Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I still want him to get better, that means getting some goals, making killer passes and getting assists.

Reading those comments above though - I have just realised that he has made the step up to international level without becoming shit.
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There was one wasteful attempt at a Hollywood ball at the start of the second half and I started to worry that Cleverley had caught the disease but thank God he went back to normal after that.

I agree he has gotta do more and I believe he can do more. There was a lovely through ball to Welbs that opened the defence right up late on, we know he can make the killer pass and maybe he has been a little conservative lately? But I'd rather he keep the ball than try to play stupid passes.

Needs goals though. That is something I very much agree on.
 
charleysurf said:
I dont think "hit and hope" is in his makeup, he looks for a clear shot on goal. He should pay attention to Lampard. You'll only be rated if you score goals.
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Iniesta doesn't really score many goals but he has a lot more to his game so he's still considered one of the best footballers in the world.
 
gooDevil said:
He's not a goal scorer, I thought he did a quite good job of facilitating the attack through an advanced position.

Not his fault Hodgson started Lampard and Gerrard in the middle, and Milner anywhere.
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Hopefully he can work on that element of his game and start adding some goals. I agree that he does look more suited to facilitating but maybe if he adds goals he could be a really top asset.

Ubik said:
Hodgson: "Tom Cleverley was terrific through the 90 minutes. You can understand why Sir Alex Ferguson plays him so much. He came into a team alongside players such as Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard and didn't look out of place."

Lampard: "Tom Cleverley's a pleasure to play alongside. He's going to be part of the team for years to come."

Erm, Danny Mills: "Tom Cleverley was exceptional in the first half"

Those are the ones I've nicked off the BBC text anyway.
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SOme nice words, barring injury this could be a cracking year for him, and thankfully he's looking up for it.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. Just goes to show how retarded some (so called) fans are.
 
Cina said:
Plus nobody else in our midfield can tackle, except Carrick, who hasn't really played in midfield.
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Carrick doesn't tackle though. He's attempted and completed 3 tackles this season and didn't make a single tackle in the game against Fulham.
Carrick doesn't close play and make challenges (which would complement Cleverley's game immensely) he closes space and stands off looking for interceptions.

The only real player that has ever closed looking for tackles as a ground duelling midfielder is Fletcher.
 
Carrick was one of the best midfield tacklers of last season, made a lot more tackles than interceptions
 
Sarni said:
Iniesta doesn't really score many goals but he has a lot more to his game so he's still considered one of the best footballers in the world.
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This attitude/rating is why Spain wins trophies and England fails badly
 
Rarely have I seen Cleverley pass through the air. Should add that aspect to his game. He has professor Scholes at the club.
 
Sarni said:
I don't think it's the main reason though. It goes way deeper than that.
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Of course there's much more to that. But just have a look what seems to be important in English football compared to Spain
 
Clev is quite an interesting player when he does that number 10 role. Watching him for England and the olympics and even when he gets forward for united he's very much about keeping the attack going. He makes himself available to the attacking line and helps move on the ball when things stall. He doesn't appear a goal scorer in the lampard mould, nor does he seem to carry the ball in the way a nasri/silva/iniesta would. Also atm he doesn't seem to play the last ball, the one that creates the chance, he plays the pass before that, which is fine as long as the chance gets created, but I wonder if against better teams where we need a special pass to unlock the door if he has that.

In a deeper role though his approach could work really well and yesterday again he impressed with his touch, movement and short passing. It's just the discipline he has to work on. I'd hoped he would play a deeper role for England, but as we're likely to persist with Gerrard who seems to have to play a deeper role it's unlikely he'll get too many chances there in the short term.
 
I really like how Cleverley's developing. He's a good passer of the ball, always bright and positive, always wants the ball. He's one of those that could potentially kick up his game a notch or two and become one of our best players. But even at the level he is now he's starting games for United and England on merit which, at 23, is a great place to be at.

There's never any guarantees but if he keeps working hard and stays injury free I can see this team playing a lot of their football through him over the next few years.
 
Escobar said:
Of course there's much more to that. But just have a look what seems to be important in English football compared to Spain
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People/pundits have been saying for years that England need players who can keep the ball and pass with accuracy. But it isnt just going to happen overnight. Footballers arent instantly made over night using some test tubes.

The inclusion of Wilshire in the England team and now Cleverley and Chamberlain shows its moving in the right direction, but with Cleverley's injury before the euros and Wilshire being a perma crock things havent gone as fast as you'd like.

And despite what people on here say, you simply cannot just leave players like Lampard and Gerrard out and expect to have the respect of your players. They've done a lot in the game and still have plenty to offer.
 
I thought TC did pretty well last night. Interesting that he seems far more comfortable starting in an advanced position and dropping deep than he does for us in a deeper role to begin with.

I was impressed with his all round game. Good energy and workrate, neat and tidy, always looking to receive the ball and keep it moving.

A far cry from his performance away at Saints. I would like to see a 3 man mid for us, with TC as the most advanced of them.

