Tom Cleverley | 2014/15 Performances (on loan at Aston Villa)

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Y2A said:
What this proves ( as if it it wasn't the case earlier) that we need a bloody top class Cm even though we signed Herrera.

I am shocked LVG has to even assess that part for a month.
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Yeah, feck van Gaal for giving one of his players a proper chance to express himself in front of a new manager. Cleverely was bang on mediocre tonight and obviously van Gaal will take that into account going forward considering who he'll want to bring in and if he'll want to keep Clev in his plans. And how do we know that van Gaal isn't currently pursuing midfield targets anyway?

For me, Cleverley is a squad player. Nothing more, nothing less. As other posters have said, he's a type of player you need in the squad - you can't have a team full of world class players.
 
pseudo_canadian said:
Yeah, feck van Gaal for giving one of his players a proper chance to express himself in front of a new manager. Cleverely was bang on mediocre tonight and obviously van Gaal will take that into account going forward considering who he'll want to bring in and if he'll want to keep Clev in his plans. And how do we know that van Gaal isn't currently pursuing midfield targets anyway?

For me, Cleverley is a squad player. Nothing more, nothing less. As other posters have said, he's a type of player you need in the squad - you can't have a team full of world class players.
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I have little problem with Cleverley as back up. I understand giving players a chance and all but when its so obvious, you have to make that decision quickly. Now I am not saying "Sack LVG" or anything. I mean I literaly love the man but SAF did this too. Something in the water at the club that they don't see the blatant lack of quality in CM. Cleverley, Felliani, Anderson are player who you can give feck loads of time and confidence but they are never going to be United class. At best each one of them should be a 4th-5th choice CMs for United.

I may sound like a dick but these are a few harsh realities.
 
I don't get the whole 'we need him as a squad player cause we can't have all world class players' argument.

If you want to be the best then you need a squad of players all good enough to start, not a bunch of players who are average and just fill up the squad.

Cleverley needs to be gotten rid of. He'll never be good enough to start and therefore he's not good enough to play. Sell him to Sunderland. They like stocking up on absolute dross and like paying big for it.
 
The term "decent performance" is not allowed in a Cleverley thread, I see. He wasn't "terrible", it wasn't a "disgusting" performance, and he is not "Ipswich Town" level as some clueless poster suggested.

It was another decent performance by a decent squad player. That is all Cleverley is, a squad player. I'm sure we are looking for someone better to start in midfield for us. Calm down.
 
matherto said:
I don't get the whole 'we need him as a squad player cause we can't have all world class players' argument.

If you want to be the best then you need a squad of players all good enough to start, not a bunch of players who are average and just fill up the squad.

Cleverley needs to be gotten rid of. He'll never be good enough to start and therefore he's not good enough to play. Sell him to Sunderland. They like stocking up on absolute dross and like paying big for it.
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If you have squad of players all good enough to start then it'll cause problems with egos. Not that one should not try to make their squad as brilliant as possible. But it's not life and death. Plenty of title winning squads in history have had players not good enough to start who contribute lots to the team.
 
roseguy64 said:
If you have squad of players all good enough to start then it'll cause problems with egos. Not that one should not try to make their squad as brilliant as possible. But it's not life and death. Plenty of title winning squads in history have had players not good enough to start who contribute lots to the team.
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True but at some point those players tend to get shipped out if they don't step up like 2008/2009 Fletcher- think P Neville, Gibson. Cleverley must be in the last chance saloon in terms of making it here. If he is not going to show any more than he has to date then I would rather a younger player with greater potential be given that squad role. Bear in mind as well that we have less games this year due to no European football.
 
The problem is he doesn't really have any discernible qualities and putting him in the team at the expense of a potential new signing is weakening the team quite considerably.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
So it had nothing to do with the basic fact, that he was his usual utter shite then?

Van Gaal said yest at the presser that Cleverley would play the whole match - yet he took him off around 60 mins?!

The penny has dropped for Van Gaal regarding Cleverley. Every football fan - apart from a minority of United fans, rate him as a Championship player at best!

I wish folk would wake up & show some ambition. Players like Cleverley, Nani, Smalling, Jones, Fellaini & Chicarito to name but a few - will not get us back to top of the tree Domestically or in Europe ever.

This place is sometimes like Rawk ffs!
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What's your beef with Smalling? I've hardly ever seen him have a bad game at CB. Excellent again last night.

