Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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He's not been average at all, hardly played in February except for the Fulham and Everton games where he was good. I thought on the whole he was good against Madrid, especially first half, then he had a rough time against Chelsea. He's been good this season, perfect foil for Carrick but he needs to impose himself more and not drift out of games, that will come with time.
 
manusteve said:
Funny how Scholes, the pre-eminent English central midfielder of his generation, revered by the likes of Zidane, Xavi, Davids, and Marcello Lippi etc. was not "trusted" by England coaches to play central midfield for England simply to accommodate Gerrard & Lampard. Oh yeah, like that yielded bountiful success, right???

Conversely Cleverley, a player that I as a United fan think is overrated at this stage of his career, seems to be a Hodgson favourite.

Mental...
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It's not that he wasn't trusted, it's that the options for left wing were so poor that Sven thought it'd be better to try and fit all three centre mids in the team instead of playing an inexperienced Joe Cole or going with the god awful Cole-Bridge wing partnership. With Scholesy already showing he can play in the hole as one of those floaty playmaker types he tried to fit him in that Zidane-esque left wing role...it's hardly an outrageous idea. And he played well there too. The Lampard-Gerrard midfield duo didn't work but playing Scholes in an inside-left role really isn't this great injustice that people go on about.
 
He was very good last night up until around the 65th minute when the game got really stretched. At this point he tired and started to lose his positional discipline. He was tired because he pressed Montenegro really well for the first hour but he ended up having to do far more pressing than he should have because England couldn't keep the ball.

His first half performance was excellent; he closed down space and got important tackles in where required, he found pockets where he linked the midfield and the attack with good control in tight areas and short incisive passing. When England managed to get Carrick, Welbeck or Cleverley on the ball they actually manged to retain possession and look in control.

Cleverley's link up play with Welbeck was included in all of England best moments from open play. One good bit of play resulted in a fantastic weighted through ball by him which Welbeck should of had a penalty from.

Overall this has been Cleverley's first full intense season at the highest level. He has gained valuable experience this season and his game has began to mature. He still has plenty of areas which require improvement but at 23 he's well on course to being a fantastic midfielder in the future, without ever being a Ballon'dor candidate. As he racks up appearances for club and country in important matches he can only gain confidence, improve and begin to assert himself in games more. By the time his game matures and he is 25-26 I think we will see a really specialist midfielder at what he does.

His standout qualities which make a top player are not really what British football fans easily recognize, such as his awareness of space and those around him, his determination to keep the ball even in tight areas, his patient possession play to wait for space before moving the ball into the final third and his ability to form understandings and combine with others around him to create angles and triangles.

Areas he needs to improve in are; his positioning for one, especially when the opponent has possession. He is very good at working hard to close down space but sometimes if he was positioned better in the first place he could get their even quicker. He ends up chasing so much he tires himself out towards the end of the game, last night for example. At times he looks as if he gets beaten to the ball too easily because he isn't anticipating these situations quick enough. He also needs to demand the ball quicker when he gets into these pockets of space. Currently he ends up making lots of angles to receive possession but no-one is on his wavelength or will trust him yet. That trust/understanding will be built with experience as he proves himself and therefore will make him more influential in games. All of the the things he can do better will improve with experience, confidence and maturity
 
SkeppyRed said:
He was very good last night up until around the 65th minute when the game got really stretched. At this point he tired and started to lose his positional discipline. He was tired because he pressed Montenegro really well for the first hour but he ended up having to do far more pressing than he should have because England couldn't keep the ball.

His first half performance was excellent; he closed down space and got important tackles in where required, he found pockets where he linked the midfield and the attack with good control in tight areas and short incisive passing. When England managed to get Carrick, Welbeck or Cleverley on the ball they actually manged to retain possession and look in control.

Cleverley's link up play with Welbeck was included in all of England best moments from open play. One good bit of play resulted in a fantastic weighted through ball by him which Welbeck should of had a penalty from.

Overall this has been Cleverley's first full intense season at the highest level. He has gained valuable experience this season and his game has began to mature. He still has plenty of areas which require improvement but at 23 he's well on course to being a fantastic midfielder in the future, without ever being a Ballon'dor candidate. As he racks up appearances for club and country in important matches he can only gain confidence, improve and begin to assert himself in games more. By the time his game matures and he is 25-26 I think we will see a really specialist midfielder at what he does.

His standout qualities which make a top player are not really what British football fans easily recognize, such as his awareness of space and those around him, his determination to keep the ball even in tight areas, his patient possession play to wait for space before moving the ball into the final third and his ability to form understandings and combine with others around him to create angles and triangles.

