Toby Alderweireld

[Red_toad]

CB's like Ferdinand, Johnsen, Blanc, and even Pallister were all capable of playing out from the back, or steping up into midfield. It was actually a quality that Ferguson valued.

For a long time we had Scholes making it easy for our defenders to pass into the midfield. We lack that quality currently.

 

[Isotope]

CB's like Ferdinand, Johnsen, Blanc, and even Pallister were all capable of playing out from the back, or steping up into midfield. It was actually a quality that Ferguson valued.

Rio was famous for his long ball to nowhere. I never recalled him as the reason of our midfield and attack were so good.

You put Ferdinand in this team, we'd still a defensive team with disjointed midfield and attack in big games. Pogba would still be Pogba, and so are Sanchez and Lukaku. And Mourinho would still be Mourinho.

 

[haram]

People put too much thought into centrebacks who can play out from the back. Fergies teams didn’t always have it but could transition quickly due to having pace and movement in wide areas, with wingers and fullbacks who could support comfortably. The likes ok keane, Carrick and scholes regularly picked the ball up deep

The fullbacks are part of the problem as well. It’s not just about being able to pass it, it’s being able to work through a press. We cannot just rely on our CM’s to do that.

 

[MadDogg]

Rio was famous for his long ball to nowhere. I never recalled him as the reason of our midfield and attack were so good.

You put Ferdinand in this team, we'd still a defensive team with disjointed midfield and attack in big games. Pogba would still be Pogba, and so are Sanchez and Lukaku. And Mourinho would still be Mourinho.

Rio's distribution got worse as he got older. Early on he certainly helped play out of the back. Towards the end he resorted to the long-ball quite often, although he was still decent.

Vidic actually went the complete opposite way. Started off fairly average with the ball, but by the end of his time here he'd improved significantly. For their last couple of seasons Vidic was actually better than Rio at playing it out.

 

[Isotope]

Rio's distribution got worse as he got older. Early on he certainly helped play out of the back. Towards the end he resorted to the long-ball quite often, although he was still decent.

Vidic actually went the complete opposite way. Started off fairly average with the ball, but by the end of his time here he'd improved significantly. For their last couple of seasons Vidic was actually better than Rio at playing it out.

Still don't recall any of Vidic or Rio regularly pinging ball to our attackers. That's always the main job of midfielders, either Scholes or Carrick.

Our current problem is not about getting the ball from the backline to midfield. It's more about what the midifield and attack do with it, once they have it. You see other top teams, and compare them to ours. It is so overwhelmingly obvious the stark contrast between them and us. And centerback should be the last problem to be improved (after Gk).

Fix our attack, midfield, and fullbacks problems, then we can talk about centerback.

 

[Ephrem]

Still don't recall any of Vidic or Rio regularly pinging ball to our attackers. That's always the main job of midfielders, either Scholes or Carrick.

Our current problem is not about getting the ball from the backline to midfield. It's more about what the midifield and attack do with it, once they have it. You see other top teams, and compare them to ours. It is so overwhelmingly obvious the stark contrast between them and us. And centerback should be the last problem to be improved (after Gk).

Fix our attack, midfield, and fullbacks problems, then we can talk about centerback.

At least there are people who share my opinion. Lots of here are of the opinion that Jose is not attacking because of our CB's. Pretty funny right !

 

[roonster09]

Still don't recall any of Vidic or Rio regularly pinging ball to our attackers. That's always the main job of midfielders, either Scholes or Carrick.

Our current problem is not about getting the ball from the backline to midfield. It's more about what the midifield and attack do with it, once they have it. You see other top teams, and compare them to ours. It is so overwhelmingly obvious the stark contrast between them and us. And centerback should be the last problem to be improved (after Gk).

Fix our attack, midfield, and fullbacks problems, then we can talk about centerback.

Yeah, we had players like Carrick, Scholes, Giggs who could ping 40-50 yards passes with inch perfect precision, then we had Rooney who was very good at it. Scholes and Carrick stayed deeper and pinged the passes, any of our players who dropped deep had the ability to ping passes. Same can't be said about these players.

 

[golden_blunder]

Still don't recall any of Vidic or Rio regularly pinging ball to our attackers. That's always the main job of midfielders, either Scholes or Carrick.

