Cesc deal. Does anyone have any reliable links to stories about this? Something with quotes from actual, named sources? Or is this just another of the tales that will be believed for years to come despite there being no proof at all?
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Jamie Jackson, one of the journalists clearly briefed by the club on Monday night that we are not interested in Vidal (lol) was the first to break the Van Gaal not interested in Kroos story on May 22nd.:

http://www.theguardian.com/football...ster-united-interest-toni-kroos-bayern-munich

On the 23rd of May (says it all), Kroos spoke directly to the media and said "Manchester United was never an option". Clearly he felt he was on his way to us before the plug was pulled and the following day he went public for damage limitation.

In this article: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/02/chelsea-30m-move-cesc-fabregas-barcelona-arsenal

It says: "Manchester United had come close to securing the older man’s services last summer only for a £35m bid to be rejected, but he is not now a priority for Louis van Gaal."

Again it would appear Jamie Jackson was briefed that we were not in for him. My guess is to make it clear that he is in no way rejecting us when he inevitably moves.



As for Van Gaal's actual targets: Herrera and in my opinion, quite obviously, Vidal. I think it's no surprise that they both have immense work rate, cover huge about of ground and press, press, press. They both love to put a tackle in too. Not something you can easily say for Kroos and Fabregas.
 
Very good player, wouldn't say he's one of the best in the world or anything like that (you can chuck facts or write a paragraph or even laugh but no one's going to chance my mind or convince me otherwise) but this is one I don't mind missing out on.
 
@Scargrow

Yes. I am a Bayern fan - since end of the 70s or as long as I remember. The time I actively remind me starting to watch football and Bayern was with the end of the Gerd Müller area and the beginning of Breitnigge.

That is just how I and a lot Bayern fans that I know think of Toni Kroos. We follow his development closely since 7 years since he came to Bayern.

Some very direct ones would tell you that we won the CL in the treble year without him and he was not missed one moment.

And van Gaal - he looks for more in his players than just the abilities. And just face it - he did not want him out of his own reasons even if he has very good passing abilities. But it might be the same reasons why Bayern does not offer him the big contract he wants.
 
For me he is definitely a top 10 CM, Vidal, Modric, Toure, Iniesta, Busquets, Kroos, Schweinstieger, Gundogan, Ramsey, Alonso.

Whether he is the best of the bunch is impossible to say, because everyone has a different opinion on what the ideal midfield player is, some like pace, others power, technicality, skills etc etc.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
For me he is definitely a top 10 CM, Vidal, Modric, Toure, Iniesta, Busquets, Kroos, Schweinstieger, Gundogan, Ramsey, Alonso.

Whether he is the best of the bunch is impossible to say, because everyone has a different opinion on what the ideal midfield player is, some like pace, others power, technicality, skills etc etc.
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Err you've out Ramsey in there.

Bit premature no? Half an excellent season.
 
Just based on this WC, I don't see the similarity of Kroos and Scholes people have been talking about. Scholes was more dynamic, better passer, and never shy on getting physical. I see him more of Xabi Alonso type, minus the nastiness and less long passing ability.
 
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Pexbo said:
Err you've out Ramsey in there.

Bit premature no? Half an excellent season.
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Ramsey was excellent pretty much every time I've seen him play last season, scoring 16 goals from midfield in half a season is crazy. He could have easily been player of the year if he was fully fit throughout.

I agree, it might be a bit premature but he single handily carried Arsenal at times.
 
Isotope said:
Just based on this WC, I don't see the similarity of Kroos and Scholes people have been talking about. Scholes was more dynamic, better passer, and never shy on getting physical. I see him more of Xabi Alonso type, minus the nastiness and less long passing ability.
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His shooting and the fact Scholes liked him. Too me the closest player to Scholes was Pjanic.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
For me he is definitely a top 10 CM, Vidal, Modric, Toure, Iniesta, Busquets, Kroos, Schweinstieger, Gundogan, Ramsey, Alonso.

Whether he is the best of the bunch is impossible to say, because everyone has a different opinion on what the ideal midfield player is, some like pace, others power, technicality, skills etc etc.
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Based on last season I would take gundogan out of there as he was injured and put di maria in after how well he played last season. Koke would have to be there too.
 
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mancan92 said:
Tbh I'd rate Tiago higher. Before he got injured he was bayen's best midfielder. Kroos is a very good all rounder but he doesn't have the standout raw ability of someone like Tiago.
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How do you get to that conclusion? Thiago looked good in a few matches against a few weak Bundesliga teams (like Frankfurt who didn't even field their best XI because they had the Europa League games). Last season Kroos was definitely Bayerns best midfielder, Thiago was good but he still has a lot to prove. Hopefully Thiago can stay fit next season so he can really show what he's capable of.

Kroos, for instance, has a much better shot and he doesn't make as many mistakes as Thiago does. They are completely different midfielders and complement each other very well.
 
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