Tom Cleverley | 2014/15 Performances (on loan at Aston Villa)

[Robbie Boy]

So if people call it how it is and say he's an average player, it's now construed as 'Cleverley bashing'? This place is awful tedious at times.

I only watched the game yesterday when I got in from work as I had it recorded. I can honestly say that I didn't notice much of Cleverley. Anything I saw was fine and I would give him a 6.5 rating. He didn't appear to do much wrong and made some good passes.

@RedSky well I have alluded to the fact that I only watched the match after I made my last post. That post had nothing to do with the Liverpool match. If you are trying to tell me that Cleverley hasn't gone into his shell over the past two seasons and played with no balls whatsoever, then I would be genuinely amazed. As for the everyone wants to be like Real and have superstars in every position, what, just what? Has anyone actually said that? I think you will find most are saying he is average and a decent squad player. Have other top PL teams got better squad players in that position? Yes, some do / some don't. So really, we could do better than Cleverley as a 'squad player' but for £8m (the price he's linked to Everton at) we wouldn't do much better, so I'll happily keep him and see how this season goes.

 

[Roboc7]

I thought he is okay on those technical areas, just quite a bit of headless chicken sometimes and not performing up to the standards.

He is ok technically but that is not enough at this level when you don’t have any physical attributes to fall back on, especially if he regards himself as a creative player which I think he does. It’s for that reason that I think he would be better trying to be a defensive player because his limitations would not be as obvious and he might have more to offer but even then I still don’t think he should be near the starting eleven.

I would be happy to see him stay if he is 5th choice next season, don’t think he is good enough to be any higher than that, I think a club this big with the expectations it has can reasonably expect to have 3-4 cm’s who are either good enough to play week in week out or have the potential to be good enough with another 1-2 as backup options to play in the cups and fill gaps. Personally don’t think Clev is or will ever be good enough to play week in week out.

 

[Stack]

He's just not a fantastic footballer and he doesn't make up for it with great heart or wonderful physique.

He is ok technically but that is not enough at this level when you don’t have any physical attributes to fall back on, especially if he regards himself as a creative player which I think he does. It’s for that reason that I think he would be better trying to be a defensive player because his limitations would not be as obvious and he might have more to offer but even then I still don’t think he should be near the starting eleven.

I would be happy to see him stay if he is 5th choice next season, don’t think he is good enough to be any higher than that, I think a club this big with the expectations it has can reasonably expect to have 3-4 cm’s who are either good enough to play week in week out or have the potential to be good enough with another 1-2 as backup options to play in the cups and fill gaps. Personally don’t think Clev is or will ever be good enough to play week in week out.

I think he is technically very very good. He receives the ball with text book body shape and touch. He can receive with either foot, both front foot and back foot receiving. He for the majority of time attempts to take the ball with a positive touch and actually has a varied passing range.
The area where he is lacking is that he very rarely travels with the ball driving forward. Also he needs to take a few more risks with his passing. he will pull out of a possible pass if the receiver doesnt have a decent amount of time or space and so ends up moving the ball sideways or back to try and retain possession rather than risk a bigger reward.
Despite what some on here think, he always is available for the ball, he constantly shows for the ball and if he isnt showing for the ball he is moving in such a way to create a passing channel for someone else.

I just wish he would travel in to space with the ball more often and attempt riskier passes.

 

[Joga Bonito]

"Under the new manager we are being told to think of things as a team but personally it has gone well. I definitely think I can fit into the way he plays. I don’t think I have got to make much adaptation because he likes passers, movers, and people who understand the game."
"I would still have loved to have gone (to the World Cup) but I think I made it hard for myself to go to Brazil with not playing in the last three months of the season. I played in a lot of the qualifiers, but I’m not bitter about it. I’m fully hoping to get back into the squad and help us get to the next Euros."

I totally agree some of the criticism has been OTT but I can't believe how good I thinks he is.

First he comes out with the TC23 brand when he has barely made it as a player, then says he models his game on the Spanish style. He goes on to claim he is a LVG type of player and now makes those claims above. He needs to keep low profile off the field and prove his mettle on the field. Look at what Young has done during the preseason, he has buckled down and worked hard to impress. Cleverley has had some decent performances with some below average ones(esp the one where he was the captain) and he needs to be more sensible in the things he says to the press. He is not helping himself one bit.