Our current problem is not about getting the ball from the backline to midfield. It's more about what the midifield and attack do with it, once they have it. You see other top teams, and compare them to ours. It is so overwhelmingly obvious the stark contrast between them and us. And centerback should be the last problem to be improved (after Gk).

Fix our attack, midfield, and fullbacks problems, then we can talk about centerback.

I agree, as per my original post, sort the wide areas (fullback & wingers) first with pace and movement. Then we will see what our midfielders are really made off. At the minute it’s too slow and static so no options to open their passing up.

CB? I’d love a new Stam or Vidic if they are out there, or even TA because of his experience but for defensive reasons not passing ability

 

[haram]

I agree, as per my original post, sort the wide areas (fullback & wingers) first with pace and movement. Then we will see what our midfielders are really made off. At the minute it’s too slow and static so no options to open their passing up.

CB? I’d love a new Stam or Vidic if they are out there, or even TA because of his experience but for defensive reasons not passing ability

It’s not just about passing. It’s about taking the ball under pressure, the first touch, opening your body to be proactive in building play, willingness to take responsibilty on the ball.

Or, you can have a poor approach to receiving the ball and just hoof it because maybe Lukaku will win it.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Rio was famous for his long ball to nowhere. I never recalled him as the reason of our midfield and attack were so good.

You put Ferdinand in this team, we'd still a defensive team with disjointed midfield and attack in big games. Pogba would still be Pogba, and so are Sanchez and Lukaku. And Mourinho would still be Mourinho.

You'd still be you and I'd still be me. I didn't say that he was "the reason our midfield and attack were so good". I said he was "capable of playing out from the back, or stepping up into midfield." Also, he certainly was not "famous for his long ball to nowhere"... he was famous because he was one of the best central defenders of his generation. He was probably better on the ball than any of our current center backs, he just couldn't pass the ball like Scholes, Beckham, or Giggs. If a prime Rio was in this team he'd probably be our captain, he'd bring a fluency and stability to our defence that we could build our attacks upon. So Pogba, Sanchez, and Lukaku would probably all be afforded more freedom because Mourinho would have the team balance that he builds on.

 

[Litch]

This encapsulates the whole Jose debate...Style v substance. The ball playing CB joining up with midfield or hitting long passes, something that looks classy, stylish, progressive, attacking and also comes with risk. We've seen it with Stones, Luiz and others who have got found out. Doesn't sound very Jose to me?

Also, has the whole debate this season been the disjointed, inconsistent and lack of quality in our midfield and attack been a problem? I've watched many a game and our problem continues to be the quality to breakdown stubborn defensives. We don't have the same problem against the top teams who come to play where our defence have showed their quality....

 

[AP88]

This encapsulates the whole Jose debate...Style v substance. The ball playing CB joining up with midfield or hitting long passes, something that looks classy, stylish, progressive, attacking and also comes with risk. We've seen it with Stones, Luiz and others who have got found out. Doesn't sound very Jose to me?

Also, has the whole debate this season been the disjointed, inconsistent and lack of quality in our midfield and attack been a problem? I've watched many a game and our problem continues to be the quality to breakdown stubborn defensives. We don't have the same problem against the top teams who come to play where our defence have showed their quality....

Alderweireld is a far superior actual defender than Luiz or Stones though. Working with De Boer and then Simeone rounded his game perfectly. And a defender who can quickly transition the ball would assist in breaking down those teams that sit back, because the few opportunities to capitalise on any openings that occur could be exploited quickly and accurately from back to front.

 

[Litch]

Alderweireld is a far superior actual defender than Luiz or Stones though. Working with De Boer and then Simeone rounded his game perfectly. And a defender who can quickly transition the ball would assist in breaking down those teams that sit back, because the few opportunities to capitalise on any openings that occur could be exploited quickly and accurately from back to front.

Might be right but I honestly don't see that given the way Jose plays. I think what he wants his players to show more leadership and be more mentally strong, midfielders to create more chances and forwards to capitalise on the opportunities when they present themselves. I'm guessing giving the status and the amount of CB's we've got, there is no way we are signing another one which in fairness to those players, there's nothing to suggest we need to based on how Jose sets the team up. Our concerns this season is more about what happens in front of them.

