Toby Alderweireld

MagicKarpet said:
Arguably our best and most consistent player outside of Son and Sissoko, I'd say he's had a great season - obviously he was down compared to his previous seasons he was still one of our best players this year so for me he's been great, I mean I don't remember any major errors or many lapses in concentration but considering a lot of players have been below par this year he's done well.

I think despite him not signing a new contract he's remained professional, could have downed tools but seemed to have won the trust of Poch which is saying something as he normally doesn't have time for players who aren't fully commited.
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Eh, we straight up disagree then. I think he was fine this year, decent centre back but I'd have him nowhere near one of our best players of the season. I don't even think he was better than Vertonghen.

Then again, aside from Sissoko and Son I really don't think many of our players had great individual seasons anyway. I'd have Kane above Toby still (was still our top scorer/joint top scorer in CL) despite his injuries but yeah, a bunch of players under performed imo. So possibly Toby was up there with the most consistent performers but I still don't think he was outstanding.

Honestly I think Poch has trusted him because he has little choice. Foyth has been a walking time bomb and Sanchez's development has really stalled at the club, Toby despite possibly wanting out is clearly the best option other than Vert and Pochettino with the lack of transfers hasn't had too many options. He's obviously too good to just rot on the bench/reserves, and whilst I'm happy he's been a professional it does look like he wants out for his payday, and that being the case I'm happy for that to happen. I wouldn't want the club to be bullied in to an inflated contract for him at all.

But yeah, he's been good, I guess I'm just trying to say I wouldn't be overly bothered by his departure. I'm actually more disappointed by Sanchez not really stepping up this season, because after his first year at the club I had really high hopes that we had landed one of the best young centre backs around, but if anything he's declined since that.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Eh, we straight up disagree then. I think he was fine this year, decent centre back but I'd have him nowhere near one of our best players of the season. I don't even think he was better than Vertonghen.

Then again, aside from Sissoko and Son I really don't think many of our players had great individual seasons anyway. I'd have Kane above Toby still (was still our top scorer/joint top scorer in CL) despite his injuries but yeah, a bunch of players under performed imo. So possibly Toby was up there with the most consistent performers but I still don't think he was outstanding.

Honestly I think Poch has trusted him because he has little choice. Foyth has been a walking time bomb and Sanchez's development has really stalled at the club, Toby despite possibly wanting out is clearly the best option other than Vert and Pochettino with the lack of transfers hasn't had too many options. He's obviously too good to just rot on the bench/reserves, and whilst I'm happy he's been a professional it does look like he wants out for his payday, and that being the case I'm happy for that to happen. I wouldn't want the club to be bullied in to an inflated contract for him at all.

But yeah, he's been good, I guess I'm just trying to say I wouldn't be overly bothered by his departure. I'm actually more disappointed by Sanchez not really stepping up this season, because after his first year at the club I had really high hopes that we had landed one of the best young centre backs around, but if anything he's declined since that.
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Our best players were Son and Sissoko, what actually suggests that he is so far off them? He remained consistent along with Son and Sissoko so what separates him from those two? Can you recall any major errors?, or many lapses in concentration? Can you pin many mistakes on him for example?...So I don't really see why he's rated so far behind them...I mean give or take Verts was better than him but you're just splitting hairs really aren't you?

Poch has had plenty choice, he played Sanchez who was outstanding in his debut season in 17/18 when Toby was injured and to be honest he favoured Sanchez over Toby in that season even when he was fit anyway.

But regardless of all that I think I agree with you saying that I wouldn't be too bothered if he left providing he went abroad, he wouldn't be a player we'd majorly miss which sounds funny because I think between Sanchez, Dier and Foyth we can replace him, not worried about Sanchez personally, there's a trend of young players in this league always seem to decline in their 2nd or 3rd season in this league so I expect him to kick on next season especially if he's 1st choice.
 
Allow me to say I cannot slightly understand why you guys appear to be going hammer and tong for Harry Maguire and not Toby Alderweireld.