Areas he needs to improve in are; his positioning for one, especially when the opponent has possession. He is very good at working hard to close down space but sometimes if he was positioned better in the first place he could get their even quicker. He ends up chasing so much he tires himself out towards the end of the game, last night for example. At times he looks as if he gets beaten to the ball too easily because he isn't anticipating these situations quick enough. He also needs to demand the ball quicker when he gets into these pockets of space. Currently he ends up making lots of angles to receive possession but no-one is on his wavelength or will trust him yet. That trust/understanding will be built with experience as he proves himself and therefore will make him more influential in games. All of the the things he can do better will improve with experience, confidence and maturity
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Good post. I agree mostly as well he gets a lot of stick for supposedly 'what does he do'. However its things like this that go un-noticed by the same fans that keep banging on about possession football. You wonder why England can't get it right when really they don't know what it takes.
 
The thing that worries me about Cleverley is what his 'top level' looks like. Some players are incredibly inconsistent but you can see moments where their top level is remarkable. Cleverley seems like the opposite - very steady but I've seen very little of 'potential greatness'. He's tidy and neat and does a job, but I'm starting to question if that's what we really need from a first choice central midfielder.

He has some great attributes, but is also missing some pretty large ones for that position. His long passing is virtually non-existent, as is his goal threat. He doesn't offer much aerial support to Carrick in the middle, and manages to look busy without being that great defensively. And then there's the worrying trend of him looking gassed after 65 minutes.

The way our current system works is that the two central players are there to provide a shield and create the tempo to allow our front 4 to really do the damage. I think for our first choice XI we'd look better with a slightly more defensive, tenacious and physical midfielder playing Cleverley's role.

Cleverley looks to me like another number 10 player - but one that is nowhere near Kagawa or Rooney.
 
SkeppyRed said:
He was very good last night up until around the 65th minute when the game got really stretched. At this point he tired and started to lose his positional discipline. He was tired because he pressed Montenegro really well for the first hour but he ended up having to do far more pressing than he should have because England couldn't keep the ball.

His first half performance was excellent; he closed down space and got important tackles in where required, he found pockets where he linked the midfield and the attack with good control in tight areas and short incisive passing. When England managed to get Carrick, Welbeck or Cleverley on the ball they actually manged to retain possession and look in control.

Cleverley's link up play with Welbeck was included in all of England best moments from open play. One good bit of play resulted in a fantastic weighted through ball by him which Welbeck should of had a penalty from.

Overall this has been Cleverley's first full intense season at the highest level. He has gained valuable experience this season and his game has began to mature. He still has plenty of areas which require improvement but at 23 he's well on course to being a fantastic midfielder in the future, without ever being a Ballon'dor candidate. As he racks up appearances for club and country in important matches he can only gain confidence, improve and begin to assert himself in games more. By the time his game matures and he is 25-26 I think we will see a really specialist midfielder at what he does.

His standout qualities which make a top player are not really what British football fans easily recognize, such as his awareness of space and those around him, his determination to keep the ball even in tight areas, his patient possession play to wait for space before moving the ball into the final third and his ability to form understandings and combine with others around him to create angles and triangles.

Areas he needs to improve in are; his positioning for one, especially when the opponent has possession. He is very good at working hard to close down space but sometimes if he was positioned better in the first place he could get their even quicker. He ends up chasing so much he tires himself out towards the end of the game, last night for example. At times he looks as if he gets beaten to the ball too easily because he isn't anticipating these situations quick enough. He also needs to demand the ball quicker when he gets into these pockets of space. Currently he ends up making lots of angles to receive possession but no-one is on his wavelength or will trust him yet. That trust/understanding will be built with experience as he proves himself and therefore will make him more influential in games. All of the the things he can do better will improve with experience, confidence and maturity
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Good post.
 
I remember when people were crying out for 'pass and move'...he provides it but now it's his long passing and his goal threat.

The only issue I can see is his inability to be consistent in a 90 minute match. First 45 he always puts in a fairly impressive shift linking up with everyone as you expect of him, moving the ball around and opening up the holes. But the last month or two whilst he's actually not played in every game, he's looked really gassed.

I can't see an argument about what he brings to the table though, the fact is we're a midfielder or two short of a fairly complete squad and that issue doesn't fall on the backs of Cleverley and Carrick's ability as it is, because for us for the most part of the season when paired together in central midfield they've done very well. Not having adequate back-up or even players of higher calibre (if people want to argue that) is the issue.
 
Beachryan said:
The thing that worries me about Cleverley is what his 'top level' looks like. Some players are incredibly inconsistent but you can see moments where their top level is remarkable. Cleverley seems like the opposite - very steady but I've seen very little of 'potential greatness'. He's tidy and neat and does a job, but I'm starting to question if that's what we really need from a first choice central midfielder.

He has some great attributes, but is also missing some pretty large ones for that position. His long passing is virtually non-existent, as is his goal threat. He doesn't offer much aerial support to Carrick in the middle, and manages to look busy without being that great defensively. And then there's the worrying trend of him looking gassed after 65 minutes.

The way our current system works is that the two central players are there to provide a shield and create the tempo to allow our front 4 to really do the damage. I think for our first choice XI we'd look better with a slightly more defensive, tenacious and physical midfielder playing Cleverley's role.

Cleverley looks to me like another number 10 player - but one that is nowhere near Kagawa or Rooney.
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Why does he need to be 'potentially great', he can just be good you know. His passing range is fine, he can tackle and he can score goals. He just needs to bring everything together and do it for 90 mins, key thing this year is to stay fit. He's done that so far and he will build on it. He's going to be a fine midfielder.
 
He does make a lot of excellent runs from midfield, perhaps too many, he really helps our attacking fluency when he plays but he needs to pick and choose his moments better. First Half against Madrid I thought he was good positionally and showed a lot of nous. I think he defers to Carrick too much sometimes, but Carrick himself deferred to Scholes often until we decided to stick Cleverley there instead. The thing is with Cleverley is that people either expect too much or don't appreciate what he does.

I feel he's got everything to be part of a midfield two, there's nothing wrong with his engine or passing but he just needs to be smarter and that will come with time and experience.
 
If you put Cleverley and Andersons fitness together you may just have a player who can complete 90 minutes! Its strange how he fades from games you can see the ability there put it just goes at about the 70 minute mark. I think the summer will do him could he needs to strengthen up he can be pushed off the ball quite easily at times but in time should be a decent player for us and England.
 
Young player in his first real season of being first choice for club and country in inconsistency shocker.

FWIW I don't think he's gunna be this amazing talent who'll be in amongst the top 5 or 10 in his position but he's gunna be a damn good player. No doubt.
 
Cleverly's inconsistency doesn't really bother me as he is quite inexperienced, I'm sure he's going to be a good player.

The fact that he's a first choice midfielder for United and England is an indication of both teams' weakness in central midfield though.
 
He still has a lot to prove I think. He isn't one of those Jack Wilshere types that everyone can see he will certainly go on to be a fecking outstanding player. You still get the impression when watching him that it isn't quite nailed on that he will not turn out to be 'not all that'. At least he's clearly in with a chance of going on to become a very good player, which is enough for now in my view. He's 24 at the end of this season though, I'd hope he'll start putting his attributes together towards consistent excellence over the next two years.
 
Stobzilla said:
He'll have the exact same kind of career as Carrick I reckon. Not in terms of how they both play but how they are appreciated.
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He will play more advanced and has way more mobility in his locker. He will get goals and many more goals than Carrick has been recognized for.

I personally don't think his career will be anything like Carrick's.
 
He's a decent, above average, dependable, all-rounder, squad player. Good, not great - but I don't mean that in a negative sense.

As long as he's surrounded with quality, he'll be a vital part of the squad as long as he's here but he doesn't really excel at anything.
 
Cleverley is the type of player who will really mature in his mid to late twenties. If he does progress the way we hope he will, I think he's the type of player who would be able to easily play into his thirties so there's still a long way for him to go.

I think one of his main problems is having to live up to his last season hype. He played very well of course in his limited appearances but lets put his game time this year into perspective.

He's started 38 games in total this season taking into account his 8 international appearances and 5 full matches in the Olympics.

Last season he started only 13, in 10/11 he started 19. He did start 35 games for Watford in the championship the year before.

It's been a big leap for him this year and he's started double the amount of games than he has in any of his short PL career. I do think he will go on to be a really good midfielder for us and in time possibly a great one.

It will be interesting when Scholes returns. From what I remember of their last couple of games together Cleverley does look towards Scholes for leadership on the pitch and lets the play run through him. Once he gets more confidence in his own ability, he'll realise that he could be at the heart of our build up play and be able to assert his dominance in making things happen.
 
Genius Me! said:
Cleverley is the type of player who will really mature in his mid to late twenties. If he does progress the way we hope he will, I think he's the type of player who would be able to easily play into his thirties so there's still a long way for him to go.

I think one of his main problems is having to live up to his last season hype. He played very well of course in his limited appearances but lets put his game time this year into perspective.

He's started 38 games in total this season taking into account his 8 international appearances and 5 full matches in the Olympics.

Last season he started only 13, in 10/11 he started 19. He did start 35 games for Watford in the championship the year before.

It's been a big leap for him this year and he's started double the amount of games than he has in any of his short PL career. I do think he will go on to be a really good midfielder for us and in time possibly a great one.

It will be interesting when Scholes returns. From what I remember of their last couple of games together Cleverley does look towards Scholes for leadership on the pitch and lets the play run through him. Once he gets more confidence in his own ability, he'll realise that he could be at the heart of our build up play and be able to assert his dominance in making things happen.
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I don't remember many occasions where the 2 of them played together and it's probably something we'll never see again.

Scholes is done.
 