Also you're being v harsh on Jones. He's just off a very poor season but has shown plenty of evidence in the past that he has huge potential. Hence SAFs comments about him. Plenty of time for him to come good under thevright manager. Your post smacks of someone reading too many twitter comments as opposed to watching the games and appraising the players properly.

Although your probably spot on re Ando, Cleverly, Fellaini. Simply not up to it
 
pseudo_canadian said:
Yeah, feck van Gaal for giving one of his players a proper chance to express himself in front of a new manager. Cleverely was bang on mediocre tonight and obviously van Gaal will take that into account going forward considering who he'll want to bring in and if he'll want to keep Clev in his plans. And how do we know that van Gaal isn't currently pursuing midfield targets anyway?

For me, Cleverley is a squad player. Nothing more, nothing less. As other posters have said, he's a type of player you need in the squad - you can't have a team full of world class players.
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We need a team full of United class players though..

Cleverley aint United class & if Everton want him - we should snap their hand off!
 
Don't hate the lad, but I've hated his performances ever since late 2012-13 season. Not good enough plain and simple. Started off well, then tanked and has not shown a glimmer of returning to 1/16th of the form he used to be on. If anything, it's been going from bad to worse.

Decentish player on his own, but not the type that should be playing a minute in a match that matters for United. Definitely a liability, but not a horrible player by any means. Exactly why he should be sold. He can be more than a bench warmer at a mid table club and could even blossom into a good player.
 
SteveW said:
What's your beef with Smalling? I've hardly ever seen him have a bad game at CB. Excellent again last night.

Also you're being v harsh on Jones. He's just off a very poor season but has shown plenty of evidence in the past that he has huge potential. Hence SAFs comments about him. Plenty of time for him to come good under thevright manager. Your post smacks of someone reading too many twitter comments as opposed to watching the games and appraising the players properly.

Although your probably spot on re Ando, Cleverly, Fellaini. Simply not up to it
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Glad we agree on something then ;)

SteveW said:
Hence SAFs comments about him
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Fergie said alot of things that didnt pan out the way he thought - especially saying Cleverley was the new Scholes. Even more startling are the comparison's Sir Bobby made with Jones & Duncan Edwards..
 
Matador8 said:
That's the trouble with Cleverley, fans expect him to rip up trees in a game. Be content for him to do all the dirty work, a little like Carrick.
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He's not got the balls or the quality to do the dirty work though.

The ones who do it all have something about them. Carricks positioning and intelligence (passing too), Keane had an unstoppable drive, etc.

Cleverley has feck all. His entire skillset is 5/10 at best with certain aspects worse than that. People say we need squad players but he's not even good enough for that. Get rid.
 
RustyS said:
The term "decent performance" is not allowed in a Cleverley thread, I see. He wasn't "terrible", it wasn't a "disgusting" performance, and he is not "Ipswich Town" level as some clueless poster suggested.

It was another decent performance by a decent squad player. That is all Cleverley is, a squad player. I'm sure we are looking for someone better to start in midfield for us. Calm down.
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Just stay out of their way, God forbid anyone should say anything as positive as "he's a good squad player" or this mob will descend. As you say, calm down. LVG knows what he is doing and if he shifts Cleverly so be it.
 
Couple of points.

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that LVG didn't commit to playing Clev for 90 mins. I am openly critical of him, but it seems some are twisting the manager's words to suit an agenda here. If i'm not mistaken, i'm sure he said 'everyone will play no more than 45 mins, except Cleverley and Blackett' - not that they would necessarily play 90.

As for Anderson, he most definitely did have a great run of form the last time we won the league. He was slowly playing his way into the team, and was then outstanding at Stamford Bridge in that game that Nani fecked up in, and then stayed in the side I think. I remember some highlight moments in games that followed, like him leaving about 3 players for dead and then playing a nice through pass to Hernandez for him to score against either QPR or Villa think at OT, until the game he was inevitably injured in away at Reading, where he scored a fantastic goal. That game was in December 2012 I believe. I'm sure if people looked back at all the match/rating threads for that game and the ones leading up to it, they would show how well Anderson was playing.
 
 
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Red Hand Devil said:
We need a team full of United class players though..

Cleverley aint United class & if Everton want him - we should snap their hand off!
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Problem is, at least half of all the players on our books aren't even United bench quality.

