Times: Finding buyers for the dead wood is Manchester United’s biggest challenge this window

[Havak]

If we go purely off players who were sold / released and don't include loans or youth:

19/20

In	Out
James	Lukaku
Wan-Bissaka	Darmian
Maguire	Herrera
Bruno (January)	Valencia
	Young (January)

18/19

In	Out
Fred	Blind
Dalot	Johnstone*
Grant	Carrick (Retired)
No January Signing	Fellaini (January)

*Johnstone arguably not first team but was sold for a fee.

17/18

In	Out
Lukaku	Ibrahimovic
Matic	Rooney
Lindelof	Januzaj
Sanchez (January)	Mkhitaryan (January)

It takes us a season (Summer and January windows) to historically swap 3-5 players around, but people seem to think we can eliminate as many as 10 and buy just three, or maybe as many as six? It doesn't matter really as it just isn't happening is it? