Didn't do himself many favours. Who cares? 
Tom Cleverley | 2014/15 Performances (on loan at Aston Villa)
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Well, when we loaned him to Wigan he looked a real prospect at the end of that season. We need to write off last season anyway. Lets get behind the lad and see if he can regain his confidence.
That was about 4 years ago and McCarthy outshone him during that spell. Anderson and Nani looked good 4 years ago.
All due respect LW, but big deal - that was years ago. Sure Anderson looked the business ("..and he shittttts on Fa-bre----gas...") in his debut season with us in 2007/08 & look how thats turned out?!
Ask your level-headed non-United mates what they think of our squad & most of them will say we're a bunch of deluded mugs having him, Anderson & Nani still at the club - not to mention Smalling & Jones, to name but a few also!
Clevs was way ahead of McCarthy back then. McCarthy has built on his promise though, alas with Everton. As for Anderson and Nani, they will always look good a few games a season but between injuries and lack of motivation they will never go anywhere.
This is the worst thing a football supporter can do and I'm not proud of it but I sort of... want cleverly not to do well.
I've seen enough of him and any good performances I'm afraid will just create an illusion to us that he's good enough or something. I want Van Gaal to see he's not. Maybe it's just the anger of last season in me that's doing all of this.
I've seen enough of him and any good performances I'm afraid will just create an illusion to us that he's good enough or something. I want Van Gaal to see he's not. Maybe it's just the anger of last season in me that's doing all of this.
The last time we won the league (2012-2013), Anderson played almost half the games and was stunning during the early period of the campaign.
I am not a fan of Nani or Smalling, but Jones looks like he can have a future at the club.
Well... It's not happening for him, is it?
Apart from his skill, one thing that worries me, is his stamina. Even if he is playing okay-ish, he looks completely done at 55-60 minutes. That's not normal. As for other things, i think he is somewhat over-confident in a situations where he needs to be cautions, like when he is last man in front of back three. He lost the ball allowing dangerous counters quite a lot today. And that was due to him trying some new, complex stuff, while more simple options were available. But when he is in the final 3-rd he is on the contrary lacking confidence. He is way too shy and always looking for a simpler, more safe solution. It's completely upside-down. Although a question remains whether he is actually capable of something sublime, some of the episodes from like 12-13 show that he is, but that was way down the line now.
Apart from his skill, one thing that worries me, is his stamina. Even if he is playing okay-ish, he looks completely done at 55-60 minutes. That's not normal. As for other things, i think he is somewhat over-confident in a situations where he needs to be cautions, like when he is last man in front of back three. He lost the ball allowing dangerous counters quite a lot today. And that was due to him trying some new, complex stuff, while more simple options were available. But when he is in the final 3-rd he is on the contrary lacking confidence. He is way too shy and always looking for a simpler, more safe solution. It's completely upside-down. Although a question remains whether he is actually capable of something sublime, some of the episodes from like 12-13 show that he is, but that was way down the line now.
Which games were those exactly?
And while he did have 17 apps sure, it actually was only 825 minutes, which translates into 9 full matches so to speak. and only 9 times out of those 17 he played more than or 45 minutes. And mostly in the second half of the season(6 times against only 3 over 45' matches in first 18 fixtures).
Fella, you are confusing his early form from 11-12(Arsenal trashing and so on) with 12-13. His first 5 games in 11-12 were basically the only impressive spell he had for United. Over the last God knows how long.
I must have been on the "brown acid" then, because i dont remember any of that - far from it!
Its about time Jones started showing it then, because i havent seen any evidence of him being good enough to help United to clean up at home & abroad..
What?
I can't remember that bit too.
Carrick and RVP were stunning in the first half. RVP faded a bit in the second and our defence improved.
90 + posts in a Cleverley thread when he did good in poor conditions.
Nothing in the Nani and Hernandez threads when they offered nothing in said conditions.
Nothing in the Nani and Hernandez threads when they offered nothing in said conditions.
He's thinking of 11-12, where Ando was not at all stunning, he was rather decent for the first 5 games then climbed back into his wheelbarrow and hibernated for the rest of the season.
Look, he's a squad player lets not beat around the bush. he isn't starter material, but he does have a place here.
in my book anderson and fletcher/fellaini are more suited to being sold off ahead of clevs, and im not even a massive fan of our tom
in my book anderson and fletcher/fellaini are more suited to being sold off ahead of clevs, and im not even a massive fan of our tom
What?
Livewire's off watching the season reviews since the 2007/08 season, to prove us all wrong & rub our faces in it..
I'm bricking it lads
I think the spotlight is on Clev simply because he was picked as captain by LVG and plays in a position we're absolutely desperate for more signings in. He didn't do good at all, he was fecking awful.
Cleaning boots & playing with the academy - where he'd get showed up there aswell..
He wasn't awful by any stretch but carry on.
It was the season before that Livewire is thinking of iirc. That season where we started brilliantly with Cleverley and Anderson dovetailing in midfield.