 

[Isotope]

I agree, as per my original post, sort the wide areas (fullback & wingers) first with pace and movement. Then we will see what our midfielders are really made off. At the minute it’s too slow and static so no options to open their passing up.

CB? I’d love a new Stam or Vidic if they are out there, or even TA because of his experience but for defensive reasons not passing ability

Rio's distribution got worse as he got older. Early on he certainly helped play out of the back. Towards the end he resorted to the long-ball quite often, although he was still decent.

Vidic actually went the complete opposite way. Started off fairly average with the ball, but by the end of his time here he'd improved significantly. For their last couple of seasons Vidic was actually better than Rio at playing it out.

At least there are people who share my opinion. Lots of here are of the opinion that Jose is not attacking because of our CB's. Pretty funny right !

Yeh. Just like this game, I don't think Alderweireld would solve our midfield and attack problems. Having good centerback would help, but that would be an incorrect starting point to improve this team.

With a warchest 200-250m, spending the bulk of it on CB is borderline stupid, with blatantly obvious other areas needed to be improved. Unless it's involved free transfers.

EDIT: Thinking about it more, well spending on CB should be ok, if it is on the like of Varane; world class at such a young age.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

We’re hearing that it’s going to be La Liga with Barca probabilities, nothing concrete but from someone who has been right about a lot of stuff before.

 

[United Pro]

We’re hearing that it’s going to be La Liga with Barca probabilities, nothing concrete but from someone who has been right about a lot of stuff before.

Who's the source?

 

[davidmichael]

We’re hearing that it’s going to be La Liga with Barca probabilities, nothing concrete but from someone who has been right about a lot of stuff before.

Barca have Pique, Umtiti, Mina and Vermaelen already with talk of someone from the B team being promoted for next season. I don’t see Alderweireld going to Barca to be on the bench as he’s not going to play ahead of Pique and Umtiti plus Barca are just about to spend £100 million on Griezmann after spending £250+ million on Dembele, Coutinho and Mina.

 

[Sanche7]

Barca have Pique, Umtiti, Mina and Vermaelen already with talk of someone from the B team being promoted for next season. I don’t see Alderweireld going to Barca to be on the bench as he’s not going to play ahead of Pique and Umtiti plus Barca are just about to spend £100 million on Griezmann after spending £250+ million on Dembele, Coutinho and Mina.

Maybe they are selling Umtiti.

 

[Bubz27]

Replacement for Umtiti or partner?

Or a tactical switch. Pique, Umtiti and Toby would be a hell of a back 3.

3-4-3 with a midfield of Coutinho, Busquets, Rakitic and Paulinho (or someone else) with Messi, Suarez and Griezmann upfront.

 

[Sanche7]

Replacement for Umtiti or partner?

Or a tactical switch. Pique, Umtiti and Toby would be a hell of a back 3.

3-4-3 with a midfield of Coutinho, Busquets, Rakitic and Paulinho (or someone else) with Messi, Suarez and Griezmann upfront.

And no full backs? Plus Dembele permanently on the bench.
It feels like Barca are buying players for the sake of buying them if the links to Griezmann and Toby are true.

 

[Bubz27]

And no full backs? Plus Dembele permanently on the bench.
It feels like Barca are buying players for the sake of buying them if the links to Griezmann and Toby are true.

Umtiti and Toby spread out and play a bit wider, especially since they have so much of the ball anyway. Busquets drops deeper and that gives them numbers back anyway. It is very attacking, but having a wide midfielder instead of a winger on the right keeps them more compact.

Obviously that leaves Alba, Semedo, Roberto and Dembele on the sidelines.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Umtiti and Toby spread out and play a bit wider, especially since they have so much of the ball anyway. Busquets drops deeper and that gives them numbers back anyway. It is very attacking, but having a wide midfielder instead of a winger on the right keeps them more compact.

Obviously that leaves Alba, Semedo, Roberto and Dembele on the sidelines.

Yeah can't see it happening for that reason. Roberto has been magnificent in an unbeaten defence. If that really is what they want to do we should go for Roberto.

 

[Bubz27]

Yeah can't see it happening for that reason. Roberto has been magnificent in an unbeaten defence. If that really is what they want to do we should go for Roberto.

So if it's true, it's an Umtiti replacement or one of Pique, Toby or Umtiti is on the bench a lot next year.