Carl said:
I don't remember many occasions where the 2 of them played together and it's probably something we'll never see again.

Scholes is done.
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It didnt take many games to notice it, like I said I'm basing that judgement on the couple of games that I recall them playing together.
 
ghaliboy said:
He will play more advanced and has way more mobility in his locker. He will get goals and many more goals than Carrick has been recognized for.

I personally don't think his career will be anything like Carrick's.
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"Not in terms of how they play"

That couldn't possibly be any clearer.

What I meant was is that he will be met with initial optimism, he will then be vilified without doing too much wrong and then appreciated more and more as he gets closer to his 30's.
 
I think England would've done better if Cleverley was playing next to Carrick and Gerrard further ahead rather than the other way round.
 
AttackingFlair said:
I think England would've done better if Cleverley was playing next to Carrick and Gerrard further ahead rather than the other way round.
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This is the big issue for me, which everyone seems to be missing, and the key reason why England struggled against Montenegro. Hodgson still thinks Cleverley is an attacking midfielder who can play as a number 10. He's said it in interviews. In fact, he's been bemused when it was suggested otherwise in interviews. Whereas actually, Tom is much better played deeper, where he can control the tempo but doesn't have to be too adventurous. He has the technical ability to play further up, but his preference not to take risks makes him ineffective there.

So with Carrick, who is obviously a natural deep-lying midfielder, and Gerrard, who has played at the base of the midfield for England for a good two or three years now, we essentially had three at the base of midfield, then a big gap, then Rooney up front. That, for me, was the big problem with our line-up (although Hodgson doing nothing about the fact that we coasted complacently through the first half after the goal and then slipped further and further out of the game in the second didn't help. Was he asleep?)
 
Brightonian said:
This is the big issue for me, which everyone seems to be missing, and the key reason why England struggled against Montenegro. Hodgson still thinks Cleverley is an attacking midfielder who can play as a number 10. He's said it in interviews. In fact, he's been bemused when it was suggested otherwise in interviews. Whereas actually, Tom is much better played deeper, where he can control the tempo but doesn't have to be too adventurous. He has the technical ability to play further up, but his preference not to take risks makes him ineffective there.

So with Carrick, who is obviously a natural deep-lying midfielder, and Gerrard, who has played at the base of the midfield for England for a good two or three years now, we essentially had three at the base of midfield, then a big gap, then Rooney up front. That, for me, was the big problem with our line-up (although Hodgson doing nothing about the fact that we coasted complacently through the first half after the goal and then slipped further and further out of the game in the second didn't help. Was he asleep?)
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Yup.
 
Didn't Woy use Gerrard as an attacking mid in Liverpool? Shouldn't he know Gerrard is a better attacking mid and Cleverely is a better central mid? I am surprised his staff haven't advised him on this issue.
 
RDCR07 said:
Didn't Woy use Gerrard as an attacking mid in Liverpool? Shouldn't he know Gerrard is a better attacking mid and Cleverely is a better central mid? I am surprised his staff haven't advised him on this issue.
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The English midfield ran out of gas! Carrick has never been the most mobile! Cleverley and Gerrard are more reactive players but whilst Cleverley runs out of gas around the 60 min mark Gerrard looks like an old man now his legs have gone!
 
For me if Cleverley develops his appreciation of the space he is afforded in the final third sometimes, he'd be such a good player. He gets into some really good attacking positions but he is so reluctant to take on the responsibility to shoot or go for the killer pass himself. It's the Fabregas syndrome from a few years back... this kid has it in his locker to be alot more integral to the side, he's not just a water carrier.. he can be a proper box to box player if he adds goals and assists.

I think he tries too hard to avoid making mistakes and doing the safe things in possession, which is great in defensive and midfield areas but when we're on the counter or we need to unlock a defence, he needs to have more faith in his ability and get strikes off on at goal. Can only see him getting better if he remains injury free, hope he doesn't stagnate.
 
Lawman said:
The English midfield ran out of gas! Carrick has never been the most mobile! Cleverley and Gerrard are more reactive players but whilst Cleverley runs out of gas around the 60 min mark Gerrard looks like an old man now his legs have gone!
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What the hell does that have to do with anything I've said?
 
Sultan said:
Played out of position
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Sults knows. Can't understand why he played wide left because Carrick looked desperate for someone to come towards him at times and offer some kind of option and it just wasn't happening with Jones unwilling to take it on and Giggs constantly going to the left flank. Oh well....
 
I think he's knackered... it's been his first full season for god knows how long.

Doesn't help when he's played out of position mind.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Have they? Been poor last two games against Chelsea.
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city, Real, faded against Liverpool in the 2nd half, faded at Stamford Bridge earlier in the season. He's a nice player and he's a much better option than Anderson but he's not the long term and permanent answer to playing alongside Carrick.
 
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