Let's be honest no one wanted to pay the fee otherwise he'd have left a while ago. Not a bad thing for you, he's a good player, just don't think he's much above that really. That said he's looking better value than Havertz by a long way. Looks like you've paid double his current worth.
Toaster Toes Timo Werner | Tottenham Player
- Thread starter Damien
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Let's be honest no one wanted to pay the fee otherwise he'd have left a while ago. Not a bad thing for you, he's a good player, just don't think he's much above that really. That said he's looking better value than Havertz by a long way. Looks like you've paid double his current worth.
You responded to someone making a factual, numbers-based point with a singular anecdote. That's exactly what you were doing.
He's not a winger, in the same way Rashford isn't a winger either. They play on the left side of the attack but they're definitely not wingers, they're inside forwards if anything.
Played rw for most of yesterdays game.
Hes been all over the place.
Then proceeded to highlight that Werner's performances have gone from being based around his brilliant expected goals rate/chance conversion to expected goals/chance conversion and assists/chances created, or did you skip that bit?
Exactly this.
Chelsea don't play with Wingers as such, just as United don't, Ziyech is probably the closest to a winger that Chelsea have.
Werner plays off the channels, regularly dropping into the middle, in fact I'd say Rashford plays like more of a winger than Werner.
Chelsea will have a massive decision to make if they get all their attackers fit, first choice for that left wing has to be Pulisic, first choice for the right has to be Ziyech so then you're shoehorning Werner into the number 9 position where Giroud is still the best option
Of course the likelihood of Pulisic ever being fit for more than a couple of months is slim so can't fault Chelsea for having options
Of course the likelihood of Pulisic ever being fit for more than a couple of months is slim so can't fault Chelsea for having options
Yeah, Martial is still betterer!
At the moment he looks like a 99p shop version of Vardy.
Having said that, I kind of like him because he's a real trier and doesn't hide away after missing sitters.
Having said that, I kind of like him because he's a real trier and doesn't hide away after missing sitters.
He's certainly showed a level last season Werner has never hit. Been shocking this season though.
Werner got more goals last season.
He’s going to be a cracking player for them.
Not so sure about Havertz, Ziyech and Pulisic though. Too early to tell of course. But Werner is the one with most potential imo.
Not so sure about Havertz, Ziyech and Pulisic though. Too early to tell of course. But Werner is the one with most potential imo.
Ah yes because goals are everything. That makes Lukaku world class and he’s not.
Which is why I didn't understand them signing Havertz as well alongside Werner. Signing Havertz would mean playing with 3 in midfield, as Havertz doesn't fit into the 2 man midfield set up and Werner has never been comfortable as a single striker.
It wasn't rocket science to predict he would struggle in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 as a striker, he's never been at his best in that system. His strength has always been alongside a taller, old school striker. In that sense a strike partnership of Abraham-Werner or Giroud-Werner would be perfect, but that would mean moving outside of Frank's favoured 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.
Either Frank never intended for Werner to be his striker and viewed him more as a versatile wing forward/striker who can be part of the rotation and not a first XI member, or he gravely miscalculated his ability as a lone striker.
You saw his goals against Southampton?
Oh and by the way, Lukaku is one of the best strikers in the world. And he's not the donkey United fans like suggesting he is. His recent match against Gladbach e. g. was fecking brillant.
Yeh doesn’t change much. Said by someone who didn’t watch him week in week out for 2 seasons. Lukaku is the worst starting striker I’ve seen at the club.
No offense, but you don't come across a someone who watches a lot of football his favorite club aside. Your opinions on the two players don't really have a factual basis. Think you should broaden your horizon a bit.
Werner's season last year was comfortably better than any Martial has ever had. It's not even a debate.
One can argue that Martial has more potential than Werner, but his performances yet aren't near what Werner has shown throughout his career.
Who has watched more of Lukaku me or you?
He has, at least Martial is trying to transition into being a 9 and has shown success with it. Timo is very limited in that way. Hes like a poor mans Rashford
True. Have never seen Martial make a goal line clearance from underneath the opposition goal.
Martial played at a level at the back end of last season that Werner has never achieved. I firmly believe that. The current form of Martial has clouded the current narrative but he was unplayable at times last season and he combined it all with hold up play, technical dribbling and goals. Werner may well have scored more goals but he doesn’t have the same technical ability that Martial possesses.
This season though Martial has been poor and Werner has been better than him so that’s bound to impact perception.
Don't waste your time with that poster. His entire purpose of being on this forum is just to wum every single set of posters.
Oh I know and he always does so in a distinctly condescending manor. Thankfully I know that anyone who thinks Lukaku is world class is clueless.
Werner has scored more goals than Martial in his career, whether it be in the 'shit' BL or national teams. So if Werner is limited as a striker than I fear what Martial is.
True. Have never seen Martial make a goal line clearance from underneath the opposition goal.