I would like to see him shipped off. I think someone would actually pay a modest fee for him, which is more than can be said for many of the players we need to get rid of.
 
Can I just point out that the position he was played in was to protect the back 4 and recycle the ball. Whilst he was on the pitch we didn't concede. I think LVG brought in Kagawa and Nani, who are not natural midfielders, to see whether Cleverley could control a game on his own. He failed in that respect.
 
Would never expect Cleverley to control a game. Showed no signs of being capable of that when he was on form. A team playing well and he'll do his part. Otherwise he'll just be average depending on the opposition level.
 
Devil may care said:
:lol: That's a bit harsh, I thought the general consensus was that is short pass and move game in the final third was his best attribute? I can't see him ever being a proper DM or deep lying playmaker, he just doesn't have the tools.
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Safe passing is his best part. Not creative passing, breaking down tight defences, not dribbling or tight control like Ander.

Just picking a high percentage pass that even when he underhits it, will still get to the player.

He does try to win the ball and he's okay at it. I think we'd lose less with Cleverley covering Carrick than if he was covering Ander.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Problem is, at least half of all the players on our books aren't even United bench quality.

I would like to see him shipped off. I think someone would actually pay a modest fee for him, which is more than can be said for many of the players we need to get rid of.
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Opposition teams arent scared of us anymore & its pretty obvious the reasons behind that.

I'm sick of hearing opposition players & managers saying OT has lost its fear-factor & that they fancy their chances goin there - not to mention us playing them at their manner..

We used to have teams beaten in the tunnel because of the players we had lined out - not anymore though!
 
Ekeke said:
Safe passing is his best part. Not creative passing, breaking down tight defences, not dribbling or tight control like Ander.

Just picking a high percentage pass that even when he underhits it, will still get to the player.

He does try to win the ball and he's okay at it. I think we'd lose less with Cleverley covering Carrick than if he was covering Ander.
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Can't argue with that. But having a safe passer around as a squad option is fine by me - if Cleverley can improve further tactically, whilst remaining a safe player, one who doesn't give the ball away needlessly - he can do a decent job for us against many teams. The fact that he doesn't impose himself on games is a problem - for him. Because it means he'll never become a top class player. But it isn't really a problem for us if our intention is to keep him on as part of the rotation - as someone you throw on to ride out a match, or someone you use against lighter opposition.
 
Heard Paddy Crerand say that he thinks he's improved from last season. I know we're only two matches into pre season but I just can't see in what way he has improved. He's definitely playing for his future at the club without a doubt.
 
He also needs to take more authority on the ball. Every time the ball is played to him he instantly tries to play it first time to someone. Often panics in fact. The safe pass isn't the best pass. Herrera in 2 games has shown more creativity but he's being assertive in possession too. Playing it and demanding it back, dictating the game.
 
Acole9 said:
Heard Paddy Crerand say that he thinks he's improved from last season. I know we're only two matches into pre season but I just can't see in what way he has improved. He's definitely playing for his future at the club without a doubt.
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He knocked a couple of decent cross-field passes that I wouldn't have expected of him.
 
I didn't see the game last night. The thing with Cleverley now, as I see it, is that he has no positive effect on a game, even as a squad player. If someone asked me when he last had a good game, or changed a game, I honestly couldn't recall. He vanishes totally in matches, or doesn't seem to want the ball and things just pass him by. It might be down to confidence, but that was definitely a problem last season as well and possibly part of the season before. We had the whole 'I'm being made a scapegoat' thing last season and obvious attempts by the club to make him feel better about himself and now it looks like LVG is trying to do the same, by giving him the captains armband.

At some point someone somewhere is going to have to weigh up whether Cleverley is integral to the squad, or whether it might be better for everyone involved if he moved on and tried to ply his trade elsewhere. He's certainly not good enough for us to be setting up the team in a way that can fit him in, 4-3-3 etc.
 
I just watched the game although tbh I wasn't really focusing on it much but I thought he did alright but did make some mistakes. I think half the problem with these discussions is that the loudest opinions are often too far over to one side or the other. Clev is clearly a PL player, clearly a top 10 in the league player, I just think his level as a starter anyway is for a team looking to get 8-5 not top four.

