Timothy Fosu-Mensah image 24

Timothy Fosu-Mensah Netherlands flag

2016-17 Performances

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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
11
Clean sheets
7
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
1
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Special_One said:
That's not a question for me to answer.



19 is a kid in any walk of life, mate. There are 18 year old who don't play regular football, stupid point. Reserve football isn't as valuable because often times you play once a month and the games aren't competitive.

I've cited Rashford and Pereira by saying that if they TRAIN with the first team, the don't PLAY for the reserves, if you'd have read it properly. Also, I meant Joel Pereira, who has 10 minutes of first-team action at United this season.



Rashford in U23 years of age, yet trains with the first team and doesn't play with the reserves. JOEL Pereira, has 10 minutes of game time and doesn't play for the reserves if involved in first team training.

How isn't he? It's not like he won't develop training with top class players, coaches and facilities. Naive to think otherwise.



Again, not for me to answer, it's Mourinho's way of doing things.
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Reserve football isn't as valuable as no football at all?

Joel Pereira doesn't work as an example at all. He has played for the u23s while training with the first team and even played for the u23s the very next day after getting those 10 minutes with the first team.
And Rashford is a regular for the first team. What kind of example is that?
 
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Mike09 said:
Playing with U23 won't make any difference with what Fosu Mensah is doing right now. What he's going to achieve by playing with U23?
Experience for playing in a non professional football match? Why do player need to gain that to go to next level? The feeling is obviously different playing with U23 and first team.
Managers tend to use U23 just for match fitness so the players is ready to play at least above 60 mins. First team training especially in the middle of the season is harder than playing games for U23 level that is not even in professional or serious match.
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And TFM doesn't need that match fitness? Of course it will make a difference gettting experience at any level will help and it's not like reserve football is a cake walk for him and there are some very competitive games even if you don't want to call it professional. We are near the bottom of the table needing wins and the games are taken seriously. Recent game against Southampton had Caceres, Hojberg, and Reed to name a few, all first team footballers. Going up against that midfield would be great experience. Week before Sunderland had Gooch and Kirchhoff. Again two first team players he could get experience against in still competitive matches. Whether called professional or not. So yes he could learn some things there and it would be a good experience.

Couple years ago we came up against Dembele and Bentaleb and it was a great match and experience for the likes of Pearson and Rothwell.
 
limerickcitykid said:
And TFM doesn't need that match fitness? Of course it will make a difference gettting experience at any level will help and it's not like reserve football is a cake walk for him and there are some very competitive games even if you don't want to call it professional. We are near the bottom of the table needing wins and the games are taken seriously. Recent game against Southampton had Caceres, Hojberg, and Reed to name a few, all first team footballers. Going up against that midfield would be great experience. Week before Sunderland had Gooch and Kirchhoff. Again two first team players he could get experience against in still competitive matches. Whether called professional or not. So yes he could learn some things there and it would be a good experience.
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Match fitness in U23 level is different with match fitness in professional level.
Players who got long period of injury would have miss both training session and professional match. When they come back to the first team training, they won't be able to keep up with the first team training especially during middle of season so they get light training first and then play with U23 level. Fosu Mensah has been training with first team and rarely miss so I doubt he needs more "U23 level match fitness''.

It won't make any difference getting experience! professional match will affect player's mentally attributes. Players can get panics, make poor decision making, being under pressure, different understanding of tactical management, being affected by media and the crowds. Experience in U23 level is nothing compared to first team level because they play in non professional competition. It's only one step ahead of U18. But compare to professional level, it's massive difference. It's a serious competition vs non-serious competition.

Watching top players play and train with them can also learn some things. You can improved your technical attributes via U23 and training but not mentally.
 
Special_One said:
19 is a kid in any walk of life, mate. There are 18 year old who don't play regular football, stupid point. Reserve football isn't as valuable because often times you play once a month and the games aren't competitive.

I've cited Rashford and Pereira by saying that if they TRAIN with the first team, the don't PLAY for the reserves, if you'd have read it properly. Also, I meant Joel Pereira, who has 10 minutes of first-team action at United this season.
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Before you call posters points stupid, get your facts right.

How many 18 year olds at top clubs do you know that don't play regular football? Why does Rashford need to be playing in the reserves when he is getting game time with the first team? Pereira has only had 10 minutes with our first team but you didn't know that he had a full half season of competitive football on loan before he returned. Btw, he's out of the season. Yet again, your point has nothing to do with TFM.

Get your facts together.
 
Mike09 said:
Match fitness in U23 level is different with match fitness in professional level.
Players who got long period of injury would have miss both training session and professional match. When they come back to the first team training, they won't be able to keep up with the first team training especially during middle of season so they get light training first and then play with U23 level. Fosu Mensah has been training with first team and rarely miss so I doubt he needs more "U23 level match fitness''.

