Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Extremely determined in impressing and proving to supporters, he's worthy of becoming new pillar of midfield. In time, he should fully establish himself in the league.

Yesterday, against Uruguay he not only showed coolness in passing but also some really solid movement.

With Clev and Powell, it's looking quite good for the future.
 
It's a rare player who can constantly move into space and keep the ball under pressure. You can tell his thinking is very quick, and in football you're often taking advantage of a fraction of a second's head start on a run, over the course of a game it makes a huge difference to be able to play without having to take a touch or two every time.

Especially with two playmakers who like to sit deep in Carrick and Scholes, I can see Cleverley being a fine pivot, he can find the gaps between the first line of defense and then play it back out to Scholes and Carrick as the defense sags back so they can advance and then redistribute.
 
Well the good thing if Clev stays fit is that whilst Carrick is comfortable sitting he's also capable of getting forward better then he's credited for and having a partner who is able to sit at times as Clev has shown in the olympics will be good, additionally the extra stability Carrick brings will help clev.
 
Isn't it great that Cleverley gets another season of playing and training with Scholes? What an education he will have had by the time he's into his stride.
 
#07 said:
In fairness I think the point being made wasn't that the saying isn't cliche but that in Cleverleys case the words neat and tidy describe more than just dawdling. Cleverley can hit great long passes he made Sturridge's assist against UAE doing so, in fact had he not put all his weight on his ankle against Everton doing so we might not have lost him at a crucial time last season. The point is, and I'm sure you agree, he has very good decision making. If there's nothing on Cleverley doesn't Hollywood pass it into the advertising boards he keeps it short and simple.

In many ways Cleverley's not an exceptional player. He's technically very good but certainly not Thiago Alcantara good, for example. However what makes him so valuable is his ability to do the right thing at the right time.
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Yes I have praised his partnership with Allen after all of the Team GB games, both are pretty much the accurate embodiment of the term in it's best sense. I was simply saying it has become a tired generalization.

To me Cleverley has a bit of Fletcher about him in that he's a Jack of all trades and master of none, although I'd say he's more consistently good on the ball, however lacks the all energy hustle of Fletcher.
 
Devil may care said:
Yes I have praised his partnership with Allen after all of the Team GB games, both are pretty much the accurate embodiment of the term in it's best sense. I was simply saying it has become a tired generalization.

To me Cleverley has a bit of Fletcher about him in that he's a Jack of all trades and master of none, although I'd say he's more consistently good on the ball, however lacks the all energy hustle of Fletcher.
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To be fair, how many "masters" do we have? Ignoring Giggs and Scholes, Vidic and Ferdinand are at defending and Nani at dribbling. Rooney is probably very good at most things rather than one of the best in the world at one. The likes of Valencia, Carrick etc aren't exceptional at any one thing.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
To be fair, how many "masters" do we have? Ignoring Giggs and Scholes, Vidic and Ferdinand are at defending and Nani at dribbling. Rooney is probably very good at most things rather than one of the best in the world at one. The likes of Valencia, Carrick etc aren't exceptional at any one thing.
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Rooney is a very good finisher. Valencia is very fast. Carrick is very composed.
 
scholesy legend said:
Rooney is a very good finisher. Valencia is very fast. Carrick is very composed.
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Indeed. But none of them, I think, is "master" of one thing like Scholes is of passing, for example. I'm guessing by master we mean up there with the best in the world. Like Iniesta's ball control. Or Rio's reading of the game. Or Vidic at heading/tackling.

I wouldn't consider speed to be honest. Otherwise Walcott is a master of something which wouldn't really sit well with me. Valencia is very good at traditional wing play, not just being quick.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Indeed. But none of them, I think, is "master" of one thing like Scholes is of passing, for example. I'm guessing by master we mean up there with the best in the world. Like Iniesta's ball control. Or Rio's reading of the game. Or Vidic at heading/tackling.

I wouldn't consider speed to be honest. Otherwise Walcott is a master of something which wouldn't really sit well with me. Valencia is very good at traditional wing play, not just being quick.
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Valencia is a master at beating his man and putting a cross in. There's no denying that!
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Indeed. But none of them, I think, is "master" of one thing like Scholes is of passing, for example. I'm guessing by master we mean up there with the best in the world. Like Iniesta's ball control. Or Rio's reading of the game. Or Vidic at heading/tackling.