He has been one of the most consistent Premier League defenders over the past few seasons, is a World Cup semi-finalist and Champions League finalist from the last tournaments, and through this will provide chronically missing qualities such as experience, ability and leadership. Furthermore given age and injury record he is likely to remain in what history shows us is a centre back's prime for another four years, has a release clause meaning you can weaken a direct rival with minimal manpower diverted towards negotiating with them, and there doesn't even seem to be much competition for him from rival European clubs (yet) meaning you aren't likely to have to break the bank in order to tempt him away from his ~£80k/week Tottenham contract.

In short, for £25m he's about as surefire a guarantee of value for money you will ever find. Within the context of your overall needs why are you so desperate to spend £60m+ on a centre back this summer?
 
Tickle Lad said:
Allow me to say I cannot slightly understand why you guys appear to be going hammer and tong for Harry Maguire and not Toby Alderweireld.

He has been one of the most consistent Premier League defenders over the past few seasons, is a World Cup semi-finalist and Champions League finalist from the last tournaments, and through this will provide chronically missing qualities such as experience, ability and leadership. Furthermore given age and injury record he is likely to remain in what history shows us is a centre back's prime for another four years, has a release clause meaning you can weaken a direct rival with minimal manpower diverted towards negotiating with them, and there doesn't even seem to be much competition for him from rival European clubs (yet) meaning you aren't likely to have to break the bank in order to tempt him away from his ~£80k/week Tottenham contract.

In short, for £25m he's about as surefire a guarantee of value for money you will ever find. Within the context of your overall needs why are you so desperate to spend £60m+ on a centre back this summer?
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I'd be all in for Alderweireld but I suspect we aren't in for any central defender and it's just paper talk. We need a defender badly but I suspect the club are very happy with Smalling, Jones, Lindelof, Rojo, Bailly as hilariously horrific as that sounds.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I'd be all in for Alderweireld but I suspect we aren't in for any central defender and it's just paper talk. We need a defender badly but I suspect the club are very happy with Smalling, Jones, Lindelof, Rojo, Bailly as hilariously horrific as that sounds.
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A club serious about getting the best team out there would have cashed in on rojo and jones while bidding on toby to replace on position with his clause.
 
Tickle Lad said:
Allow me to say I cannot slightly understand why you guys appear to be going hammer and tong for Harry Maguire and not Toby Alderweireld.

He has been one of the most consistent Premier League defenders over the past few seasons, is a World Cup semi-finalist and Champions League finalist from the last tournaments, and through this will provide chronically missing qualities such as experience, ability and leadership. Furthermore given age and injury record he is likely to remain in what history shows us is a centre back's prime for another four years, has a release clause meaning you can weaken a direct rival with minimal manpower diverted towards negotiating with them, and there doesn't even seem to be much competition for him from rival European clubs (yet) meaning you aren't likely to have to break the bank in order to tempt him away from his ~£80k/week Tottenham contract.

In short, for £25m he's about as surefire a guarantee of value for money you will ever find. Within the context of your overall needs why are you so desperate to spend £60m+ on a centre back this summer?
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Looking for 200k + and a 4 years contract. Could be RVP or Sanchez.
 
I cannot find the story as quoted but it is believed that at this point Alderweireld simply is not willing to move. He can negotiate a free transfer in 6 months time which will mean a big signing bonus and inflated salary and so at this point he would only consider moving if he was essentially going to be paid like a free agent. I believe that is why we are not in for him and also why nobody else is in for him either, a player of his qualities for 25 million would seem to be a no brainer and the fact that not a single club is showing interest would suggest they already know they would be wasting their time.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I'd be all in for Alderweireld but I suspect we aren't in for any central defender and it's just paper talk. We need a defender badly but I suspect the club are very happy with Smalling, Jones, Lindelof, Rojo, Bailly as hilariously horrific as that sounds.
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Ole wanted 2 cbs this summer, looks like we will struggle to get 1.
Re Toby A, United’s new management team don’t rate him as highly as Mourinho did
 
Tickle Lad said:
Allow me to say I cannot slightly understand why you guys appear to be going hammer and tong for Harry Maguire and not Toby Alderweireld.

