Tom Cleverley | 2014/15 Performances (on loan at Aston Villa)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bojan11 said:
You need to get a grip.

I rather the club get £8m for him rather than walking on a free.
Click to expand...
I am most definitely not the one who needs to get a grip here.

Good on you for offering a little more insight into why you feel the need to tell everyone he is shit and that you think the club should literally tell him to feck off. The club has just closed record breaking deals for Di Maria and sent a pretty big message buying well over 100m quid of players. Now I could understand if it was a 30 or walk, even a 20 or walk situation here but 8m is just such an insignificant amount of money. They could slap the logo on a few brand deals and make that kind of money.

It just doesn't make sense to be losing your rag this hard over an 8m or walk situation. Unless there is other factors at play here ie. an irrational hatred of the player and a compelling need to put him down every chance you get.

If he is indeed on 30k/pw and it comes down to a situation where United (I do have a strong feeling that this is the situation that he feels he's worth 100k and the club do not etc) feel that he's not worth the wages that he is demanding living to the responsibility that he's afforded in the squad then he'll go and we'll all give him our blessing in his new adventure but the club is not going to turn around and tell him to feck off or act like juvenile fans and push him out the door. The legacy of their academy players obviously means more to them than that as they have shown in the past to graduates. If they are changing that as well? Then fair play.
Kaos said:
I mean fair enough he hasn't met our expectations, but he wouldn't be the first nor last to not make it here. The vitriol here is pathetic.
Click to expand...
Agreed, it has graduated beyond fans getting together to discuss a player and his contribution to the club to some sort of dumping ground for nuclear insults and patting each other on the back for a player well insulted.
 
CrashDavis said:
He hasn't been up to it for awhile really. Think it's out of frustration that he's still on the books rather than hatred.
Click to expand...

I probably share that frustration, but reading some of the posts here there's more of a nasty personal angle to it. I mean telling him to feck off and leave his bird here to coax Vidal? :rolleyes:
 
Red Phoenix Rising said:
I am most definitely not the one who needs to get a grip here.

Good on you for offering a little more insight into why you feel the need to tell everyone he is shit and that you think the club should literally tell him to feck off. The club has just closed record breaking deals for Di Maria and sent a pretty big message buying well over 100m quid of players. Now I could understand if it was a 30 or walk, even a 20 or walk situation here but 8m is just such an insignificant amount of money. They could slap the logo on a few brand deals and make that kind of money.

It just doesn't make sense to be losing your rag this hard over an 8m or walk situation. Unless there is other factors at play here ie. an irrational hatred of the player and a compelling need to put him down every chance you get.

If he is indeed on 30k/pw and it comes down to a situation where United feel that he's not worth the wages that he is demanding living to the responsibility that he's afforded in the squad then he'll go and we'll all give him our blessing in his new adventure but the club is not going to turn around and tell him to feck off or act like juvenile fans and push him out the door. The legacy of their academy players obviously means more to them than that as they have shown in the past to graduates. If they are changing that as well? Then fair play.
Click to expand...

Where did I say he was shit?

The club have accepted a bid for him and LVG has said he can go. I think that's quite clear we pushing him out the door.

Get your head out of his arse. £8m is a big deal considering our spending this summer and lack of champions league football income.
 
Kaos said:
I probably share that frustration, but reading some of the posts here there's more of a nasty personal angle to it. I mean telling him to feck off and leave his bird here to coax Vidal? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yep, I get you on that count, but sure alot of it could be just humour or an attempt at it. Reminds me of "he wears a pineapple on his head" and all of that. But the plain truth of the matter is that he doesn't cut it and we're tired of watching the same old same old from him. It would be better for him, the club and the fans if he had a go somewhere else. That's the bottom line really because he's never shown me that he has what it takes to be at a top club.

Having said that, I'd love to be proven wrong but I genuinely don't think that will happen.
 
It's best for Tom to leave and find his form at another club. What is more interesting in whether we can actually get £8million for him. Hats off to Woody if he pulls it off.
 
CrashDavis said:
Having said that, I'd love to be proven wrong but I genuinely don't think that will happen.
Click to expand...
There would be no room to be proven right if the fans feel he has nothing more to give. It's not like they have the patience already to tolerate it. Part of the lure of football is watching someone turn it around. Even if in the end you have to say - "Well.. He didn't.. What a shame.."

There are genuine wasters in football that are doing it tough. Cleverley seems to be a pretty switched on and driven player in general. I agree with @Kaos that the flack he gets is just astounding.
 
Red Phoenix Rising said:
There would be no room to be proven right if the fans feel he has nothing more to give. It's not like they have the patience already to tolerate it. Part of the lure of football is watching someone turn it around. Even if in the end you have to say - "Well.. He didn't.. What a shame.."

There are genuine wasters in football that are doing it tough. Cleverley seems to be a pretty switched on and driven player in general. I agree with @Kaos that the flack he gets is just astounding.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll get off the fence just for you: he wont prove me wrong. I still wish him well at another club though.
 