I'm not going to carry on with anything, as I do want Cleverly to do well, but I thought that he was given a chance to impress and failed badly tonight. What did he do right in your opinion?
Hes simply not good enough to start for Manchester United.
The spotlight will always be on sub-average players playing for United, & as much as we think everyone else are abu's - football folk know a United-quality player when they see one..
Spread play well, was involved in the build ups for goals 1 and 3 I believe, couple of good tackles and interceptions as well.
He wasn't great, I am not saying that but given the conditions and circumstances with our lineup I think all things considered he did good.
What is your job in football exactly ?
It's clear there will never be a general agreement regarding him but I think if we tried to play him in the PL as essentially the holding CM like tonight we'd be in a shitload of trouble. If he is kept then surely his best role would be as Herrera's back-up.
How is he supposed to be good when even United fans call for his head? Think about it.
Cleverley is a decent player. I don't understand why people rave on about him so much. I'm pretty sure it's just another one of those "fad" things. He keeps possession and makes some good tackles. He's not a goalscorer.
Cleverley is a decent player. I don't understand why people rave on about him so much. I'm pretty sure it's just another one of those "fad" things. He keeps possession and makes some good tackles. He's not a goalscorer.
Championship at best? Give over. The same was said about Gibson and Fletcher countless times, seen it all before. He'll be a decent mid-table prem player when he moves on, just like Gibson. The criticism he gets is over the top, we do need better CM's in the first XI but he's fine for now as a rotation option vs the weaker sides. His performance is being rewritten in here, he really wasn't even that bad.
The thing is he's actually learning some defending. Its the one thing thats improved with him over the last 18 months instead of regressing. So maybe after another half a season learning he'll be able to play the deepest role in midfield. Maybe.
Having him as Herrera's backup is like having Djemba Djemba as Roy Keane's backup
Thats a pretty lame retort man!
You dont need to have a job in football to understand the game & a players worth / qualities.
I think many people in football should have the same passion for the game that most of us all have. The normal football fan on the street talks more sense than many managers & pundits do - not to mention players, with a large percentage of them not even watchers of the game..
He was pretty poor today. Was average to begin with and made 3/4 crucial errors.
But the criticism he gets goes over the top at times. Certainly won't sell him right now unless we are bringing in 2 starter quality CM's more.
But the criticism he gets goes over the top at times. Certainly won't sell him right now unless we are bringing in 2 starter quality CM's more.
And do you reckon your average football fan talks as much sense and knows more than people like Eric Harrison, Fabio Cappello, Roy Hodgson, Sir Alex Ferguson and seemingly Louis Van Gaal ?
He made a couple of errors today, that much is true, he wasn't awful and he has played less than 100 competitive games for us, give LVG 6 months with him and we can see from there. Until then, just get behind him.
It's a mix of, doesn't fit the circle jerk narrative and those two are being sold anyway so what's the point.
He might be the reason we might push for a move for Vidal now, so we should be grateful really
Wishful thinking of course..
Wishful thinking of course..
That's all well and good, most will happily get behind him I'm sure. However if he's somehow the reason that we don't sign another central midfielder well then people are going to be rightly pissed off. SAF failed to address it for long enough because of his bizarre faith in Anderson and Hargreaves who was never going to return. A lot of posters including myself are afraid of a similar trend happening all over again.
Herrera or not, if we go into the new season with our current midfield, we're in serious trouble. Cleverly's performance tonight doesn't even matter, he's not been good enough for a drastically long time now.
I didnt get a chance to see the last game, but my general opinion over last season was that he was a waste of space last season, but that that whole season was a write-off for him, because as an overall limited ability player who in my opinion suited what we should be wanting to do heavily (ie fast recycled pass and move feeding the more talented wingers and forwards) he was very clearly under instruction from Moyes not to play risky balls and not move too far forward, all of which was basically taking a limited player who had lots of average abilities and one clear strength, dynamic pass and move, and then telling him to ignore the one thing he was good at, and play the rest of his average game, there is no suprise at all that he not only didnt excel, but stank.
He well never be world class, his ceiling IMO if all goes well is as a decent sub overall, and as a dynamic player suiting specific types of games, presuming he gets the chance and develops well, but I think a lot of people made assesments out of context and utterly wrote him off without looking at context at all
He well never be world class, his ceiling IMO if all goes well is as a decent sub overall, and as a dynamic player suiting specific types of games, presuming he gets the chance and develops well, but I think a lot of people made assesments out of context and utterly wrote him off without looking at context at all
What this proves ( as if it it wasn't the case earlier) that we need a bloody top class Cm even though we signed Herrera.
I am shocked LVG has to even assess that part for a month.
I am shocked LVG has to even assess that part for a month.
His biggest problem is that he doesn't have an outstanding quality to fall back on when things aren't going well for him.
That's a bit harsh, I thought the general consensus was that is short pass and move game in the final third was his best attribute? I can't see him ever being a proper DM or deep lying playmaker, he just doesn't have the tools.- Status