Not to be pedantic, but if Alderweireld is not only rusty but also unfit at the WC, surely Martinez can easily leave him on the bench and start with Vertonghen and Kompany at the back?
because i think we should sign someone who is 25/26 instead of him. if thats the standard you think is fine then thats up to you, but at Manchester United i would be expecting better to improve the squad, also the fact hes been out for a 3/4 months with a hamstring injury aint good either, we have enough players who get injured quite alot especially CB's.
Belgium always plays 3 in the back. Aderweireld - Kompany - Vertonghen, with Vermaelen as a backup. Alderweireld is key to the system.
It's his first big injury in his career. And he would easily be our best defender, miles ahead of the likes of Bailly and Lindelof. At 29 he could give us at least 3 more years.
Dont really matter if its the 1st big injury, its a hamstring injury which alot of time when it does goes it goes quite often and the older you get the harder it takes to keep getting back. no sure hes miles ahead of Bailley would complement each other well but having seen his performances in a lot of the big games for spurs not sure he would be as good a signing as people make out on here.
No it doesn't. Alderweireld was injured for 2 more games this season than Bailly, that's it. And he's not "older", he's 29!!! Defenders used to be considered at their peak at 30-33, until FM came along.
Anyways, I'll stop this discussion, you clearly don't rate him as much as I do, fair enough.
so what if he was injured for just 2 more games then Bailly, so what if hes 29, yes 15 years ago defenders prob did peak at around 30-33 but the games has got a lot faster now, look at the difference in just one season between Cahill at Chelsea for example.
Look, I don't want to go any further in this but look at Ramos (32), Chiellini (33), Godin (32), Piqué (31), Dani Alvas (35)... All perfect examples of defenders not good enough anymore because of the high pace of modern football? Marcelo, Hummels, Boateng... are all the same age as Alderweireld.
thats great but hes been poor this season the games he has played.
If he is the best defender in Europe, you can assure he is not going for 40. Personally I dont think he is that good. If he was better than all defenders in Real, Barca, City, Bayern, etc, they would all be fighting over him.Best defender in the league and potentially even Europe (yes, he’s that good) is available for around £40m - surely this will be a priority.
Like him a lot but have we been that poor at CB? Can't remember too many games the defence cost us games at CB especially as we've rarely played the same two there. I know he's not had a long history of injuries but it feels a little ironic to be potentially signing another CB who's just come back from being injured. Our bigger problem is going the other way......
Like him a lot but have we been that poor at CB? Can't remember too many games the defence cost us games at CB especially as we've rarely played the same two there. I know he's not had a long history of injuries but it feels a little ironic to be potentially signing another CB who's just come back from being injured. Our bigger problem is going the other way......
Transitions start from the back, and we’re pretty terrible at it imo. We also need or CB’s (at least one) to be much more comfortable joining in midfield when up against packed defences.
Having a player as good as Toby on the ball would be a big plus, as would ever getting Bailly healthy for a period of time.
Agree but that's not been a problem as such given the way we set up. Our midfielders play deep under Jose and I don't believe that's cause we don't have ball playing CB's. To do this would be a risk Jose wouldn't want to take. The problem with the transition is in midfield. We take too many touches and don't move the ball quick enough. Also the full backs who don't play high enough despite often having the insurance of two deep midfielders.....
Toby's a great addition but he'll look very different in our system.
If our defenders can play passes through lines and step into midfield, our midfielders don't need to be as deep, that's the point.
Our midfielders are deep cause that's how Jose sets them up. Ive seen nothing to suggest that Jose will want to change that as defensively we have been very good. The midfield continues to be the problem as we don't have a Carrick who does pass through the lines.....
Our play is also very narrow as the fullbacks rarely go beyond whoever is playing wide, and our attackers always look to come inside....