Red Phoenix Rising said:
They exist for everybody. This isn't a hypothetical, the extent of the pressure is hypothetical. No fan in their right mind should be upset at a player for not wanting to uproot his entire family for a move.
Click to expand...
You're jumping the gun. I've probably defended Cleverley on this forum more than anyone. My point is we don't know there is pressure wrt his family moving. For all we know his girlfriend might love the idea of moving to Spain. There are a lot of Spanish, German, French, Italian, Brazilian, Argentinian etc footballers playing in lots of different leagues in Europe who had to uproot their families too but they did it for the sake of their careers. English footballers are far more inclined to stay in the comfort zone of the PL even if it means playing for a smaller relegation battling club than a CL/EL regular abroad.
 
Kaos said:
What is it about Tom Cleverley that brings out a nasty side of our fans?

I mean fair enough he hasn't met our expectations, but he wouldn't be the first nor last to not make it here. The vitriol here is pathetic.
Click to expand...

Well I'll explain what winds me up about him. He's turned into a right coward on the pitch and off it he's appeared to big himself up on occasion. Personally I can't hack the thought of spending my hard earned going to OT again to watch him play a leading role in yet another abysmal performance. Nowt nasty, wish him all the best, want him gone.
 
I think he's been poor now for a long time and the fact he's been out of form for so long and yet still pretty much been a first team regular is one of the examples of our poor planning and a reason we're in the mess we are now.

The reason I think he's been getting so much abuse recently though is his performance at Sunderland last week. He was absolutely terrible and I think that's clouding a lot of people's views on him. He's generally not as bad as he was last week albeit still not good enough for Utd.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
The reason I think he's been getting so much abuse recently though is his performance at Sunderland last week. He was absolutely terrible and I think that's clouding a lot of people's views on him. He's generally not as bad as he was last week albeit still not good enough for Utd.
Click to expand...
He wasn't even that bad against Sunderland. Evans against MK Dons was atrocious for example. If a below par performance has become the signal for the fans to say 'awful, deserves abuse'.. Then that is bizarre, to me anyway.
 
Red Phoenix Rising said:
He wasn't even that bad against Sunderland. Evans against MK Dons was atrocious for example. If a below par performance has become the signal for the fans to say 'awful, deserves abuse'.. Then that is bizarre, to me anyway.
Click to expand...
Your standards are staggeringly low.
 
He's been gettin abuse for months/years though. The Sunderland game is neither here nor there. I put the venom down to him being on the receiving end of all the frustration about our central midfield woes over the years.

The nasty tone of it all is really unnecessary and a contrast with certain foreign imports who might also be leaving this week. When you consider he cost the club nothing, has given us at least some good service and was reared a local, Mancheter United fan. His exit should be more dignified than most, yet he gets personal abuse. Not cool at all.
 
He's clearly gone backwards over the last 18 months, from England starter to not making the squad for the world cup.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's been gettin abuse for months/years though. It is strange but I put it down to him being on the receiving end of all the frustration about our central midfield woes over the years. The nasty tone of it all is really unnecessary and a contrast with certain foreign imports who might also be leaving this week. When you consider he cost the club nothing, has given us at least some good service and was reared a local, Mancheter United fan. His exit should be more dignified than most, yet he gets personal abuse. Weird.
Click to expand...

I think the initial reason he started drawing animosity was partly down to his TC23 branding. At a time when he had played a handful of first team games and his form had dipped it seemed like he had started to believe his own hype as he launched his own website and seemed to fancy himself as a bit if a Beckham.

I think when a player makes such shows of confidence, they are always going to put a magnifying glass right over their head. It just so happened that Tom then went on to be a very average player and rather than being labelled as a trier (like at least Fletcher was when he had similar animosity around 05-07) people were quick to take the piss and view him as a bit of a flash git who actually happens to be a bit shit.
 
Pexbo said:
I think the initial reason he started drawing animosity was partly down to his TC23 branding. At a time when he had played a handful of first team games and his form had dipped it seemed like he had started to believe his own hype as he launched his own website and seemed to fancy himself as a bit if a Beckham.
Click to expand...
I was unaware of any of this happening, but I am not sure what to make of it. It's not conjuring up seething daggers of hate and negativity.. That is for sure.
TC23 said:
“That wasn’t right, it was something I was doing for charity. It does annoy me a bit when people say I’m getting ahead of myself. I have my feet on the floor and I’ve always tried to stay grounded. I got a day off on Saturday and just went back to my mum’s in Bradford. Every morning I wake up and think how lucky I am to be playing for the team which all my boyhood heroes played for and for my country. I’m really proud of that.”
Click to expand...
Sounds like a pretty down to earth guy, still struggling to garner the urge to throw a big tantrum over it.
 
Red Phoenix Rising said:
I was unaware of any of this happening, but I am not sure what to make of it. It's not conjuring up seething daggers of hate and negativity.. That is for sure.
Sounds like a pretty down to earth guy, still struggling to garner the urge to throw a big tantrum over it.
Click to expand...

He's changed his tune on that:

Cleverley-Twitter3.png
 
I think its a genuine shame he hasnt made it here. He had such potential and was a different type of england player than we'd seen for a while.