He has been one of the most consistent Premier League defenders over the past few seasons, is a World Cup semi-finalist and Champions League finalist from the last tournaments, and through this will provide chronically missing qualities such as experience, ability and leadership. Furthermore given age and injury record he is likely to remain in what history shows us is a centre back's prime for another four years, has a release clause meaning you can weaken a direct rival with minimal manpower diverted towards negotiating with them, and there doesn't even seem to be much competition for him from rival European clubs (yet) meaning you aren't likely to have to break the bank in order to tempt him away from his ~£80k/week Tottenham contract.

In short, for £25m he's about as surefire a guarantee of value for money you will ever find. Within the context of your overall needs why are you so desperate to spend £60m+ on a centre back this summer?
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I don't think Ed Woodward fancies him, or else we'd have wrapped up a deal last summer.
 
It has to be a case of certain people in power at United not thinking he is the right signing. I am pretty sure we could get him for £25m, a sign on fee of £5-10m and about £180k a week for 3+1 years. I would much prefer this option to Harry Maguire who would likely cost £80m and I would suspect get a deal haggled at about £200k a week for him on a 5-year contract. Toby still has at least two years where I reckon he'd be about as good as ever and those years will, in my opinion, be better quality than Maguire will ever get to in his career.

I've said this next part in a couple of other threads, but if we sign AWB for £50m and already have James for £15m, that is a huge percentage of our transfer budget gone. The most we have ever spent in a season is almost £180m, but the net spend was more like £138m. That seems so mad and untrue, especially in the current market, but that is the most we have ever spent. We had two seasons like this, one with LVG and one with Jose (£175m/£131m net & £178m/£138m net, respectively). Is Ole going to be the man to be given this expected war chest money of £250m+ for a single season that lots of us (myself included before I looked this up) keep saying? Even if Ole is given more than these guys, which would mean getting about £200m to spend but be expected to make back close to £40m~ in sales and we've blown £65m on two players so far, how do you think we can afford to buy the players that will be more important? Ie. The attacking players that will be the ones we need to win us games. Am I missing something or is fixing our defence going to suddenly mean our forwards become top class? We need better ones and they will come at a cost.

If we signed Maguire instead of Toby, that means we've spent £145m, leaving likely £55m~ to buy a midfielder and a forward. Of course, we could sell Lukaku or Sanchez to recoup some but it'd be cutting it very fine in terms of being able to afford good creative players and a goalscorer. If we really are going to roll with the same forwards as before and not add much in midfield, then maybe it's fair enough and they do OK, but I would seriously doubt it.

Long story short, this is why I think Toby is a better deal for us currently. He can plug the gap for a couple of years while we buy/develop a new CB at a budget cost for the quality he has. We'd have spent £90m to fix our defence and add an exciting young attacker instead of £145m, meaning we could have somewhere around half of our budget left to buy some real quality match winning level players. Just my two cents anyway.
 
bond19821982 said:
Looking for 200k + and a 4 years contract. Could be RVP or Sanchez.
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Surely a centre back represents less of a risk than an attacker? Has there ever been a previous example of a proven centre back moving within a league and failing?