Our midfielders are deep cause that's how Jose sets them up. Ive seen nothing to suggest that Jose will want to change that as defensively we have been very good. The midfield continues to be the problem as we don't have a Carrick who does pass through the lines. Our play is also very narrow as the fullbacks rarely go beyond whoever is playing wide, and our attackers always look to come inside....
We need to be stronger in the build up and transitions. Jose has spoken about being aggressive between the lines before. Part of the reason why our lines are the way they are is because of the defence has deficiencies. Either way, playing through a press requires the defenders to be better on the ball. It's a problem away from home.
Dont agree at all. We have one of the best defensive records in the prem and you could argue that's why we are second. We have one of the worst cohesive midfields out of the top 4 teams. Up front is the same and with 2 games left of the season, we still don't know who's our best 3 as a unit YET we are talking about the deficiencies in defence? We haven't lost games because of not dealing with the press or playing through the lines from the back, we lost games because we lack imagination in the last third and don't have that outstanding player that does. Not a top team in the world who doesn't have that special player, but currently we do not.....
The fullbacks go beyond all the time in fairness. Part of the reason we lack width is our right midfielder is a hybrid 10 and our left back is a right footed winger.
And I disagree about Jose, he’s the manager that loved Carvalho after all and he was a top player that facilitated fast transitions and loved stepping into midfield.
Don't think they do in general play but only when we are chasing the game. Most of the games I've watched, the passing is in front of the opponents and we rarely get behind them. We generally really struggle to break teams down in the last third.
I agree about Carvalho but I think it was more about the player than the system. We also seen the disaster of Luiz at times too.
Like I said, I rate Toby but I struggle when there's talk of buying players that look good in a system I know we don't play especially when it's from teams that are attack minded.
Feel like I am talking to a wall...
Look at the top teams around Europe. Does their defence not contribute to their build up and to start attacks? This includes both their fullbacks and CB's. We cannot deal with a press at times because of our play from deeper areas... the defence is the deepest line... they are not great on the ball so we struggle as a team...
Does the passes and play on the ball not affect our midfield? If they have to drop deeper does the link to the attack not become more problematic? If the defender can play a pass through lines into midfielders who are higher up the pitch, are we not now more dangerous? If our defenders can step into midfield, does this not take opposition players out the game? Does it not offer another pass? Does this not all affect build up and our attacking play?
Can you expect to build play by hoofing it all the time? Yes at times we can use the long ball, but you need to mix it up. Our defence is not good enough. Us playing more defensively at times also helps them out. Lets not pretend Valencia and Young are not our fullbacks.
Leave the arrogance elsewhere as I'm sure you didn't invent football or are not the barometer of how to play it. All you are stating is an opinion of which I don't agree with. Too broad brush to compare the long list of anomalies when taking about 'top teams'.
I understand the arguments you make but my point remains the same which is based on fact. We have one of the best defensive records in the league. We can all give our armchair opinion of how we should/could play but it counts for nothing in how Jose has set his teams up whether we like it or not. It's just my opinion and nothing else but generally I can't remember too many defensive errors this season, but I can remember and number of games that we got to the edge of the opponents box, and ran out of ideas. Getting there was never a problem......
How can you expect to play such a game with defenders who are not good enough on the ball? You are setting them up to fail. The idea is that you buy players who are better on the ball so you can build play better.
Ever thought that Jose doesn't want them to build the play up?
The point is Jose cannot really change how our defence approaches build up because they do not have the quality... buying players who are better on the ball means we can change our approach. If we ask the defence to be more aggresive with their passing or play higher up they’d get exposed. The fact that they may sit deeper and not contribute enough to the build up does hinder our attacking play though.
If Jose asks our defenders to start stepping into midfield and play passes through lines you would see more mistakes. If they were successful with such things though it would help our attack. If we keep the defence the same we cannot evolve our attacking play.
Why would he not want them to do that? That post makes no sense. The ball will always be in deep areas throughout the game. Despite what people think, he did not just spend his career telling his defenders to hoof it up the pitch at every opportunity.