True, you should've seen his missed versus Lyon last season in the UCL
Yes, he was unplayable for some parts of his career. But that's the point, it's only parts. Balotelli was unplayable in some parts of his career, so to Quaresma and Hatem Ben Arfa. The point is that they weren't able to do it consistently and therefore fizzled out.
I said earlier than Martial has more potential, he has potential to be one of the best forwards in the world. Currently he is no where near that and certainly not as good as Werner.
Staring at a wall doesn't make you a mason. Especially not if you keep watching the same brick all the time. Lukaku is doing better at Inter than he did at United. You'd know that if you actually bothered leaving your comfort zone.
Not my fault you interpret differing opinions as wumming. If I would wum you, you'd know it, trust me.
You don't seem to be particularly good at this knowing thing, you know.
Right so what you are saying is that my opinion is wrong even though I have seen far more of the player in a harder league and at a higher level than he's playing now? But of course you've watched him a couple of times at Milan, seen his stats and now he's world class... I know you are an awful poster? How's that?
I think it's mostly only United fans that will say Martial is better than Werner tbh
I mean this is the same silly argument people were using when we were about to sign Bruno. Look how that ended.
Anyway, it's way too early to judge give him the season to settle into the PL then see how he goes. Imo he hasn't had a bad start at all.
All round striker isnt measured by simply goals. Not in today's football.Werner has scored more goals than Martial in his career, whether it be in the 'shit' BL or national teams. So if Werner is limited as a striker than I fear what Martial is.
True, you should've seen his missed versus Lyon last season in the UCL
Yes, he was unplayable for some parts of his career. But that's the point, it's only parts. Balotelli was unplayable in some parts of his career, so to Quaresma and Hatem Ben Arfa. The point is that they weren't able to do it consistently and therefore fizzled out.
I said earlier than Martial has more potential, he has potential to be one of the best forwards in the world. Currently he is no where near that and certainly not as good as Werner.
Werner hasnt go it to play through the middle. Hes as much as a striker as Rashford or Mane is.
No, you've seen a player under a very specific set of conditions that are by no means representative of his career and don't even consider that he might do differently in another environment. What would you say if Juventus fans argued Henry is a shit player because he didn't perform in Turin? Or if Chelsea fans said similar things about Shevchenko?
If you had a certain level of self reflection you'd understand that you don't have a holistic perspective of the player and at least consider the possibility that your impression might change if you had gathered more information on him. Right now you're ignorant and proud of it.
I mean there's a lot of arguments that Martial isn't a no.9
According to transfermarkt, Werner has played 213 games as a striker and 9 games as a second striker. That's 76% of his professional matches. Rashford played 100 games as a striker and 8 games as a second striker, equaling roughly 44,4% of his professional matches. Sadio Mane has 19 games as a second striker, 11 games as a striker out of a total 345 (8.7%).
I think he showed he can play it last season, there is quality there.
Feck knows whats happened this season though.
Again though you don't actually know that. I have seen loads of Lukaku in the Premier League both at Utd but also previously at West Brom, Everton and Chelsea as well as some select Inter games (Europa final etc) so I'm not sure why you keep saying I don't know the player. I know exactly what kind of player he is which is why I never wanted him anywhere near Utd because frankly he's never been good enough. He's done okay at Inter Milan but one; its a level below Man Utd in terms of ambition and pressure and two; it's a lower standard of league by a fairly large margin. He deserves credit for adjusting to his role at Inter Milan, but frankly, he's the same player he's always been; a decent yet not outstanding goalscorer who has average/poor technique and a fragile mentality which means he's never been good enough for the top-level (and thus cannot ever be world class!).
Anyway, we are taking this thread off-topic but my overall point is you seem very fast to waltz in here saying I lack self reflection and haven't seen enough of his game when really you don't have any idea of that and in fact its very likely I've seen much more of Lukaku as a player due to the fact he played for my team for a number of years.
He`s doing sort of as I expected. Not fantastic, but not a flop either. The recent big misses are most likely statistical outliers but I also don`t think he has the quality to make a big difference on the level Chelsea are aiming for. Solid league striker that thrives in counter attacking settings, nothing more. Worth 50m? I don`t really think so.
See. Lukaku is by no means the type of striker I like. If I was to assemble a squad, Lukaku would be far away fro being considered - now, during his United time and before that. However, looking past preferences, one has to admit he's doing great at Inter and he's had games in which he proved his technique is excellent. Just watch his highlights of last weeks match vs. Inter - and it's not his first game like that. There's no way a striker pulling off such dribbles and first touch passes has a weak technique. Simple as that. He might have done bad at United and his touches might not have been as good as they are currently for Milan but that doesn't change what he's showing right at the moment.
And the same goes for Werner. Arguing a player that scored those two stunners against Southampton just a few weeks ago is nothing but a pace merchant is just ridiculous. It comes across as if you've already made your opinion and just ignore evidence to the contrary.