Gandalf said:
I cannot find the story as quoted but it is believed that at this point Alderweireld simply is not willing to move. He can negotiate a free transfer in 6 months time which will mean a big signing bonus and inflated salary and so at this point he would only consider moving if he was essentially going to be paid like a free agent. I believe that is why we are not in for him and also why nobody else is in for him either, a player of his qualities for 25 million would seem to be a no brainer and the fact that not a single club is showing interest would suggest they already know they would be wasting their time.
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Plausible. But on the other hand next summer he will be 31, and won't necessarily be negotiating from the position of a regular starter in a Champions League finalist's team, particularly as logic dictates Pochettino will phase him out next season in favour of the next generation. It's all well and good making demands, but the market will decide what his wages should be as his next club will only have to beat the next highest offer, and due to his profile he may not be particularly attractive to today's elite clubs who seem to have both an abundance of cash and experienced centre backs like him but are desperately searching for the future generation of elite centre backs. And even if the story you cite is correct, and he was asking for £200k/week to leave now, would that necessarily be significantly more than Harry Maguire is asking for, given he is currently on even more than Alderweireld and has a more sought after profile (younger/HG)? We're still talking about significantly reduced expenditure.

Havak said:
It has to be a case of certain people in power at United not thinking he is the right signing. I am pretty sure we could get him for £25m, a sign on fee of £5-10m and about £180k a week for 3+1 years. I would much prefer this option to Harry Maguire who would likely cost £80m and I would suspect get a deal haggled at about £200k a week for him on a 5-year contract. Toby still has at least two years where I reckon he'd be about as good as ever and those years will, in my opinion, be better quality than Maguire will ever get to in his career.

I've said this next part in a couple of other threads, but if we sign AWB for £50m and already have James for £15m, that is a huge percentage of our transfer budget gone. The most we have ever spent in a season is almost £180m, but the net spend was more like £138m. That seems so mad and untrue, especially in the current market, but that is the most we have ever spent. We had two seasons like this, one with LVG and one with Jose (£175m/£131m net & £178m/£138m net, respectively). Is Ole going to be the man to be given this expected war chest money of £250m+ for a single season that lots of us (myself included before I looked this up) keep saying? Even if Ole is given more than these guys, which would mean getting about £200m to spend but be expected to make back close to £40m~ in sales and we've blown £65m on two players so far, how do you think we can afford to buy the players that will be more important? Ie. The attacking players that will be the ones we need to win us games. Am I missing something or is fixing our defence going to suddenly mean our forwards become top class? We need better ones and they will come at a cost.

If we signed Maguire instead of Toby, that means we've spent £145m, leaving likely £55m~ to buy a midfielder and a forward. Of course, we could sell Lukaku or Sanchez to recoup some but it'd be cutting it very fine in terms of being able to afford good creative players and a goalscorer. If we really are going to roll with the same forwards as before and not add much in midfield, then maybe it's fair enough and they do OK, but I would seriously doubt it.

Long story short, this is why I think Toby is a better deal for us currently. He can plug the gap for a couple of years while we buy/develop a new CB at a budget cost for the quality he has. We'd have spent £90m to fix our defence and add an exciting young attacker instead of £145m, meaning we could have somewhere around half of our budget left to buy some real quality match winning level players. Just my two cents anyway.
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Interesting read. From the outside your club's transfer strategy juxtaposes itself on a regular basis, like the strategist is slowly learning on the job. For example under Moyes it seemed to be a rigid focus on absolute stars, under Van Gaal it was adapted to be looser and whilst primarily being about shrewd value signings there were one or two exceptions of strange FM giddiness. Under Mourinho it was primarily about quality but supplemented by value, and now it appears to have swung to a whole new sphere, a rigid "Manchester United" way of buying young, ideally British players which I'm not sure ever really existed before tbqh.

In contrast at Leicester we have kept a consistent and fluid policy of simply meeting the needs of the squad at the time, which generally combines an experienced and stable defence with a young and energetic attack. So whilst this has meant our aging 15/16 squad has primarily been supplemented by young signings such as Maddison and Tielemans, where we have felt the need a Jonny Evans has been signed also.

At Manchester United I suspect there's now a lack of confience and trust in the recruitment system given past failures and criticisms, and this has manifested itself in a tightening of the strategy to be more rigid and failsafe this year. Therefore whilst Alderweireld should be your version of our Jonny Evans, not fitting into this rigid policy means you cannot make the exception to sign him.
 