There is nothing wrong with the long ball when it is on. Top teams still need to be able to build play though. He has managed top teams and is a top manager. The suggestion that he does not want his defenders involved in build up is just ludicrous and makes no sense. They have to be involved in buildup one way or another.
You are missing one big point. This is what you think it needs but everything else would suggest differently. I'm not suggesting the defense can't be upgraded, I'm just saying I can't see him playing differently on how he's sets his teams up. That's not just my view, isn't that why fans, ex players and tv pundits don't generally like him cause he's defensive minded?
Jose is a defensively minded coach who wins games through not conceding. The Utd defenders are involved in the build up play as DDG doesn't just hoof the goal kicks, they are just not to the extent as you are suggesting. Jose likes to keep his defensive shape and thinks this gives thoughs in front of them the license to play. I'd argue we lack in imagination or creativity in areas. I think we also isolate Rom at times.....
You think if he was given Real Madrid’s defence our transitions and play into midfield would be the same? Their is a gulf of quality of our defenders on the ball. This is including the fullbacks. There would be another level of aggressiveness and license to play through lines if we had Real’s defenders.
You think if he was given Real Madrid’s defence our transitions and play into midfield would be the same? Their is a gulf of quality of our defenders on the ball. This is including the fullbacks. There would be another level of aggressiveness and license to play through lines if we had Real’s defenders.
Jose is a coach that understands the base of the team is a defence. The ball starts with the defence, the defence protects the goal. If your defence is exposed you cannot win titles consistently. He is not naive enough to think the defenders do not need to be involved in the build up at all.
Real have been defensively poor though? Most would argue that they have been very lucky to get to the final and didn't they come second in their group? Think you'll find he had his critics there too. That said, any team that has that offensive talent, hides many of there defensive shortcomings. I think City and Liverpool have been successful in that way as you wouldn't describe either defence as world class, yet one has broken all kinds of records and the other is in CL final....
I remember Jose saying in the past that you defend from the front. That works the other way, you can attack from the back. The ball distribution from some of our players is atrocious at the back. Smalling is a huge culprit, he seems to pass it to De Gea more than Matic and Pogba, in some case's just hits it out of play. It's possible that some of this is down tactics and midfielders/full back's no making themselves available. In my opinion it's lacking quality to drive the team forward. You can't underestimate the importance of transition from defense to attack. This starts with our CB's, it doesn't mean they constantly need to have the ball. It does means when they do, they must help that transition with good forward passing with tempo, keeping the play positive. Toby would be a fantastic addition if he was available. His injuries are a concern but he has leadership qualities we are sorely missing. I mean with wanting the ball and adding bravery and bite to our game. Instead of poor nervous play with the defender's passing on the responsibility instead of taking it.Ever thought that Jose doesn't want them to build the play up?
Learned something new, that our non-existence and disjointed midfield and attack were steamed from CBs that can't ping forward passes. The thought is if we have van Dijk at the back, we will turn into Liverpool, playing attacking football; with forwards scoring for fun.
Ever thought that Jose doesn't want them to build the play up?
Didn't say they weren't, just not in the way you described. The way you described the buildup play is so not Jose. That's not to say it's not important but maybe more so if we were playing 3 at the back....
Learned something new, that our non-existence and disjointed midfield and attack were steamed from CBs that can't ping forward passes. The thought is if we have van Dijk at the back, we will turn into Liverpool, playing attacking football; with forwards scoring for fun.
People put too much thought into centrebacks who can play out from the back. Fergies teams didn’t always have it but could transition quickly due to having pace and movement in wide areas, with wingers and fullbacks who could support comfortably. The likes ok keane, Carrick and scholes regularly picked the ball up deep
People put too much thought into centrebacks who can play out from the back. Fergies teams didn’t always have it but could transition quickly due to having pace and movement in wide areas, with wingers and fullbacks who could support comfortably. The likes ok keane, Carrick and scholes regularly picked the ball up deep