 

[The-Natural]

I must say i'm not fully in agreement with those who describe him as technically very good. When attempting to hit a long ball first time he swings his foot too much causing it to loop which takes the pace out of the pass and ultimately the move. A small thing, perhaps, but it should have been ironed out by now.

 

[marjen]

I must say i'm not fully in agreement with those who describe him as technically very good. When attempting to hit a long ball first time he swings his foot too much causing it to loop which takes the pace out of the pass and ultimately the move. A small thing, perhaps, but it should have been ironed out by now.

Yup, this is annoying.

Also he doesn't play with his head up. He'll take a touch or two, then look up, which in turn is why his potential receivers often have too little space and he opts for the safer pass. This doesn't suggest he's fully comfortable technically.

 

[Roboc7]

I think he is technically very very good. He receives the ball with text book body shape and touch. He can receive with either foot, both front foot and back foot receiving. He for the majority of time attempts to take the ball with a positive touch and actually has a varied passing range.
The area where he is lacking is that he very rarely travels with the ball driving forward. Also he needs to take a few more risks with his passing. he will pull out of a possible pass if the receiver doesnt have a decent amount of time or space and so ends up moving the ball sideways or back to try and retain possession rather than risk a bigger reward.
Despite what some on here think, he always is available for the ball, he constantly shows for the ball and if he isnt showing for the ball he is moving in such a way to create a passing channel for someone else.

I just wish he would travel in to space with the ball more often and attempt riskier passes.

Very very good technically implies he is well above average and should be amongst the better players in the league and he is nowhere near that level unfortunately. He is ordinary and I don’t see what is wrong with saying that, his performances over the last 3 years reflect that, there is a big difference between being a certain type of player and actually being good at it. Clev is the type of player who likes to receive the ball, play a pass, stay on the move but he isn’t actually good enough to play that way effectively at the required level.

 

[Red Phoenix Rising]

Very very good technically implies he is well above average and should be amongst the better players in the league and he is nowhere near that level unfortunately. He is ordinary and I don’t see what is wrong with saying that, his performances over the last 3 years reflect that, there is a big difference between being a certain type of player and actually being good at it. Clev is the type of player who likes to receive the ball, play a pass, stay on the move but he isn’t actually good enough to play that way effectively at the required level.

How do you quantify a central midfielder though? Even more, due to the role that he was clearly uncomfortable playing last season. It's not as though he's a striker or a defender where you can judge clean sheets or goals. 'Technically good' implies he has good technique which is a sound assessment. He's not a hell for leather player and he's not untidy.

 

[Cassidy]

How do you quantify a central midfielder though? Even more, due to the role that he was clearly uncomfortable playing last season. It's not as though he's a striker or a defender where you can judge clean sheets or goals. 'Technically god' implies he has good technique which is a sound assessment. He's not a hell for leather player and he's not untidy.

He doesn't have very very good technique, his technique is pretty average for a CM IMO, he doesn't for example take a ball on the turn whilst under pressure, will usually just pass the ball back to where it came from in that scenario.

Not that I am saying he has poor technique, I just don't believe his technique is very very good.

 

[Brwned]

So if people call it how it is and say he's an average player, it's now construed as 'Cleverley bashing'? This place is awful tedious at times.

"Call it how it is". Hmmm. Weren't you "calling it how it is" when you called Cabaye an average player? He looked the part in a very good French side at the World Cup. Tedious indeed.

"Under the new manager we are being told to think of things as a team but personally it has gone well. I definitely think I can fit into the way he plays. I don’t think I have got to make much adaptation because he likes passers, movers, and people who understand the game."
"I would still have loved to have gone (to the World Cup) but I think I made it hard for myself to go to Brazil with not playing in the last three months of the season. I played in a lot of the qualifiers, but I’m not bitter about it. I’m fully hoping to get back into the squad and help us get to the next Euros."

I totally agree some of the criticism has been OTT but I can't believe how good I thinks he is.

He thinks he's good enough to play for England - that's not exactly having an extremely high opinion of himself given he did play a fair bit under Hodgson and got praise from his manager, team-mates and the media alike for his England performances. The only other thing he says there is that his style of play is suited to how Van Gaal sets his team up which is obviously true - and the fact he's confident enough to say it suggests that he has slotted in well to Van Gaal's system and feels comfortable under his management.