It won't make any difference getting experience! professional match will affect player's mentally attributes. Players can get panics, make poor decision making, being under pressure, different understanding of tactical management, being affected by media and the crowds. Experience in U23 level is nothing compared to first team level because they play in non professional competition. It's only one step ahead of U18. But compare to professional level, it's massive difference. It's a serious competition vs non-serious competition.

Watching top players play and train with them can also learn some things. You can improved your technical attributes via U23 and training but not mentally.
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Match fitness is match fitness and yes he does need it. I'm not saying it is anything compared to first team football but he isn't getting any of that. It is certainly comparable to a first team training session and imo likely much more intense however much you want to say it is non serious. There are players playing for their careers and they are taking it more than serious.
Yes he can learn from training with the first team I have never said he can't or said he shouldn't train with them, of course he should. He just needs to play games too.
Like I've just mentioned opponents field premier league regulars who will offer great experience to play against. It is a huge step up from u18, and yes senior football is another huge step up. But clearly there isn't any senior football available for him to play so u23 is the next best thing.
Players get panicked and make mistakes in the u23s too. Tuanzebe has done just that recently. TFM isn't above making mistakes in the u23s. The managers use tactics too. Joyce has been praised by many players for developing them tactically and getting them ready for senior football. If actuality used properly Mourinho should be at all u23 matches and watching them and using those performances to reward players like TFM, adding that extra pressure.
Do you actually watch u23 football? There are many problems with the setup in England but there are still competitive games and experience and lessons to be gained from it.
 
It's almost like people think all these wonderkids we are all dreaming about from other clubs didn't play reserve football.
 
What kind of player is this guy? Which player in style is he comparable to?
 
limerickcitykid said:
Reserve football isn't as valuable as no football at all?

Joel Pereira doesn't work as an example at all. He has played for the u23s while training with the first team and even played for the u23s the very next day after getting those 10 minutes with the first team.
And Rashford is a regular for the first team. What kind of example is that?
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First team training for top club is arguably more demanding, since you're doing a real job being partner/ opponent with player who make it in match day squad. Here top level who can still within catching distance to finish up to 2nd in the league. First team players without making matchday squad are still required to be professional & fulfill tactical assignment in training. You have players from lower intense leagues come into PL & got shocked just by intensity of first team training alone. Here the guy is given chance to learn, and if he keeps his head level, even if he needs to go on loan next season, he's learning thing that he can apply in long run that can help him: be top professional. This mat prove to boost his chance to succeed in getting a starting place in his loan club. Arguably in the past we did it wrong by making it easy for some players. They thought they made it & got this wrong attitude in their head even when coming out on loan to other clubs. This hinders them to get their playing time, which is a real useful first team playing experience. Talent is one thing. Applying your talent with right work ethnic is another. The latter also needs a lot of work as it's not natural gift, but learnt through experience, self sacrifice & discipline

The problem with U23 is you can hack through it with physical superiority or raw talent or instinct. Tactically, you don't learn enough as you can always go the easy way & get it done. At times the opponents even make enough mistakes on their own & gift you the advantage. Losing & winning is less important. At top level, the margin of error is very small. First team training is the closest you can get the chance to learn while still allowed to leeway away from the media to correct your mistake. I am talking about U23 league system here in England. Other countries, the league B teams participate are tougher, yet arguably it's not even as young players ain't still pushed enough but still a young player who go out of their way to showboat their talent.

A little different, but Brazil used to bring their next big talents to WC even if they couldn't be afforded a minute so that they could experience being with the team, understand the pressure, expectation where every step of the team is followed closely...
 
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ti vu said:
First team training for top club is arguably more demanding, since you're doing a real job being partner/ opponent with player who make it in match day squad. Here top level who can still within catching distance to finish up to 2nd in the league. First team players without making matchday squad are still required to be professional & fulfill tactical assignment in training. You have players from lower intense leagues come into PL & got shocked just by intensity of first team training alone. Here the guy is given chance to learn, and if he keeps his head level, even if he needs to go on loan next season, he's learning thing that he can apply in long run that can help him: be top professional. This mat prove to boost his chance to succeed in getting a starting place in his loan club. Arguably in the past we did it wrong by making it easy for some players. They thought they made it & got this wrong attitude in their head even when coming out on loan to other clubs. This hinders them to get their playing time, which is a real useful first team playing experience. Talent is one thing. Applying your talent with right work ethnic is another. The latter also needs a lot of work as it's not natural gift, but learnt through experience, self sacrifice & discipline

The problem with U23 is you can hack through it with physical superiority or raw talent or instinct. Tactically, you don't learn enough as you can always go the easy way & get it done. At times the opponents even make enough mistakes on their own & gift you the advantage. Losing & winning is less important. At top level, the margin of error is very small. First team training is the closest you can get the chance to learn while still allowed to leeway away from the media to correct your mistake. I am talking about U23 league system here in England. Other countries, the league B teams participate are tougher, yet arguably it's not even as young players ain't still pushed enough but still a young player who go out of their way to showboat their talent.