-----------DDG----------
Rafael--Rio--Vidic---Evra
------Carrick---Ando-----
-------------TC-----------
Nani---------------Kagawa
-----------RVP------------

I like this system personally, yes we can tinker with the personnel up front. It offers a way to protect our vulnerable area, while still allowing quick breaks from the full backs and from central positions.

I like the fact TC can start further forward and drop deep, without having to do too much defending in his own half. We still have Anderson who can break forward from deep, and we have the added protection Carrick offers.

The wide players can cut inside and allow room for the full backs to get forward and provide width. But with this system, we have balance, pace energy, good protection for the CB's and plenty of scope for keeping good possession, and link up play through the middle.

It seems to suit the players too, rather than playing them in roles they are not that comfortable in, simply to accommodate a particular system.
 
Said before but neither Ando or Clev are good enough to justify leaving out Valencia/Rooney and to put Kagawa in to a role where he can have less effect, think he's spoken recently how he doesn't really like playing a wider role for Japan. Clev needs to learn how to play in central midfield and that formation will just delay that.
 
apotheosis said:
I thought TC did pretty well last night. Interesting that he seems far more comfortable starting in an advanced position and dropping deep than he does for us in a deeper role to begin with.

I was impressed with his all round game. Good energy and workrate, neat and tidy, always looking to receive the ball and keep it moving.

A far cry from his performance away at Saints. I would like to see a 3 man mid for us, with TC as the most advanced of them.

-----------DDG----------
Rafael--Rio--Vidic---Evra
------Carrick---Ando-----
-------------TC-----------
Nani---------------Kagawa
-----------RVP------------

I like this system personally, yes we can tinker with the personnel up front. It offers a way to protect our vulnerable area, while still allowing quick breaks from the full backs and from central positions.

I like the fact TC can start further forward and drop deep, without having to do too much defending in his own half. We still have Anderson who can break forward from deep, and we have the added protection Carrick offers.

The wide players can cut inside and allow room for the full backs to get forward and provide width. But with this system, we have balance, pace energy, good protection for the CB's and plenty of scope for keeping good possession, and link up play through the middle.

It seems to suit the players too, rather than playing them in roles they are not that comfortable in, simply to accommodate a particular system.
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There's only 3 quality attacking players in that side; that's more of how I'd expect someone to line up against us, rather than us against Fulham.

It'd probably get the job done, but we should be looking to play at least 4 quality attackers, and I'm not sure Cleverley can link the attack with the rest of the team, if we do need to play against harder teams; Kagawa is just so so much better at that, and failing having him, Rooney/RvP are going to be just so much better than him at that CAM/CF position.

A 4231 is already far more defensive than our 442; I don't think we'll go 433 with 3 midfielders that aren't famed for attacking prowess.

Cleverley also isn't a player we should feck up our formation for, neither.

He's not good enough to warrant leaving out Valencia and shunting Kagawa wide / leaving Kagawa out, let alone Roo / RvP.
 
Clev played well yesterday but nothing like as good as he did in the first half at home to Fulham. It's simply the case the rest of the England midfield is so clearly technically inferior to him that he stood out more. If you think about what he did against Fulham eg the sliding tackle pass, the chipped through ball to Van Persie there was none of that in Moldova. A cheeky flick to Defoe yes but by and large what Tom did was the simple things well. That should be the minimum an international level midfielder does but sadly we're so used to Hollywood balls to row Z that a decent composed performance is actually noticeable. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of Tom's and I'm not trying to talk him down: he was good but not great.

Clev's played better this season for United than he did last night but because as Escobar is correctly hinting at cos we're a kick and rush nation the fact he reacts to tackles by dribbling and finding the chance to pass instead of wellying it into the crowd the press find it fascinating. It's sad what was arguably Clev's 3rd best showing (if you include the Hannover game) seems so remarkable to the English press.
 
Garethw said:
Thanks for the responses guys. Just goes to show how retarded some (so called) fans are.
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Here's some more observations to bitch-slap your FB mates with:

Telegraph
A first competitive start and a key part in England’s first goal which undoubtedly helped him settle. Sharp and positive with an eye for goal — sending a first-time shot narrowly wide in second-half - he was full of energy and understood well the role allotted to him to try and break forward to support Defoe. 8

Independent
Certainly didn’t look out of place in the No 10 shirt, performing well in advancing role, and always looked to start attacks. 8

Mirror
First competitive start. His third minute shot won England’s early penalty to settle the nerves. Busy and impressive in role just behind forward line.7
 

This video is probably already posted somewhere in this thread as its certainly not new. But for anyone who like myself hadnt already seen it, its a nice look back at Tom's journey into the team
 
apotheosis said:
I thought TC did pretty well last night. Interesting that he seems far more comfortable starting in an advanced position and dropping deep than he does for us in a deeper role to begin with.

I was impressed with his all round game. Good energy and workrate, neat and tidy, always looking to receive the ball and keep it moving.

A far cry from his performance away at Saints. I would like to see a 3 man mid for us, with TC as the most advanced of them.

-----------DDG----------
Rafael--Rio--Vidic---Evra
------Carrick---Ando-----
-------------TC-----------
Nani---------------Kagawa
-----------RVP------------

I like this system personally, yes we can tinker with the personnel up front. It offers a way to protect our vulnerable area, while still allowing quick breaks from the full backs and from central positions.

