He's a better midfielder than Fellaini.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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He's a better midfielder than Fellaini.
I disagree Fellaini is much better IMO and once he settles in we will see this.
I beg to differ.
Fellaini's a better player as a supporting striker, but we're never going to play him there at United consistantly.
Fellaini will be a sitting midfielder eventually and IMO he will be quality.
Cleverley is just a dog that runs around a lot. He works hard but it's all desperate with him when he tries to tackle people.
He was pretty much at the same level as the other part of the team (bar Welbeck and defense which were really good, while Evra was really bad). Nothing strange, it surely is difficult playing all these games in such a short time, especially considering that a lot of players are injured.
True, I think this period of the season is all about getting the job done. It's a difficult period for players and I don't think performances matter too much at Christmas, it's about putting yourself in a good position come the new year. And I think him and the team are doing so.
There we'll have to agree to disagree.
But nevertheless, we need reinforcements in midfield. Cleverley's had his shot at making one of the CM slots his own and he hasn't been close to doing that IMO.
As far as I could see, Giggs and Evra were paralysingly shit and everyone else was poor-average all game except for Welbeck in the second half (and possibly Young in the first, given what he was working with). No-one's writing off Carrick, Vidic or Hernandez' quality based on this match so I don't think it's fair to draw any conclusions about Cleverley from it. He's been much improved over the last five or so matches, which is a better period upon which to make a judgement.
He'll be a decent squad player for us in the long-term.
Is he not allowed to have a poor game in this current good run of form of his? He's had four good consecutive games. A poor game in the current context of fixtures coming in every couple of days isn't enough to go back to slating him.
He started against Aston Villa. Three days later, he started against Stoke. Three days later, he started against West Ham. Five days later, he started against Hull. Two days later, he started against Norwich. It's pretty much expected that he's going to look jaded and subdued, when you look at it like this. Ramsey, for example, picked up a thigh strain against West Ham and I'd argue that's because he had to play two games in three days.
Our midfield was really bad. Giggs was shocking. Carrick looked rusty. And Cleverley had his worst game since Newcastle at home, which wasn't even bad. One thing I will criticise him for is his tackling technique against Norwich. He lost out on challenges he should be winning.
He started against Aston Villa. Three days later, he started against Stoke. Three days later, he started against West Ham. Five days later, he started against Hull. Two days later, he started against Norwich. It's pretty much expected that he's going to look jaded and subdued, when you look at it like this. Ramsey, for example, picked up a thigh strain against West Ham and I'd argue that's because he had to play two games in three days.
Our midfield was really bad. Giggs was shocking. Carrick looked rusty. And Cleverley had his worst game since Newcastle at home, which wasn't even bad. One thing I will criticise him for is his tackling technique against Norwich. He lost out on challenges he should be winning.
Exactly. He had a poor game, but so did almost everyone else. Cleverley was nowhere near the 'worst' players today (Giggs and Evra take that one by a mile). In the last four or five games before today he's been impressive.
He's kind of excused today as he played the whole Hull-match and looked knackered.
Cleverley is this years Gibson (along with Fellaini). And I'm not referring to their ability.
In which case that is a very opaque post.Give us a clue.
Clearly you've not been on the forums long or been to old Trafford in the years Gibson was there.
Scapegoats.
Completely agree, his mentality is very poor.
Cleverley is an okay player, he's tidy on the ball and won't give it away too much. But he'll never take control of a game or take responsibility for creating something in a tight match. He shouldn't be anything more than a squad player at a club like United.
We've got too many players that are happy to let others drive the team on. We need more leaders on the pitch.
This issue has multiplied since SAF retired.
This issue has multiplied since SAF retired.
These definitive proclamations are always funny
You can't help yourself with Cleverley, I've noticed you before in this thread and you're continuously mental.Anyway, do you think he's good enough to be first choice at a club like United, a club with ambitions of winning the Champions League?
Decent squad player but it seems he's too worried about his passing percentage rather than creating anything.
I think he plays better with Jones or Fletcher than with Carrick.
...and in this case accurate.
He looked very tired which was understandable. However I still think he'll only be a squad player at best.
Will be sold
No he won't.
During the last stages he started drifting left for what? One touch side passes will be his downfall.
In 13 days he's played 5 games lasting the full 90 minutes in all of them against Villa, Stoke, West Ham, Hull and Norwich. He's been playing really well and whilst he wasn't spectacular yesterday he still played a decent game and he didn't hide like some of you are making out, only Carrick made more passes (and it was only 7 more than Tom). He did his part yesterday and is bound to be a little jaded because he's played full games every 2-3 days in the last two weeks, doing lots of running, passing and moving. Because of the injury to Jones Moyes can't afford to rest him because Fletcher has to be managed carefully and Carrick is just back from a long injury lay off. I thought what was making the difference to us as a team in the previous few games was Rooney's presence in midfield and that's what was missing yesterday because Kagawa was unfortunately ineffective in that role, not anything Cleverley did wrong. Give the lad a break. He might not ever be world class but the team and the midfield is down to its bare bones because of injuries to key players and since Newcastle he's playing his part. It's annoying to see so many writing him and Welbeck off as soon as they have a slightly below par game.
Or maybe this year's Darren Fletcher if you can remember his days as a whipping post.
I still genuinely think that he'd improve greatly with a partner that can pass and move with him.
He just loves to pass, move, pass, move and we just don't have a mobile midfielder to do it alongside him. Just looking at the stats for the West Ham game and he shared just 13 passes with Jones (7 J>C, 6 C>J). In the Hull game, Cleverley and Fletcher shared just 14 passes (10 F>C, 4 C>F) and the most in recent games was Giggs and Cleverley with 19 (11 C>G, 8G>C)
For someone who likes to play a short passing game, does this not striker anyone as being a bit low for a central midfield pairing?
I genuinely can not understand these type of arguments. It resembles that of Nani in a mesmerizing way.
If Tom Cleverley is good enough to maintain a midfield pairing for Manchester United, we would not be struggling in a fight for fourth place. I am not being unfair or overly critical but how in the feck can people argue otherwise? He is a lad who came through the ranks and broke into the first team - fantastic job for him! I read one comment above...
'To break through from reserves to first team at a club like United is incredibly hard and we have 3---- Evans, Cleverley, Wellbeck all who joined club at a young age. Its about time supporters were proud of them all instead of constantly trying to downgrade them as players.'
It has nothing got to do with being proud of him. We are football supporters and more importantly, we are fans of Manchester United. If United were to stand by Cleverley as a first team starter, we will almost definitely continue to struggle in games that we should not. I am Irish and a big fan of Wes Hoolihan. However, in no way should he be dominating a Manchester United midfield. I do not care what anybody says.
I know we are quickly building a reputation for sitting back and consolidating a one - nil lead in the dying minutes of a game but what is happening before can not be ignored. Tom is a player who gets himself around the pitch and to his credit - tries very hard. He, like Young, does not go out to fail. He is trying his best. I feel that his ability is not to scratch with what we need at United. He would do a great job for the likes of a mid-table side but for us, he will not be anything but a squad player. I do not say this in arrogance but in my opinion. I desperately hope he proves me wrong - I just can not see it.
How anybody on this site can argue that he deserves his place in the starting XI for us is bizarre. Forget the comments from our revered youth coach all those years ago - he has not lives up to the hope of potential that was bestowed upon him.
but is it really worthwhile in investing time/money in a partner for somebody who is not meeting the individual talent that is required to be in a United midfield?
If Tom Cleverley is good enough to maintain a midfield pairing for Manchester United, we would not be struggling in a fight for fourth place. I am not being unfair or overly critical but how in the feck can people argue otherwise? He is a lad who came through the ranks and broke into the first team - fantastic job for him! I read one comment above...
'To break through from reserves to first team at a club like United is incredibly hard and we have 3---- Evans, Cleverley, Wellbeck all who joined club at a young age. Its about time supporters were proud of them all instead of constantly trying to downgrade them as players.'
It has nothing got to do with being proud of him. We are football supporters and more importantly, we are fans of Manchester United. If United were to stand by Cleverley as a first team starter, we will almost definitely continue to struggle in games that we should not. I am Irish and a big fan of Wes Hoolihan. However, in no way should he be dominating a Manchester United midfield. I do not care what anybody says.
I know we are quickly building a reputation for sitting back and consolidating a one - nil lead in the dying minutes of a game but what is happening before can not be ignored. Tom is a player who gets himself around the pitch and to his credit - tries very hard. He, like Young, does not go out to fail. He is trying his best. I feel that his ability is not to scratch with what we need at United. He would do a great job for the likes of a mid-table side but for us, he will not be anything but a squad player. I do not say this in arrogance but in my opinion. I desperately hope he proves me wrong - I just can not see it.
How anybody on this site can argue that he deserves his place in the starting XI for us is bizarre. Forget the comments from our revered youth coach all those years ago - he has not lives up to the hope of potential that was bestowed upon him.
but is it really worthwhile in investing time/money in a partner for somebody who is not meeting the individual talent that is required to be in a United midfield?
I mean, to summarize this in the simplest of terms...
Why are we being continuously dominated by 'lesser' opponents?
Why are we being continuously dominated by 'lesser' opponents?
Yesterday it's because apart from Ashley Young (and Danny when he came on) no-one could hold the ball further up the pitch. It was horrendous. We had Kagawa/Giggs/Hernandez yesterday who didn't do anything at all in the first half.
That's a bizarre point seeing as we won the title last season with him in midfield last season.
It quite literally ignores seasons worth of evidence and has boiled thousands of different factors into "Tom Cleverley isn't good enough"
Correct answer. Unless the player is doped (like in particular club, where non-physical player can play 50+ games with no drop in performance), those close games would drain one's energy that lead to not capable of 100% performance. Then Carrick wasn't fit and misplaced passes too many for his own standard, also didn't help.
It's a real tricky one with Tom. Although I think he has a good amount of ability, his lack of willingness to receive the ball is frustrating.
There were a couple of times yesterday where there was literally no one in midfield. With 3 midfielders, how is that possible? It's an issue with everyone in the team, not just Cleverley, but I think he is the one that suffers the most.
He's the type of player who should be getting an incredible amount of touches of the ball. When he broke into the team, he played a more advanced role and was always wanting the ball, but it seems to have taken an opposite turn.
He'll never be good enough to start for a championship winning side in my honest opinion. The only way he can become a useful player for United is if he plays closer to the attacking players, and always looking for the ball short with constant movement off the ball, which is what he used to do.
There were a couple of times yesterday where there was literally no one in midfield. With 3 midfielders, how is that possible? It's an issue with everyone in the team, not just Cleverley, but I think he is the one that suffers the most.
He's the type of player who should be getting an incredible amount of touches of the ball. When he broke into the team, he played a more advanced role and was always wanting the ball, but it seems to have taken an opposite turn.
He'll never be good enough to start for a championship winning side in my honest opinion. The only way he can become a useful player for United is if he plays closer to the attacking players, and always looking for the ball short with constant movement off the ball, which is what he used to do.
He received the second most passes yesterday so it's untrue that he doesn't make himself available to receive the ball. He also had the second highest number of touches. He might not be perfect but he started for a side that won the league just last season. We obviously need to strengthen in midfield no-one is denying that, but Cleverley is a good option to have in there. We have looked at our best this season with Cleverley, Jones and Rooney in a midfield three. His role in that shouldn't be overlooked.
Long post, but I'm still not really sure what you're actually suggesting, so I cut it down to this sentence.
I'm sure 99% of posters don't think he should be in our strongest XI. He deserves to be 4th/5th choice, and deserves to start when those ahead of him of are injuried.
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