I think though that some are overly generous and the comparisons with Fletch aren't fair given that by this age Fletch, regardless of the level of pos/neg bias had towards him, was putting in at least a handful of top performances a season and was serving an important role which was to help make up for the legs of Scholes/Keane but also help balance the team with Ronaldo taking an increasingly smaller defensive role.

It's similar to Henderson, he wouldn't be a starter at one of the big clubs imo because none of them have a player like Gerrard in the middle who is too good to drop but needs protection. Henderson can give him that so whilst he might not be a particularly good player he can serve an important role in the first team. Similar to Milner as well. He helps to balance the team, Park is another example.

With Clev though when you look at his qualities for me I just don't see how he would be a first teamer in an appropriately strong midfield based on his ability nor in a role where he facilitated others playing to their best. But I do think he's good enough as a squad player but I just think at his age and with the ability he has to be an important player elsewhere he should look to move on if that is his role.

That said I think he is better than he is currently showing and some of it seems to be a mentality thing rather than a lack of technique, because he's got a good touch, a decent range and decent mobility but he just doesn't take enough risks and is far too cautious. His other weaknesses are for me a lack of tactical movement, for me whilst he's a willing runner I often think he puts himself in poor areas and he could be a bit stronger. Both of these he can work on through training, the first point though is hard to overcome I'd imagine.
 
Stobzilla said:
And do you reckon your average football fan talks as much sense and knows more than people like Eric Harrison, Fabio Cappello, Roy Hodgson, Sir Alex Ferguson and seemingly Louis Van Gaal ?

He made a couple of errors today, that much is true, he wasn't awful and he has played less than 100 competitive games for us, give LVG 6 months with him and we can see from there. Until then, just get behind him.
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this is a poor argument. 1) we're on a forum and discussing cleverley 2) in the public sphere it's ridiculous to criticize your players so those who have worked with Tom/coach him would usually praise him. It's a way to build confidence.

3) learn to post in context. RHD talked about pundits/ex players and some managers. He didn mention anything about the aformentioned ones.

4) it's not about knowing more but being able to articulate your point well on a player in this thread.
5) why do you assume Cleverley will get 6 months under LVG?
6) Why are you trying to tell him how to support Cleverley?
 
Just very, very ordinary against Roma, although the conditions didn't help. When he's given an opportunity from the manager and a confidence boost with the captaincy, he just isn't seizing his chance at all and I don't think he has the capacity or mentality too.

I'm very much on the fence over whether we should keep him or move him on. I initially thought van Gaal's philosophy would bring the best out of him, which still might be the case, but it would only serve to proceed his ability. He is very ordinary and doesn't have much capacity for further improvement - 2011/12 was probably his limit.

The managers hand might be forced though. If our search for a new midfielder doesn't intensify or there is nothing in the Vidal rumours, we essentially have just four central midfielders for the start of the season and two - including Cleverley - are average, one isn't a conventional midfielder and one is an unknown quantity in the Premier League.
 
Why do people expect Cleverley to play a more expressive, attacking, role when he's playing alongside Herrera or Kagawa? That doesn't make sense to me at all. If Cleverley played more openly in a central midfield pairing with Herrera or Kagawa, we'd be frequently exposed as was the case when we had Kagawa and Lingard.

Now, if Cleverley played alongside more of a holding player like Carrick or Fletcher (even a new signing like Schneiderlin or Gonalons) under van Gaal and wasn't expressive and attacking in his freer role, then there would be a basis for criticism. However, at this point, I don't see a basis for criticising him for his attacking performance when he's playing alongside Herrera or Kagawa. What he should be criticised for is not keeping the ball well (1st half performance) and a poor defensive performance (again a part of his 1st half performance). Plus, the fact that he looks tired after the 70th minute is worrisome as he's frequently playing as a central midfielder.
 
He just hasn't looked good in the pre-season so far - an anonymous chaser who's been left for dead a couple of times. There's no doubt that he has somewhere within him the ability to be a decent player - that 3 1/2 games at the start of the 11-12 season showed that (although I suspect that a lot of that was down to Anderson who was in the form of his life). Unfortunately, as he's got older, he's got more and more negative in his passing and general decision making. Maybe van Gaal can get him inspired but I don't really see it happening.
 
I can predict what he will do in 9 out of 10 situations. It's much more difficult to create space with him in the team than Herrera.
 
I'm not his biggest fan, but I thought he did well in that half. Not as good as Fletcher obviously, but overall a good substitution.
 
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