 

[shaggy]

Cleverley's technique is mediocre at best. I hope he doesn't feature much for us next season to be honest, he just does nothing of any note on the field.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I must say i'm not fully in agreement with those who describe him as technically very good. When attempting to hit a long ball first time he swings his foot too much causing it to loop which takes the pace out of the pass and ultimately the move. A small thing, perhaps, but it should have been ironed out by now.

That's such a bizarre criticism. He's a professional footballer FFS. I think he's capable of smacking a pass with his laces if he wants to. If he chooses to wrap his instep around the ball and put a bit of curl on the pass instead, that will be for a reason. Not because he's incapable of passing the ball using any other technique.

I know every fecker on here thinks they're some kind of unheralded coaching wunderkind but the overly technical way in which people seem to want to criticise managers and footballers these days gets right on my tits...

 

[Robbie Boy]

@Brwned yes, I still don't particularly rate Cabaye, your point is? You're beyond tedious, Brwned, you know that.

So Cleverley is better than average, really? In the context of things; playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world etc, he's really better than average? Wow.

 

[RedSky]

I think you will find most are saying he is average and a decent squad player.

That's the argument here Robbie. I don't think that's actually the case, he constantly gets low ratings in every game despite when he actually has a decent game. Like the Liverpool game for example when he was probably our best CM in the game, despite that he still gets an awful rating because his name is Cleverley.

 

[Robbie Boy]

That's the argument here Robbie. I don't think that's actually the case, he constantly gets low ratings in every game despite when he actually has a decent game. Like the Liverpool game for example when he was probably our best CM in the game, despite that he still gets an awful rating because his name is Cleverley.

Well I tend to ignore the kiddie FM generation who apparently call for a team of 'superstars'. I can't say I honestly see it all to often, to be honest. The more balanced, insightful posters all appear to agree that he's fine as a squad player. He still gets dogs abuse from some, but so what?

Some are twisting things slightly. I don't see people calling for all these alleged superstars in every position; what I do find is people saying we should be improving in a notoriously problematic area of the pitch for us. Cleverley is fine, but is that really enough? If he stays, then so-be-it, he can be a grand squad player. If he left, I wouldn't be overly-upset but I would ship others off before him.

Things will always be polemic with Cleverley, but it certainly doesn't bother me. If people want to call him the worst player ever, etc, you can ignore them.

 

[red_7]

he goes into tackles like a pussy and looses the ball to easily, is error prone. His passing, yes some days its ok. In total this player was nowhere near United quality (if we expect to be champions , not seventh) in the last year or longer and this pre-season wasn't any difference. I don't mind if he is going as even for LvG here is a hell lot of improvement necessary on this player

 

[Roboc7]

How do you quantify a central midfielder though? Even more, due to the role that he was clearly uncomfortable playing last season. It's not as though he's a striker or a defender where you can judge clean sheets or goals. 'Technically good' implies he has good technique which is a sound assessment. He's not a hell for leather player and he's not untidy.

I am not saying he is untidy or a terrible player just he is not good enough and I think that is a very fair assessment of his abilities and performances over the last 3 seasons, not just last season. In my opinion Cleverley is closer in ability to players at clubs like Swansea, Villa, Newcastle etc than he is to players at Arsenal, Chelsea or City let alone Barcelona, Real or Bayern.

As I said I think he is technically pretty average at this level and if we do bring in another CM of any quality it will be easy to quantify because we will see the difference between a quality player and Cleverley.

 

[izec]

Now that Young starts improving and performs well, people start abusing Cleverley for decent perfomances and actually improvement based on last season. I criticised him before, but he actually played well against Liverpool, dont know what most of you are talking about. He even put in some nice tackles, what i want to see more of him.

Whats the option? Selling him for 8m to Everton and buying another squad player like Blind for 17m or what? I was shocked at the rating he got, some of you really just focus on him and want him sold, unless he becomes a world beater. He is a squad palyer, every team has some and needs some. I know we would all like Pogba, Vidal, Gündogan, Koke etc at the same time in our squad, but it wont happen. The earlier you accept that he will stay, the better.

 

[NoWinNoFee]

He's a bit like a Mokujin to me, watches other players and tries to copy them (badly) with no identity of his own.

He tries to strike the ball like Beckham, you can tell he's watched Iniesta/Xavi - When i watch him play i just think 'who is Tom Cleverley' and other than short backwards and sides passes, what characteristics make 'Tom Cleverley' a player that stands out ?