I wouldn't consider speed to be honest. Otherwise Walcott is a master of something which wouldn't really sit well with me. Valencia is very good at traditional wing play, not just being quick.
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"Jack of all trade, master of none" usually refer to an advantage one has. Not necassarily a talent that is among the very best in the world.
 
scholesy legend said:
"Jack of all trade, master of none" usually refer to an advantage one has. Not necassarily a talent that is among the very best in the world.
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That's the opposite of what it means. "Jack of all trades, master of none" refers to someone who is good at everything/a lot of things but not exceptional at any one. I do think a being a "master" means being incredible at something. Like Scholes would be a master at passing.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
That's the opposite of what it means. "Jack of all trades, master of none" refers to someone who is good at everything/a lot of things but not exceptional at any one. I do think a being a "master" means being incredible at something. Like Scholes would be a master at passing.
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I know. I was refering to the "master" part.

It doesnt really mean exceptional or in your words; the very best in the world. It simply means you are good at something.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
To be fair, how many "masters" do we have? Ignoring Giggs and Scholes, Vidic and Ferdinand are at defending and Nani at dribbling. Rooney is probably very good at most things rather than one of the best in the world at one. The likes of Valencia, Carrick etc aren't exceptional at any one thing.
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Well it's a saying and not one I've usually seen taken so literally, however in that case I think Carrick would be considered as one of the best positional defensive CM's in Europe, and Valencia is probably the the best direct pure winger in the game and I'd bet if we put him up for sale the other European giants would be interested.

I am not knocking Cleverley with the saying btw.
 
Devil may care said:
Well it's a saying and not one I've usually seen taken so literally, however in that case I think Carrick would be considered as one of the best positional defensive CM's in Europe, and Valencia is probably the the best direct pure winger in the game and I'd bet if we put him up for sale the other European giants would be interested.

I am not knocking Cleverley with the saying btw.
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since when do barca and madrid use pure wingers? They would be interested in valencia as a squad player, not a first XI mainstay.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
since when do barca and madrid use pure wingers? They would be interested in valencia as a squad player, not a first XI mainstay.
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Di Maria looks like a pure winger to me and he's been a regular for Real Madrid. Valencia wouldn't be a first-team player for Barcelona but there are probably about three players in the world who'd go straight into their first team if signed and not a single one of them is an attacking player or a midfielder.
 
Sarni said:
Di Maria looks like a pure winger to me and he's been a regular for Real Madrid. Valencia wouldn't be a first-team player for Barcelona but there are probably about three players in the world who'd go straight into their first team if signed and not a single one of them is an attacking player or a midfielder.
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nah, di maria is one of those wide attacking mid's IMO. cuts in almost all the time, being played on the right or JM sometimes plays him behind the striker.

he's not tony v, chalk on the boots lad.
 
He does the basics very well, doesn't overcomplicate the game and works hard. Don't underestimate him, he's not flashy but he has got a good Football brain. For me he is a good squad player at the minimum, how far he goes is up to him. Scholes, Cleverley, Kagawa and Welbeck will be great to watch with short, sharp interplay.

I'm still not 100% sold on Cleverley in a midfield two, in a three I think he can really do a great job for us. When I see Cleverley, I think of Fletcher. Fletcher isn't a particular flashy player but he has great heart, energy and is no slouch with the ball, is good in the air and solid in the tackle. He's an all round solid player, Cleverley is similar but less defensively gifted and more offensively inclined. I don't think Cleverley is the world class Midfielder everyone pines for but he does bring a lot to an area we are weak in and he has potential.
 
Cleverley's much better on the ball than Fletch and a much better passer. He can actually beat a man from time to time too.

Fletch looked a lovely creative passer at academy level but it never really happened for the first team.
 
I don't think I've seen enough of Cleverley to say that outright, he seems to be better on the ball but the sample against truly competitive teams is limited. His short passing and movement is better undoutebly, his creativity and longer range passing I haven't seen enough of yet.
 
I think he's miles more comfortable on the ball than Fletcher and about half a second quicker at deciding what he wants to do with it, which makes a pretty huge difference in itself even if their passing range is comparable. I think Cleverley's the better passer anyway and just a much better technical footballer, but he does still have to prove it by avoiding injury for more than a few minutes at some point.

I've not really rated Fletcher's ability on the ball as one of his strengths for a long time. He's always been about graft. He looked like he had a lot more drive and ability in him when he was younger but for some reason it's never really found it's way into his game as he's matured. Or rather he takes too long to read what's going on around him to really make it effective.

