Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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People are going to be shocked when we eventually do sign a world class midfielder, and still have periods where the opposition are on top.

No doubt the match day thread arseholes will find somebody else to blame.
 
Drainy said:
People are going to be shocked when we eventually do sign a world class midfielder, and still have periods where the opposition are on top.

No doubt the match day thread arseholes will find somebody else to blame.
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I agree. It's been pointed out several times though that there are clubs with more average squads than ours, who dominate games better and play better football despite the personnel they have. Everton and Southampton spring to mind. The last three or 4 games for us were a step in the right direction imo but we should be looking to get this group of players playing to their individual potentials and playing better football collectively because bringing one or two quality players whilst playing with a lack of belief or identity, like we were, isn't going to fix anything.
 
Standards are so low when it comes to our midfielders. That's why a signing like Cabaye would probably stand out a mile in our team. He can do everything Cleverley does, with added goals, better passing and a pair of balls.
 
sh02 said:
That's a bizarre point seeing as we won the title last season with him in midfield last season.
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We won the title last season because of a number of factors. The two main factors that I can see were
- Michael Carrick was the best 1 man midfield in Europe
- RVP and his goals

There a number of other particulars and none of which begin or end with Cleverley in our midfield.
 
Gaeilge said:
We won the title last season because of a number of factors. The two main factors that I can see were
- Michael Carrick was the best 1 man midfield in Europe
- RVP and his goals

There a number of other particulars and none of which begin or end with Cleverley in our midfield.
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Despite Cleverley starting almost every big game last season and doing very well in them. Despite him looking completely at ease against Real fecking Madrid.

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like Cleverley? Hurl abuse when he has a bad game and ignore all the good stuff he's done for the club. Pathetic.
Drainy said:
People are going to be shocked when we eventually do sign a world class midfielder, and still have periods where the opposition are on top.

No doubt the match day thread arseholes will find somebody else to blame.
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100% true. People are expecting someone like Koke to come in and dominate.
 
Clearly good enough to be a squad player here. There is absolutely no way he should be an automatic first choice but unfortunately he usually is because of our lack of options. He has made improvements recently and hopefully be can keep building on that.
 
Twigginter said:
Yesterday it's because apart from Ashley Young (and Danny when he came on) no-one could hold the ball further up the pitch. It was horrendous. We had Kagawa/Giggs/Hernandez yesterday who didn't do anything at all in the first half.
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Tom Cleverley Is a CM who is supposed to be able to not only hold the ball up, but, also be able to get himself into winning positions and create something for his team.

Over the Christmas period, one positive thing springs to mind when I think about Tom... a long range shot that produced a great save at Hull. His trademark run around in a circle with the ball is not gonna hack it at United. He is continuously found wanting and he is supposed to be a player that dicates/controls a game for us. Are we still supposed to pat him on the back and say 'you're getting better mate', just because he came through our academy?

He is 24 years old and still we wait. I really want him to push on at United, I really do. He just does not seem to have the ability to do such. Welbeck cane on yesterday and completely outshun everybody ' including him. He continuously gets himself free and throws the hands out saying 'pass pass pass'. Yet more than 50% of the time, he ends up behind an opposition player.

I suppose I'm just frustrated with him because its obvious he has the goods and can't release
 
akash02 said:
Despite Cleverley starting almost every big game last season and doing very well in them. Despite him looking completely at ease against Real fecking Madrid.

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like Cleverley? Hurl abuse when he has a bad game and ignore all the good stuff he's done for the club. Pathetic.
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That is anything but true. Are you honestly telling me that Thomas Cleverley is the answer to our midfield woe?
 
Gaeilge said:
That is anything but true. Are you honestly telling me that Thomas Cleverley is the answer to our midfield woe?
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It most definitely is.

Where have I said that? He's not the answer but he's not the reason for it either. Stop looking for ways to have a pop at him. He's been excellent since the Shakhtar game and even before that people were way to harsh on his performances. Yesterday he wasn't all that but that's hardly shocking given the run of games he's had
 
akash02 said:
It most definitely is.

Where have I said that? He's not the answer but he's not the reason for it either. Stop looking for ways to have a pop at him. He's been excellent since the Shakhtar game and even before that people were way to harsh on his performances. Yesterday he wasn't all that but that's hardly shocking given the run of games he's had
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Hes been excellent? Ha

Look it, I'll leave you at it pal. If Tom Cleverley has been excellent in your eyes, we are done here.
 