A little different, but Brazil used to bring their next big talents to WC even if they couldn't be afforded a minute so that they could experience being with the team, understand the pressure, expectation where every step of the team is followed closely...
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Nobbody is saying first team training isn't demanding or crucial. He can do both training with the first team and play with the U23s, maybe only occasionally. In fact every other club does that with their young players in the first team fringe, except for us this season. Southampton played McQueen and Sims in their last U23s games against us. We can clearly see how lack of match sharpness and confidence TFM is in his first team cameos this season.
 
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Sammyjunn said:
Way way faster, better going forward and a better passer, but not as composed as Jones was at that age.
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He's not better going forward. When Jones played RB at the start of his United career he was regularly causing havoc with his constant runs and dribbling. He's faster but that's pretty much it.
 
Akash said:
He's not better going forward. When Jones played RB at the start of his United career he was regularly causing havoc with his constant runs and dribbling. He's faster but that's pretty much it.
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He is, every time he's played he has been pretty good going forwards, even getting at the end of chances only that he cant shoot at at all. Think he assisted vs Everton too. Jones is more like Shaw going forward, bombs forward with his strength and hence difficult to get off the ball, but the dribbling, skill, passing, crossing is very very limited.
 
OldTrevil said:
He hasn't given him games there. TFM has been playing as RB this season, IIRC he got only one chance as a midfielder and was all over the place. Mourinho said he didn't have any midfielders on the bench after the Boro game when TFM was on it.
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Yes that's my point some people here say he should be getting games in midfield when it's clear to me Jose doesn't consider him a midfielder so there's no point playing him there
 
Cascarino said:
What kind of player is this guy? Which player in style is he comparable to?
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He is an absolute tank, pace strength and in particular acceleration to burn but needs a lot of work with his on the ball play. First name that pops to mind is Bakayoko from Monaco.
 
Sammyjunn said:
He is, every time he's played he has been pretty good going forwards, even getting at the end of chances only that he cant shoot at at all. Think he assisted vs Everton too. Jones is more like Shaw going forward, bombs forward with his strength and hence difficult to get off the ball, but the dribbling, skill, passing, crossing is very very limited.
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This is so not true. Watch the game against Bolton in Jones's first season. An inch perfect cross to assist Rooney first and an excellent dribble to assist his 2nd. Jones. He showed a lot more going forward and was very effective at the same age.
 
Akash said:
This is so not true. Watch the game against Bolton in Jones's first season. An inch perfect cross to assist Rooney first and an excellent dribble to assist his 2nd. Jones. He showed a lot more going forward and was very effective at the same age.
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If you ask any supporter to come up with an example of Jones in the attacking sense, that's the one they'd come up with. It's the first moment that sprang to my mind and it was six years ago. Which should tell you what an exception that game was.

The big difference between the two is that Jones got a chance, at Blackburn and at United. Managers put some trust in him.

To those who say TFM isn't a midfielder because José hasn't played him there. He's barely played him in any position!!
 
Dobbs said:
If you ask any supporter to come up with an example of Jones in the attacking sense, that's the one they'd come up with. It's the first moment that sprang to my mind and it was six years ago. Which should tell you what an exception that game was.

The big difference between the two is that Jones got a chance, at Blackburn and at United. Managers put some trust in him.

To those who say TFM isn't a midfielder because José hasn't played him there. He's barely played him in any position!!
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That's because he hasn't played at RB since Fergie left. He stopped playing there even before Fergie left in fact. There were a few other games he looked good in going forward as well (Chelsea was another one I think).

It's not just Jose. LVG didn't think he was a midfielder either. Once promoted to the U21's he played more as a defender as well. That's not to say he couldn't be a CM but at this point the belief is more faith driven than on any actual evidence.
 
Akash said:
That's because he hasn't played at RB since Fergie left. He stopped playing there even before Fergie left in fact. There were a few other games he looked good in going forward as well (Chelsea was another one I think).

It's not just Jose. LVG didn't think he was a midfielder either. Once promoted to the U21's he played more as a defender as well. That's not to say he couldn't be a CM but at this point the belief is more faith driven than on any actual evidence.
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If that's the only reason we haven't seen more of Jones' attacking ability (I dont think it is) then the same could be said of TFM. He not only doesn't play fullback, he doesn't play at all.

LvG played TFM midfield at times so it's too definitive to say he didn't see him in that position. He also played there for the U21's on a number of occasions, he even played as a 10.

Right now nobody can say he's not a midfielder, the guy simply hasn't played enough to say either way.
 