 

[Stobzilla]

He's a bit like a Mokujin to me, watches other players and tries to copy them (badly) with no identity of his own.

He tries to strike the ball like Beckham, you can tell he's watched Iniesta/Xavi, when i watch him play i just think 'who is Tom Cleverley' ?

I like Tom, but fair feckin play

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

He really is painfully average. Honestly, when he receives the ball I feel he does the exact thing in what I'd do. Before he passes it, I'm there thinking "I'd probably pass it back to Smalling now", and that's what he goes and do. He's just very predictable.

Might be a good squad player, and I don't expect us to get rid of him this Summer. I just wish he had more of an identity. There are players like Carrick who go about their business quietly but efficiently. You know he's not a flashy player, but you know what Carrick does.

With Cleverley, I don't really know what he offers us when he's on the pitch except someone who will consistently pass the ball back or sideways.

Hopefully Van Gaal can do something with him.

 

[ChrisG11]

He doesn't have very very good technique, his technique is pretty average for a CM IMO, he doesn't for example take a ball on the turn whilst under pressure, will usually just pass the ball back to where it came from in that scenario.

Not that I am saying he has poor technique, I just don't believe his technique is very very good.

A good example would be that he never actually strikes a ball with his laces/instep for starters, really winds me up.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A good example would be that he never actually strikes a ball with his laces/instep for starters, really winds me up.

Whaaaat? Seriously?

 

[ChrisG11]

Whaaaat? Seriously?

You never noticed when he's running on to a ball on the edge of the box for example and he tries to generate power with the side of his foot instead of driving through the ball with his laces? Really does grind my gears.

 

[Brwned]

@Brwned yes, I still don't particularly rate Cabaye, your point is? You're beyond tedious, Brwned, you know that.

So Cleverley is better than average, really? In the context of things; playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world etc, he's really better than average? Wow.

My point is that if people expressing perfectly legitimate opinions which oppose yours - e.g. Cabaye isn't average, evidenced by him establishing himself as a key player for one of the tournament's top teams - is somehow tedious to you, then you're probably in the wrong place.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You never noticed when he's running on to a ball on the edge of the box for example and he tries to generate power with the side of his foot instead of driving through the ball with his laces? Really does grind my gears.

He tends to try and pass the ball into the net, rather than hammer it. I generally wouldn't have a problem with this.

I was mainly confused by your mention of the word "instep". He doesn't smack many shots with his laces but he uses his instep all the time. If he doesn't use his instep or his laces, what's left? The outside of his foot? His heel?!

 

[Stack]

He doesn't have very very good technique, his technique is pretty average for a CM IMO, he doesn't for example take a ball on the turn whilst under pressure, will usually just pass the ball back to where it came from in that scenario.

Not that I am saying he has poor technique, I just don't believe his technique is very very good.

He always attempts to take the ball on the turn, its something he is very good at. Its how he shapes his body up as the ball comes to him. His first instinct is to try and receive with a positive touch. The problem is that he is too safe with it and makes a decision to play the safe pass when he could take a few more risks.

 

[Robbie Boy]

My point is that if people expressing perfectly legitimate opinions which oppose yours - e.g. Cabaye isn't average, evidenced by him establishing himself as a key player for one of the tournament's top teams - is somehow tedious to you, then you're probably in the wrong place.

Ah Brwned, always missing the point. What I said was people using the term 'Cleverley Bashing' to refer to anyone who doesn't rate Cleverley, is very tedious, in my opinion. Welbeck and Cleverley will always polarise opinions and people will just have to deal with it. You have a lovely habit of taking what you want from posts.

As for Cabaye, I still don't rate him as highly as some. For the record, I said last summer that if it was a choice between him and Fellaini, I would take Cabaye. I never said my opinion was fact or gospel so I don't get your point.

You have had some belters in the past with your opinions on players so I'm not sure what your point is at all actually.

 

[ZDwyr]

You never noticed when he's running on to a ball on the edge of the box for example and he tries to generate power with the side of his foot instead of driving through the ball with his laces? Really does grind my gears.

Now that you say this and I think about it you might be right! I can't remember an occasion where he has put his laces through the ball.

 

[Brwned]

Ah Brwned, always missing the point. What I said was people using the term 'Cleverley Bashing' to refer to anyone who doesn't rate Cleverley, is very tedious, in my opinion. Welbeck and Cleverley will always polarise opinions and people will just have to deal with it. You have a lovely habit of taking what you want from posts.