Cleverley can take the ball in a tight space because he's already aware who's around him and can flick a pass straight back out or make the room for himself in a split second. Fletcher tends to need the space to be there already when he picks the ball up, and then has to look up before he decides what to do.
 
As I said Cleverley is much offensively inclined than Fletcher and although not the silkiest Fletcher was more than able on the ball. The point was people underestimate the importance of the basics, there's nothing striking about the way a Fletcher or a Gary Neville used to play but they had very good careers. Cleverley can do very well for himself.
 
Another good performance. His ability to pass in tight situations is brilliant.
 
Cleverlys a very good young player. He's been unlucky not to score baring the pen. For me he's obviously better offensively and hopefully he can stay fit.
 
GB's best midfielder today by far. He looks more intelligent than Ramsey to me. Which is kind of strange cause I've always thought that was Ramsey's biggest weapon.
 
Tomuś said:
GB's best midfielder today by far. He looks more intelligent than Ramsey to me. Which is kind of strange cause I always thought that was Ramsey's biggest weapon.
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You shouldn't be that surprised because Cleverlys talked about how he watches players closely and try's to work bits and pieces into his own game. The great thing is we've been talking about him for 2/3 years + and now we're seeing the start (hopefully) of a top player for United. Intelligence might be Ramsey's biggest weapon but I think Cleverlys a better player personally.
 
Striker10 said:
You shouldn't be that surprised because Cleverlys talked about how he watches players closely and try's to work bits and pieces into his own game. The great thing is we've been talking about him for 2/3 years + and now we're seeing the start (hopefully) of a top player for United. Intelligence might be Ramsey's biggest weapon but I think Cleverlys a better player personally.
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Never have I questioned Cleverley's footballing brain. It's Ramsey's inferiority in that aspect what surprised me.
 
He must've really improved in the second half. I fell asleep during half time, but he basically looked as if he didn't want the ball in the first period of the game. Glad to hear that he played well.
 
pity he and giggsy could not end up with the gold medal.

anyway they will be back with the team soon which is great. we need him against barca.hehehe
 
Striker10 said:
You shouldn't be that surprised because Cleverlys talked about how he watches players closely and try's to work bits and pieces into his own game. The great thing is we've been talking about him for 2/3 years + and now we're seeing the start (hopefully) of a top player for United. Intelligence might be Ramsey's biggest weapon but I think Cleverlys a better player personally.
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Cleverley makes his mind up about what to do when he receives the ball faster than most young players ive seen. It's easily his biggest asset imo. I'd say he's among the top few at that in our squad overall as well.

He's talent that really excites me. If he can improve in some other areas we could have a top midfielder on our hands.
 
Assuming he stays fit where would he be in the pecking order? I'd actually initially have him starting with Carrick as first choice. Scholes will probably be first choice I reckon but I want to see Cleverley and Carrick get lots of time together as a combo. He'd definitely ahead of Anderson right now for me.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Assuming he stays fit where would he be in the pecking order? I'd actually initially have him starting with Carrick as first choice. Scholes will probably be first choice I reckon but I want to see Cleverley and Carrick get lots of time together as a combo. He'd definitely ahead of Anderson right now for me.
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Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa in midfield would be my first choice too. I think that lineup would be capable of playing the tippy tappy football we showed at the beginning of last season.
 
DevilRed said:
Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa in midfield would be my first choice too. I think that lineup would be capable of playing the tippy tappy football we showed at the beginning of last season.
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Yeah, with Carrick sitting, Cleverley just dictating play further forward and Kagawa linking up between the midfield and attackers. Should provide some very exciting football.
 
Well assuming we aren't selling Anderson then IMO he needs to start when fit at well. Cleverley Anderson Kagawa does seem to be a bit too attacking orientated though, but would work against weaker teams who just park the bus against us. Against any team with a decent midfield Carrick must play of course.
 
Is he why SAF seems disinterested in investing in central midfield?

Great series of performances by him in the Olympics.

If he can continue this trajectory in development and Anderson finally get his act together, then we have the right profile of players in our central midfield stable.
 
sammsky1 said:
Is he why SAF seems disinterested in investing in central midfield?

Great series of performances by him in the Olympics.

If he can continue this trajectory in development and Anderson finally get his act together, then we have the right profile of players in our central midfield stable.
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He did little or nothing for the first 80 minutes - I think he touched the ball twice in the first half hour of the second half - , then he improved and played quite well for the last 40 minutes of the game. His average performance over the full 120 minutes was poor. If he'd played like that for United, I doubt he'd be picked for the next game.
 
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