Unfortunately after his injury, i think what ruined it for him was in his head. He lost his confidence and when he got his chance baack in the squad he didnt have the mental strength to dig himself out of a hole he created for himself.

He's had plenty of opportunities to show he can get back to where he was (or going) but he hasnt shown he'll do that and at a club like utd you have to be able to do that quickly. No young england player will get a better chance to prove themselves at a top 4 club in the premier league than he did here due to our midfield issues over the last 4 years.

Good luck to the lad. At least he tried, unlike others we could point out
 
This might sound harsh, but would he start for Villa or Hull? Villa fans seem to rate Westwood and Delph while Hull have got Livermore and Huddlestone. I'm not sure what system they play but where would he fit in?
 
Pexbo said:
He's changed his tune on that:

Cleverley-Twitter3.png
Click to expand...


Oh feck. Now I actually feel bad for him.

In honest though, decent player but not United quality.

It's a bit unfair though, because other players like Rooney/Mata et all has been hiding and are clearly afraid to try ambitious things as well, but since Tom's so short of genuine matchwinning ability and because of our CM woes he's being made the scapegoat.

In truth it's probably about time for him to leave though and get his career back on track. I still think he can turn out a good player for a team where the expectations are a bit lesser.
 
saivet said:
This might sound harsh, but would he start for Villa or Hull? Villa fans seem to rate Westwood and Delph while Hull have got Livermore and Huddlestone. I'm not sure what system they play but where would he fit in?
Click to expand...

Villa plays 4-3-3, Hull plays 3-4-2-1. Aston Villa has Richardson as one of the 3 midfielders, Cleverley is sure better than him. Hull has Tom Ince and Snodgrass as the "2's", I'm sure Tom is better than both
 
saivet said:
This might sound harsh, but would he start for Villa or Hull? Villa fans seem to rate Westwood and Delph while Hull have got Livermore and Huddlestone. I'm not sure what system they play but where would he fit in?
Click to expand...

I'd imagine he'd play further forward at Villa considering that seems to be what they lack a bit more.
 
saivet said:
This might sound harsh, but would he start for Villa or Hull? Villa fans seem to rate Westwood and Delph while Hull have got Livermore and Huddlestone. I'm not sure what system they play but where would he fit in?
Click to expand...

No i don't think he would be guaranteed to start every game for either of those sides, I suspect he would be used in a few different roles at either team but as he doesn't really excel in any position or aspect of his game he would find it tough going at the majority of premier league clubs especially on current form.
 
Pexbo said:
I think the initial reason he started drawing animosity was partly down to his TC23 branding. At a time when he had played a handful of first team games and his form had dipped it seemed like he had started to believe his own hype as he launched his own website and seemed to fancy himself as a bit if a Beckham.

I think when a player makes such shows of confidence, they are always going to put a magnifying glass right over their head. It just so happened that Tom then went on to be a very average player and rather than being labelled as a trier (like at least Fletcher was when he had similar animosity around 05-07) people were quick to take the piss and view him as a bit of a flash git who actually happens to be a bit shit.
Click to expand...

That's very true. The moment he launch his own website marketing his brand, after only handful of first team football, I knew he won't be a success here.
 
I wish him well but he's very average and not united class if we want to be winning trophies.
 
Lawman said:
I wish him well but he's very average and not united class if we want to be winning trophies.
Click to expand...
He might not be for a starter here but I'd rather Cleverley stay here as a squad player and Anderson/Fellaini left. At the same time I hope Cleverley kicks on and has a really good career elsewhere though.
 
LR7 said:
He might not be for a starter here but I'd rather Cleverley stay here as a squad player and Anderson/Fellaini left. At the same time I hope Cleverley kicks on and has a really good career elsewhere though.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat, but then I'm not insistent on keeping him as a squad player to the point where we should turn down a good price for him. If we're getting decent money, it makes sense to just sell.
 
I'm sure both Lambert and Bruce will be asked about him in the interviews following their game today, so we might know more soon.
 
LR7 said:
He might not be for a starter here but I'd rather Cleverley stay here as a squad player and Anderson/Fellaini left. At the same time I hope Cleverley kicks on and has a really good career elsewhere though.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have Fellaini stay and get a chance (not saying he will succeed) but unlike the other two mentioned they have had more than a fair chance and both come up way short time and again. Given the choice i'd replace the three of them with Khedira.
 
Tom will know half the games in the head. He has had a chance to show LVG but he's played it safe to the detriment of the team. Most of the abuse he gets will be from opposing fans and I think obviously a lot of people think they know how much he earns and don't think he deserves it. They might have a point. There was promise there but maybe it went to his head and ultimately, he stopped doing the things he seemed good at.
 
LR7 said:
He might not be for a starter here but I'd rather Cleverley stay here as a squad player and Anderson/Fellaini left. At the same time I hope Cleverley kicks on and has a really good career elsewhere though.
Click to expand...

I imagine we want rid of all three of them but no one wants anderson and fellaini is injured, Cleverley can leave for free next year so no option but to sell him, it would be stupid to give someone a new contract when they don't deserve it and the manager doesn't rate them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.