As for Cabaye, I still don't rate him as highly as some. For the record, I said last summer that if it was a choice between him and Fellaini, I would take Cabaye. I never said my opinion was fact or gospel so I don't get your point.

You have had some belters in the past with your opinions on players so I'm not sure what your point is at all actually.

I don't think anyone referred to anyone who doesn't rate Cleverley as a Cleverley basher. In fact I know they didn't because I'm the only one that talked about Cleverley bashing in this thread and it was unsurprisingly referring to the people who were bashing him, not people who were calling him average.

My point is that your definition of average is obviously very different to many others - including Deschamps seeing as he made him a key player - so getting wound up about that definition is a bit silly. It has nothing to do with underrating/overrating/mis-rating players in general, just about accepting that people don't see things in the same black-and-white fashion and that viewpoint can come across as intensely critical to the point where it's seen as "bashing".

 

[The-Natural]

That's such a bizarre criticism. He's a professional footballer FFS. I think he's capable of smacking a pass with his laces if he wants to. If he chooses to wrap his instep around the ball and put a bit of curl on the pass instead, that will be for a reason. Not because he's incapable of passing the ball using any other technique.

I know every fecker on here thinks they're some kind of unheralded coaching wunderkind but the overly technical way in which people seem to want to criticise managers and footballers these days gets right on my tits...

You've got me a bit wrong there- I'm not saying he's incapable of using laces at all, in fact he did it to good effect in recent games, What I was saying is that when he tries to do a curling pass with his instep he frequently overdoes it which causes the ball to loop and it ends up behind the recipient which takes pace out of the move. A flaw in his game that, IMO, should have been eradicated by now and perhaps detracts from the suggestion that he is 'technically very good' as some have said.

I certainly don't think i'm a coaching wonderkid it was just a simple observation in an attempt to contribute to the debate that another poster actually kindly agreed with. Maybe I didn't articulate it very well and if so apologies Pogue Mahone.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

You lot are really over analyzing him. He's a player who can be summed up in one sentence.

 

[ChrisG11]

He tends to try and pass the ball into the net, rather than hammer it. I generally wouldn't have a problem with this.

I was mainly confused by your mention of the word "instep". He doesn't smack many shots with his laces but he uses his instep all the time. If he doesn't use his instep or his laces, what's left? The outside of his foot? His heel?!

I would because he's fecking shit at it, he'd be better of trying to smash it as hard as he could and seeing what happens.

It's the way he uses his instep, which is what i should have put, i was struggling to think how to properly describe it without going into too much detail. Basically he doesn't use his instep to cut through the ball and generate backspin, especially on long passes. instead you get some lofted curve ball that looks quite awkward and not very aesthetically pleasing.

 

[Borys]

Great in the build up for the third goal. Amazing two of our scapegoats from last season are amongst our best players this pre season

Wait what? I can understand Young who is surprisingly good in wingback role, but Clev is one of the best players in the tour? No way.

He won maybe one challenge and it was an unnecessary challenge on a payer going nowhere, which went straight out of play.
He gets bullied all over the pitch. He shites out of 50/50 challenges and any time he attempts a pass, longer then 5 yards, he gives it away.

Why do people insist on bigging him up for doing the basics? He's a fecking Premier League footballer, the very least we expect are the basics.

He ran around a bit but didn't really do very much. Also don't try and kid me with this, 'what he did was subtle', bollocks. It was so subtle it was basically non existent.

The bolded part is why I’m not sure if he’s even a good squad option. I would rather give chance to someone who is good defensively and can do some positive going forward.

He was decent against Liverpool, maybe better than Herrera. His best game I think. They both need to improve.

I’m confused about the “squad player” definition. It seems to be a common opinion, that players not good enough to warrant a place in the first team become automatically squad players. It depends on the position of course, but I want a midfielder who is a squad player to be able to fill in a gap which means he does not have to be brilliant passer or runner with the ball, but he absolutely has to be reliable defensively. Is Cleverley that kind of player? I think he’s not. Carrick can be that player, or Fletcher if we sign someone better than him to partner Herrera.

He’s reliable and quite useful when we are in possession, it’s the defensive part of his game that I worry about.

He should stay this summer, but once we solve our midfield dilemma I think he will be the next one to go- simply because I don’t think it will be very difficult to find much better players with higher potential.