Dobbs said:
If that's the only reason we haven't seen more of Jones' attacking ability (I dont think it is) then the same could be said of TFM. He not only doesn't play fullback, he doesn't play at all.

LvG played TFM midfield at times so it's too definitive to say he didn't see him in that position. He also played there for the U21's on a number of occasions, he even played as a 10.

Right now nobody can say he's not a midfielder, the guy simply hasn't played enough to say either way.
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Well obviously. I was making a comparison of them at similar ages and there's no basis to suggest that TFM is better going forward.

LVG never played him in midfield and by all account he stopped playing in midfield for the U21's as well aside from youth CL thing.
 
Akash said:
Well obviously. I was making a comparison of them at similar ages and there's no basis to suggest that TFM is better going forward.

LVG never played him in midfield and by all account he stopped playing in midfield for the U21's as well aside from youth CL thing.
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I don't think either of those statements are accurate. I'm sure LvG tried him in midfield although I can't remember the games and he absolutely did for the reserves. He played everywhere but centre forward.
 
khoazany said:
Nobbody is saying first team training isn't demanding or crucial. He can do both training with the first team and play with the U23s, maybe only occasionally. In fact every other club does that with their young players in the first team fringe, except for us this season. Southampton played McQueen and Sims in their last U23s games against us. We can clearly see how lack of match sharpness and confidence TFM is in his first team cameos this season.
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Thing is we use small squad this season, so every member of first team squad should be involved in training or we would have to use GK in outfield positions in training. Bastian first got back into first team through this very reason when we had some players missing out through injury. TFM seems to be deemed as first team material while not beat the competitor to be involved & get more minutes. U23 could happen in first team training day or even first team off day. As regular first team player TFM followed the first team schedule.

As I explained, he may not need to put mileage on this season, but only to get used to how first team run, the expectation so next season even if he was not utilized in our squad; he can go on loan with knowledge of expectation & being prepared as first team players.
 
Really think he can develop into a wonderful, versatile player. Worth persisting, as it is with a few of the current U23/U18s - and hopefully chances to impress may arise as our squad sheds a few of the older members.
 
Akash said:
Black Phil Jones but not as good as Phil was at the same age.
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Sammyjunn said:
Way way faster, better going forward and a better passer, but not as composed as Jones was at that age.
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LouisDanGaal said:
He is an absolute tank, pace strength and in particular acceleration to burn but needs a lot of work with his on the ball play. First name that pops to mind is Bakayoko from Monaco.
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Cheers guys. Fosu-Mensah is a pretty cool name.

DWelbz19 said:
Kante. If you give him the position he'll do just as well as Kante.

Apparently.
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:D
 
I do get the Kante comment a little bit though, he has the sheer pace and acceleration, work rate, stamina, endurance, tackling and strength, but he has no where near his positioning, and reading of the game. If he develops that, he can be a star. But thats a big if.
 
Pogba is injured.
Herrera is suspended
Fellaini is injured
Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin left

If this guy doesn't get the chance to play alongisde Carrick against West Brom then he must leave the club on loan next season. If he does get the chance then take it and impress the manager.
 
Mike09 said:
Pogba is injured.
Herrera is suspended
Fellaini is injured
Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin left

If this guy doesn't get the chance to play alongisde Carrick against West Brom then he must leave the club on loan next season. If he does get the chance then take it and impress the manager.
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Jose doesn't see him as a midfielder ..seriously how many times are people going to moan about this?
 
Mike09 said:
How do you know? What evidence do you have?
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Every time he's played for us has been either RB or RM. I think once possibly he came on as a midfielder to close out a game, but that was more just to waste some minutes and add a bit of energy.

I agree though he definitely needs to go out on loan and prove himself. Sitting on the bench all season is a waste of time. Just training will never get you up to speed required.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Every time he's played for us has been either RB or RM. I think once possibly he came on as a midfielder to close out a game, but that was more just to waste some minutes and add a bit of energy.

I agree though he definitely needs to go out on loan and prove himself. Sitting on the bench all season is a waste of time. Just training will never get you up to speed required.
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Against Northampton Jose played him as a right back.
Against Zorya Jose played him as a right back
Against Fenerbahce Jose played him as a midfield
Against Swansea Jose played him as a midfield
Against Zorya away Jose played him as a right midfield
Against Reading Jose played him as a midfield
Against Wigan Jose played him as a right back

I don't see that as enough evidence that Jose doesn't see him as a midfielder. I didn't even say he should play as a midfieder but aren't we running out of option now against West Brom to pair someone with Carrick and the available player who Jose has used as midfielder are Mata and Mensah. That's why in my opinion this is the chance for him to get some game time.
 
We might see a bit more of him now that it looks like Smalling & Jones are both out injured although its probably unlikely he'd go ahead of Blind in the pecking order at centre half.
 
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