Alderweireld available as from now with a 25 M release clause.
 
InLevyITrust said:
I think he will stay and go on a free myself, balls well and truly in his court, he could simply reject all contracts he was offered unless its a mind-blowing one.
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I think he'll stay too. Not many clubs in a better position than Spurs will want him (if any)
 
His ship has sailed. There are better options out there even if you need to pay more, cause he will come with a huge wage demand.
 
Alderweireld is one of the top 3 defenders in the PL.
He has been injury free for 15 months.
He has a good 4 seasons at the top level in him.
He has a release clause of 25 million.
He is miles better than anything we have currently.

Just get him.
 
I'd be going for him over Maguire every day of the week.

Structure the deal so it's a large signing on fee (£12m) but a reasonable salary (£120k p/w) for 3 years so it doesn't create the same unwanted precedent as £200k a week would.

You're then essentially paying half the fee and half the salary compared with the inferior Maguire.
 
arthurka said:
His ship has sailed. There are better options out there even if you need to pay more, cause he will come with a huge wage demand.
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Even if he had a 4 year contract on 200k per week. That would be 41 million + 25 million release clause. That would be 66 Million in total.

Maguire will be 80 million to buy + a 200k per week 5 year deal which is 52 Million. Total outlay for tree stump is 132 Million.
 
Thought one of PSG or Juve may go for him, since they want a CB and they like a cheap option. Seeing as Juve have probably won the De Ligt race, i would still be surprised to see him not move for 25m.

He is only 30, still good enough for another 2 or 3 years IMO.
 
finneh said:
I'd be going for him over Maguire every day of the week.

Structure the deal so it's a large signing on fee (£12m) but a reasonable salary (£120k p/w) for 3 years so it doesn't create the same unwanted precedent as £200k a week would.

You're then essentially paying half the fee and half the salary compared with the inferior Maguire.
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Problem is he could get at least double the signing on fee next summer.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Problem is he could get at least double the signing on fee next summer.
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I'm not so sure someone pays a £25m signing on fee to a 31 year old, even without a transfer fee. There's also a huge risk that a bad injury next season and he's gambled every cent of that signing on fee away and offers on the table are then closer to £100k than £200k.
 
Wheato said:
Even if he had a 4 year contract on 200k per week. That would be 41 million + 25 million release clause. That would be 66 Million in total.

Maguire will be 80 million to buy + a 200k per week 5 year deal which is 52 Million. Total outlay for tree stump is 132 Million.
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Makes me want City to pip us for Maguire
 
InLevyITrust said:
Problem is he could get at least double the signing on fee next summer.
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Exactly my thoughts.
He and his family are well settled, he is playing in the CL and can run his contract down to a FREE.
Next season, a decent club, possibly in Italy or Spain, will almost definitely offer him a £10m signing on fee in his back pocket.
 
Wheato said:
Alderweireld is one of the top 3 defenders in the PL.
He has been injury free for 15 months.
He has a good 4 seasons at the top level in him.
He has a release clause of 25 million.
He is miles better than anything we have currently.

Just get him.
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Logic.

People massively underrate him for some reason; he’s been the overall best central defender in the league for the past 5 years.

Signing him while keeping an eye on the development of Tuanzebe and Godfrey makes sense.
 
finneh said:
I'm not so sure someone pays a £25m signing on fee to a 31 year old, even without a transfer fee. There's also a huge risk that a bad injury next season and he's gambled every cent of that signing on fee away and offers on the table are then closer to £100k than £200k.
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I'm not saying he is right but IMO we would have offered him around £100k a week, plus bonuses 2 years ago so he has missed out on a fair wack already due to his reluctance to sign.
 
AP88 said:
Logic.

People massively underrate him for some reason; he’s been the overall best central defender in the league for the past 5 years.

Signing him while keeping an eye on the development of Tuanzebe and Godfrey makes sense.
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Toby isn't the best overall best central defender in the league, he isn't even the best CB at Spurs. VVD, Kompany, Vertonghen, Laporte are all superior to him IMO. The only CB I see getting underrated is Maguire on here.
 