He took a great shot vs Madrid, so I take it as an improvement.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I don't think anyone referred to anyone who doesn't rate Cleverley as a Cleverley basher. In fact I know they didn't because I'm the only one that talked about Cleverley bashing in this thread and it was unsurprisingly referring to the people who were bashing him, not people who were calling him average.

My point is that your definition of average is obviously very different to many others - including Deschamps seeing as he made him a key player - so getting wound up about that definition is a bit silly. It has nothing to do with underrating/overrating/mis-rating players in general, just about accepting that people don't see things in the same black-and-white fashion and that viewpoint can come across as intensely critical to the point where it's seen as "bashing".

Not sure again what your point is. Your definition of 'good' / 'average' etc, would also vary wildly as opposed to how other people view the term. So a player I may say is good, you may say is average and visa versa. Who cares? Neither is right or wrong as it's an opinion.

I don't know why you brought up Cabaye as it's plain odd. Saying because a player is rated by a national team manager as a basis for an argument is ridiculous, for what it's worth. I don't see why it offends you if people 'bash' Cleverley? Again, who cares? I'm middle of the road when it comes to him and I find he's both under and overrated on here.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He wasn't shiting out of any 50:50 challenges against Liverpool. Went in hard and fair on a number of occasions. Once he even crunched Rooney too. I'll add to that to the long list of unfair criticisms.

On his defensive abilities in general, his best game of last season was against Arsenal away when he did a great job snuffing out Arsenal attacks before they got started. His main problem in the last couple of seasons has been a lack of consistency in his passing and a tendency to go into his shell when it's not happening for him. Clearly a confidence issue and it may turn out the he just doesn't have the mindset to thrive at the highest level. I do think this array of highly technical criticisms are missing the point a bit. He has had at least a few very good performances for Manchester United in his career. In none of them did he look like a footballer with some sort of fundamental deficiency in his skill-set. He blatantly can do everything we need him to do, it's just a question of whether he can do it consistently.

 

[Brwned]

Not sure again what your point is. Your definition of 'good' / 'average' etc, would also vary wildly as opposed to how other people view the term. So a player I may say is good, you may say is average and visa versa. Who cares? Neither is right or wrong as it's an opinion.

I don't know why you brought up Cabaye as it's plain odd. Saying because a player is rated by a national team manager as a basis for an argument is ridiculous, for what it's worth. I don't see why it offends you if people 'bash' Cleverley? Again, who cares? I'm middle of the road when it comes to him and I find he's both under and overrated on here.

You have a very low threshold and will group a huge amount of players under the heading of average is all. Cabaye and Cleverley are of course at very different stages in their career and at different levels yet in this very black-and-white definition there's nothing between them. It's not about being rated by their manager but about him proving himself very useful as a key cog in a strong national team. If that's "average" then Cleverley being "average" isn't necessarily a bad thing because obviously these "average" players can be very useful for strong teams in the biggest competitions. Much like Fletcher was "average" for a while.

It doesn't offend me at all that people bash him. I find it pretty amusing more than anything. If you read my first post you'll see I'm not remotely offended in any way, I just said it was very strange. That's all - not sure what the problem is here but I don't see this discussion going any further so I'll leave it there.

 

[Cassidy]

He always attempts to take the ball on the turn, its something he is very good at. Its how he shapes his body up as the ball comes to him. His first instinct is to try and receive with a positive touch. The problem is that he is too safe with it and makes a decision to play the safe pass when he could take a few more risks.

Under pressure? No not really picks the pass back to sender 9 times out of 10.

 

[SambaBoy]

I'd keep him as back-up aslong as he is happy to provide for that role. He clearly has some ability and he has shown it in the past, last season was a write off for him as he was shocking but he's not a bad player. He's a tidy passer but he seems scared to move with the ball. If you watch him from his time at Wigan and Watford, he would commit defenders and create space but at United, he's happy to sit down and simply pass it.

If he was fourth choice CM then I would be happy with that. He's young, came through the academy and can do a job when needed but in no way should he be starting every game as first choice unless he improves but he's no longer a youngster so can't see a massive improvement.

 

[kouroux]

You never noticed when he's running on to a ball on the edge of the box for example and he tries to generate power with the side of his foot instead of driving through the ball with his laces? Really does grind my gears.

Absolutely spot on, I've always hated that.