Gaeilge said:
Hes been excellent? Ha

Look it, I'll leave you at it pal. If Tom Cleverley has been excellent in your eyes, we are done here.
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He's hardly excellent but he's showing to be a decent squad player and we're going to need those in the coming months
 
Indeed we are. With your logic though no one is good enough for United because we are struggling to finish in the top 4 including Rooney. But no, Tom Cleverley is the reason why United are shite. Jesus wept
 
akash02 said:
Indeed we are. With your logic though no one is good enough for United because we are struggling to finish in the top 4 including Rooney. But no, Tom Cleverley is the reason why United are shite. Jesus wept
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I don't know why you're bothering.
 
Cleverley has improved in recent games but there was certainly good reason to criticise him before, he's had some very poor games this season. Even he admitted he wasn't playing well, didn't he?

Anyway, Cleverley isn't the cause of our struggles in midfield, the lack of quality around him is. He'll end up being a fine squad player for us if we strengthen properly. You just can't really expect any more than that from him.
 
Indeed we are. With your logic though no one is good enough for United because we are struggling to finish in the top 4 including Rooney. But no, Tom Cleverley is the reason why United are shite. Jesus wept
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Never once have I layed blame for our dismal start on the shoulders of Tom Cleverley - nor have I singled anybody in the rest of the team for the performances throghout the season. If you care to read over any of my previous posts, I have lavished praise on a number of our young squad and I am very happy that we have this abundance of talent that is waiting for its spark.

I have said already that Cleverley is a squad player and one that tries his very best. If you and others would like to contest that I am laying waste to him with my criticism - than fine. I will not backtrack on what I have said...

While he is trying his best, we will continue to struggle if he is in the centre of the park for us. I have no issue with jim coming off the bench to sure up our midfield, or, take his place in a midfield three. The fact remains that while we operate with a two man midfield, he simply is not good enough.

Phil Jones walked into midfield and in a miniscule amount of time has already established himself (in many peoples eyes) as a better man in the centre of the field that Tom. Improving in minorities on 'not making the grade' is something that we should not be satisfied with. People on the Caf are against the signing of the likes of Cabaye because he will not improve us and is not United material. He is an immediate improvement on Tom Cleverley.

Wayne Rooney is spearheading our resurgence (if you will call it that) and without him, I would rather not think!
 
I'm not judging Cleverley over one game but since he broke into the 1st team and for me he has been found wanting.
 
Gaeilge said:
Never once have I layed blame for our dismal start on the shoulders of Tom Cleverley -
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Definitely not.

Gaeilge said:
If Tom Cleverley is good enough to maintain a midfield pairing for Manchester United, we would not be struggling in a fight for fourth place. I am not being unfair or overly critical but how in the feck can people argue otherwise? He is a lad who came through the ranks and broke into the first team - fantastic job for him! I read one comment above...
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Unless I am reading that wrong, it's a clear implication that Tom Cleverley is at fault for our midfield problems. And then you seem to think you are not being overly critical or unfair:lol: That's without even going to the ridiculous point you are trying to make. We won the fecking title with Tom CLeverley in midfield last season, the same Cleverley you are now blaming for us not being in the top 4. What you are doing is ignoring an entire season's worth of evidence, a season where he had plenty of good games against the bigger teams.
 
Is there a midfielder in the world, playing for a top team like United, week in week out who is as poor as Tom Cleverley? Opposition midfielders play against him like he isn't even there. He's probably the most ineffectual midfielder I've ever seen play for us.
 
Don16 said:
Is there a midfielder in the world, playing for a top team like United, week in week out who is as poor as Tom Cleverley? Opposition midfielders play against him like he isn't even there. He's probably the most ineffectual midfielder I've ever seen play for us.
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wow
 
[quote="akash02, post: 14734638, member: 69862]Definitely not.



Unless I am reading that wrong, it's a clear implication that Tom Cleverley is at fault for our midfield problems. And then you seem to think you are not being overly critical or unfair:lol: That's without even going to the ridiculous point you are trying to make. We won the fecking title with Tom CLeverley in midfield last season, the same Cleverley you are now blaming for us not being in the top 4. What you are doing is ignoring an entire season's worth of evidence, a season where he had plenty of good games against the bigger teams.[/quote]
Do me one favour please.