 

[Adisa]

Maybe they are selling Umtiti.

Umtiti plays LCB. Alderweireld plays RCB .

 

[Darlington Padgett]

Barca have Pique, Umtiti, Mina and Vermaelen already with talk of someone from the B team being promoted for next season. I don’t see Alderweireld going to Barca to be on the bench as he’s not going to play ahead of Pique and Umtiti plus Barca are just about to spend £100 million on Griezmann after spending £250+ million on Dembele, Coutinho and Mina.

And they are loaning Mina cause they can't give him game time.

 

[Bubz27]

Umtiti plays LCB. Alderweireld plays RCB .

Pique?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Who's the source?

He’s just a guy that pops up with information who tends to be right most of the time, he doesn’t actually post much. He isn’t on twitter or anything, just passes on stuff on a Spirs forum I am on.

 

[Brophs]

Pique?

He just goes full time bantering the entire Madrid squad.

 

[automaticflare]

Still don't recall any of Vidic or Rio regularly pinging ball to our attackers. That's always the main job of midfielders, either Scholes or Carrick.

Our current problem is not about getting the ball from the backline to midfield. It's more about what the midifield and attack do with it, once they have it. You see other top teams, and compare them to ours. It is so overwhelmingly obvious the stark contrast between them and us. And centerback should be the last problem to be improved (after Gk).

Fix our attack, midfield, and fullbacks problems, then we can talk about centerback.

I completely disagree I think our passing from defense to midfield is always safe and usually allows 2 or 3 opposition players to get back behind the ball, reducing space making it harder for us to open teams up

 

[Bubz27]

He just goes full time bantering the entire Madrid squad.

I could do that...

 

[Isotope]

I completely disagree I think our passing from defense to midfield is always safe and usually allows 2 or 3 opposition players to get back behind the ball, reducing space making it harder for us to open teams up

United of old wasn't famous of counter attack because the ball playing CB. But it was our CM that could ping any passes, smart midfield play, and fast wingers/attackers followed through.

Spoiler

 

[charlenefan]

I completely disagree I think our passing from defense to midfield is always safe and usually allows 2 or 3 opposition players to get back behind the ball, reducing space making it harder for us to open teams up

Indeed it's always sideways, backwards, hoofed up field or knocked out for a throw with our defenders, absolute no ability to build from the back

 

[MikeKing]

Indeed it's always sideways, backwards, hoofed up field or knocked out for a throw with our defenders, absolute no ability to build from the back

They also do the diagonal pass to our midfielders. I think they are better when we play higher up the field, as both Bailly and Smalling can contribute offensively with winning a duel and then have the space to make an effective pass to start an attack or even counter. Duels won in the box can start counters if midfielders and attackers pick the ball up and transition quick. Won't it always be a lot of sideways passing when building the attack from deep? Unless the midfielders or attackers make themselves available for a pass in between the lines (which doesn't happen nearly enough), the defenders can't be expected to play long through-balls from deep?

Ideally we would play quicker counterattacking football with the way we set up, and if not then stay a bit higher up the pitch, which our defenders would be mostly fine with but i do think Alderweireld could be an interesting signing. I just wouldn't expect him to make any magic passes regularly to make our attack more fluid.

 

[Primativ]

Pretty sure we are selling him to Spain. I really can't see us selling to a rival in this league. I know we did with Walker but I don't think fullbacks are quite as important as CBs.

 

[Judas]

I’d say the exact opposite. Quality FB are a prized possession in modern football.

 

[James Peril]

Pretty sure we are selling him to Spain. I really can't see us selling to a rival in this league. I know we did with Walker but I don't think fullbacks are quite as important as CBs.

You could sell Kane to Chelsea tomorrow, Eriksen to Arsenal and Alli to Liverpool, and you would all still claim it was your decisions - Poch's decision, Levy's decision - and never the simple fact that a player wants to leave for a bigger club with higher chances of winning trophies, getting paid more by doing so. You don't decide where Alderweireld goes, you're not that kind of club. He goes wherever he wants to go if a bid is matched.

 

[Zoo]

 

[Cassidy]

Oooh yes please

 

[el3mel]

Surely if we get him it means one defender gonna be sold ? Rojo or Jones ?

 

[Adisa]

Yes.
Our defenders are a huge reason our attack is shit.