I like the fact TC can start further forward and drop deep, without having to do too much defending in his own half. We still have Anderson who can break forward from deep, and we have the added protection Carrick offers.

The wide players can cut inside and allow room for the full backs to get forward and provide width. But with this system, we have balance, pace energy, good protection for the CB's and plenty of scope for keeping good possession, and link up play through the middle.

It seems to suit the players too, rather than playing them in roles they are not that comfortable in, simply to accommodate a particular system.
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Makes utmost sense to keep our most consistent player of the last two-three seasons out of the team. Well done.
 
KM said:
Makes utmost sense to keep our most consistent player of the last two-three seasons out of the team. Well done.
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I brought this up the other week. Seemingly loads of people can't wait to see Rooney dropped. Seems utterly bizarre to me.

EDIT: Unless that side's based on who's fit right now...

Further EDIT: I presume you're on about Rooney seeing as Carrick is in the side.
 
cw1984 said:
I brought this up the other week. Seemingly loads of people can't wait to see Rooney dropped. Seems utterly bizarre to me.

EDIT: Unless that side's based on who's fit right now...
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I was talking about Tony Valencia to be fair!
 
KM said:
I was talking about Tony Valencia to be fair!
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Oh! Well, I'm a big fan of Tony V but most consistant player in the last 2-3 years? I'd say that's going a tad overboard.

I do love his serious face though. So much so that when I said I wanted to have his babies on Twitter my mrs said "It was a little bit funny at first but this is the 4th time now and it's just weird. Stop it." :(
 
cw1984 said:
Oh! Well, I'm a big fan of Tony V but most consistant player in the last 2-3 years? I'd say that's going a tad overboard.

I do love his serious face though. So much so that when I said I wanted to have his babies on Twitter my mrs said "It was a little bit funny at first but this is the 4th time now and it's just weird. Stop it." :(
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:lol:

Yeah I also've a weird obsession with his serious face.

In seriousness though, I'm sure you'll agree that Valencia should be in our first XI everytime based on his recent form!
 
Who has been our most consistent player then?
 
Mainoldo said:
For WATFORD yess...

Watching him it's as clear as day his finishing isn't the best. He doesn't strike the ball with much conviction.
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He's a good finisher. He has a good scoring record in the ressies, out on loan and in pre-season with United.

His strength in the finishing department is also his weakness at the moment. He has composure and looks to pass it into the net, however at the top level you don't always have that time and someone you need to just strike it quickly and firmly when the opportunity arises. That'll be something he can work on. The sort of goals that Rooney didn't use to score when he first arrived at the club but now puts away comfortably. I have no doubt Cleverley and the United staff will address this issue.
 
ghaliboy said:
:lol: again with this continued 'he was shite' bollocks?
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I don't call player's 'shite'. Not ours, nor those of any other club. I have given my opinion on how why i feel he played like he did in the first couple of games.

Try and reflect that significant difference, when referencing my views if you wouldn't mind.

I would also point out that any criticism i may have given was not targeted at any specific player, but generally for the poor organisation and communication throughout the team, that are leading to our sloppy performances. I have not blamed any player, let alone TC.

I don't get the specific use of quotemarks for 'he was shite'. It that something i am meant to have stated? When i have ever made such a ridiculous claim?

You may have taken that from my posts, but that is down to poor interpretation on your part in my view. Never would i, or have i ever even slightly intimated anything remotely like that.
 
What did the media think?

Manchester United and England midfielder Tom Cleverley impresses Ryan Giggs
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8063261?

Tom Cleverley singled out for praise after rampant England score five
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/footba...t-for-praise-after-rampant-england-score-five

Moldova v England: Tom Cleverley hints at a brighter future for Roy Hodgson
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...nts-at-a-brighter-future-for-Roy-Hodgson.html

Tom Cleverley – The rising star of England
http://thepeoplesperson.com/2012/09/08/tom-cleverley-the-rising-star-of-england/
 
Cleverley looks a really useful player currently, but needs to be more expressive. His dribbling and goalscoring ability is better than he is showing it to be at the moment. Still, encouraging display last night given what the national team usually does to footballers. Two good performances in a row now.
 
Clev was awesome for England the other day. Always passes simple if its on which is what we need but can pick off longer floor passes too. Always moving and wanting the ball.
 
Steven Gerrard:

Gerrard was impressed by Cleverley’s performance and is confident the 23-year-old will get even better for both club and country.

“Cleverley’s going to be a good player,” said Gerrard. “He’s only a young boy and games like this will be fantastic experience for him. He’s playing for one of the biggest clubs in Europe and he’s broken into the England team, so he’s got a great future.

“If he keeps learning the game and *trying to improve, he’s going to be a fantastic footballer.

“He’s doing a good job. He’s played twice in that position now, against Italy and Moldova, and done himself no harm. He can also play as a midfielder. It’s important when you’re young to be able to play in a couple of different positions. It helps you get into starting XIs and he can do that.”
 
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