I know the pinnacle importance of having a man between the sticks that you can trust. A solid defense which in most cases, is held together by a warrior with a strong voice ~ ala Vidic, Jaap, Bruce etc. A striker (s) that is/are capable of doing what is necess to succeed as a successful team - score goals. In general, a team that is able to function as one unit, all with their own job/role in creating a winning combination.

My question manifests itself around this. Which role is largely considered to be the most significant? Who is the cog in the entire machine? Who pulls the strings? Which position dictates play and in such, largely controls the outcome of a game? Answer this please.
 
Gaeilge said:
[quote="akash02, post: 14734638, member: 69862]
My question manifests itself around this. Which role is largely considered to be the most significant? The player without the ball. Who is the cog in the entire machine? The player without the ball. Who pulls the strings? The player without the ball. Which position dictates play and in such, largely controls the outcome of a game? The player without the ball. Answer this please.
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The most important player at any one moment during a game is the player without the ball.
 
Stack said:
The most important player at any one moment during a game is the player without the ball.
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Ok. Would you be as kind as to respond to the question in the manner of the question asked. I am not discussing the obvious factors in tracking back or taking up an attractive attacking position ~ ala Dortmund. I am discussing individuals and their positions. Please do not enter a debate and attempt to confuse my question.
 
Gaeilge said:
Ok. Would you be as kind as to respond to the question in the manner of the question asked. I am not discussing the obvious factors in tracking back or taking up an attractive attacking position ~ ala Dortmund. I am discussing individuals and their positions. Please do not enter a debate and attempt to confuse my question.
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Not trying to confuse it at all. The most important player at any one moment is the player without the ball. That means that the player with the ball has options to pass too, they have passing channels opened up by players making decoy runs etc etc. Same deal defensively, the player not engaging the opposition player with the ball (i.e. the other 10) are cutting off passing channels, pressuring the first touch, restricting options etc. The key point being its a team game, no single position is the pivot.
 
stack said:
Not trying to confuse it at all. The most important player at any one moment is the player without the ball. That means that the player with the ball has options to pass too, they have passing channels opened up by players making decoy runs etc etc. Same deal defensively, the player not engaging the opposition player with the ball (i.e. the other 10) are cutting off passing channels, pressuring the first touch, restricting options etc. The key point being its a team game, no single position is the pivot.
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As I just said, I am not discussing the movement/position of a footballer. I am discussinh a players position and the role with regards to such. You are attempting to dissolve that question and that's all good. I am not interested in breaking down the fundamentals of a footballer. I was discussing Tom Cleverley.

I don't really care too much about this debate if I'm being honest. I know I'm positively right here. Tom is a squad player for Manchester United. That is all he will achieve here. Had we to have landed Fabregas (lol) in the summer, we would not even be discussing this right now.

As of now, our best midfield pairing - imo, is Carrick and Jones. That to me would see us playing much more controlled ball. That's just my opinion and what I would love to see.
 
Stack said:
your favourite word is "I".
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Well I'm hardly speaking on behalf of the Caf. I am speaking on behalf of myself. Have I done something wrong? I must have, as you seem to have been offended by something? ?

I am very sorry that Tom Cleverley is not good enough for our starting XI?
 
MoneyMay said:
I think he's a decent squad player. We should look at Anderson. Cleverley's safe.
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The likes of ando hardly count. It should be a forgone conclusion that he's a goner.
zain said:
Nonsense.
You're telling me BEFORE getting rid of Bebe, and Buttner, and possibly even Anderson, Cleverley should be gotten rid off before all of them??!

Get a grip.
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Well, the others don't really get on the pitch, they'll follow suit. Getting rid of Cleverley will show a degree of seriousness that we haven't shown in a long time regarding our midfield. He simply isn't good enough to be here and I have no idea why so many believe he is.
 
RooneyLegend said:
The likes of ando hardly count. It should be a forgone conclusion that he's a goner.

Well, the others don't really get on the pitch, they'll follow suit. Getting rid of Cleverley will show a degree of seriousness that we haven't shown in a long time regarding our midfield. He simply isn't good enough to be here and I have no idea why so many believe he is.
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As much as I don't rate him highly there are a few needing out before him. Rio Giggs Nani Anderson Bebe Machadea Fabio
 
People actually want to get rid of him? His performances of late have generally been quite good and he is a more than capable squad player.
 
Only morons want him actually gone. Sure you could argue we need somebody better in the future, but he's more than capable as a squad player.
 
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