InLevyITrust said:
I'm not saying he is right but IMO we would have offered him around £100k a week, plus bonuses 2 years ago so he has missed out on a fair wack already due to his reluctance to sign.
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True enough - although a £12m signing on fee this Summer would be triple the difference signing that contract would have made. Running down a contract to 12 months is far less risky than running it down to nothing. If he did his cruciate in May he'd still have a salary every week until he was fully recovered and back in the team. He does that next year and he faces a season without a club or a salary and the possibility of never playing at the top level again.
 
Wheato said:
Alderweireld is one of the top 3 defenders in the PL.
He has been injury free for 15 months.
He has a good 4 seasons at the top level in him.
He has a release clause of 25 million.
He is miles better than anything we have currently.

Just get him.
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And he might prefer to play in the CL.

Days when players just came to us no matter are long gone my friend.

Koulibally n Alderweireld probably don't want to play in the Europa League.
 
finneh said:
True enough - although a £12m signing on fee this Summer would be triple the difference signing that contract would have made. Running down a contract to 12 months is far less risky than running it down to nothing. If he did his cruciate in May he'd still have a salary every week until he was fully recovered and back in the team. He does that next year and he faces a season without a club or a salary and the possibility of never playing at the top level again.
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We will find out soon enough, I like the guy, top professional and player and hasn't thrown his toys out for not getting a move.
 
InLevyITrust said:
We will find out soon enough, I like the guy, top professional and player and hasn't thrown his toys out for not getting a move.
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True - the risk is of course lessoned if he has no great offers (£150k+ p/w) on the table this summer
 
finneh said:
True - the risk is of course lessoned if he has no great offers (£150k+ p/w) on the table this summer
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I honestly don't know where he would go for the wages he is looking, Juve look like they have bigger fish, United seem to prefer Maguire (good decision), PSG maybe? I don't see many other suiters.
 
AP88 said:
Logic.

People massively underrate him for some reason; he’s been the overall best central defender in the league for the past 5 years.

Signing him while keeping an eye on the development of Tuanzebe and Godfrey makes sense.
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Stop making sense, I’m not used to it in here.
 
InLevyITrust said:
I honestly don't know where he would go for the wages he is looking, Juve look like they have bigger fish, United seem to prefer Maguire (good decision), PSG maybe? I don't see many other suiters.
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I think he was nailed on to United this summer until Mourinho's sacking. Arsenal should also be all over him given their defensive frailties, assuming he'd cross the Sol Campbell line.

After that you're right in that there's very few options... Maybe he's happy with a final payday in China?
 
Woody doesnt fancy him and given our interest in Maguire it looks like we are not after a CB with Alderweirelds traits. He's not a powerhouse defender or a monster in the air, he is a ball playing CB that is comfortable with the ball at his feet. And can ping passes to switch play and start attacks. I agree I think mou rated him and wanted him but any desire to get Alderweireld evaporated with Mou's sacking.
 
Wheato said:
Alderweireld is one of the top 3 defenders in the PL.
He has been injury free for 15 months.
He has a good 4 seasons at the top level in him.
He has a release clause of 25 million.
He is miles better than anything we have currently.

Just get him.
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Too logical for United. :(
 
After Matic and especially Sanchez I don't think we'll be going near any 29/30 year old transfers for a long time.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
And he might prefer to play in the CL.

Days when players just came to us no matter are long gone my friend.

Koulibally n Alderweireld probably don't want to play in the Europa League.
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Europa league is for one season. And would he rather win a European title or win nowt in the CL? If you gave players the choice of a Europa league medal and nothing. What do you think they would pick? Yes, it's a set back not being in the CL. But all 3 domestic trophies and a European title is up for grabs, not to mention playing football for one of the biggest clubs in the world and earning 10 million a year in the process.
 
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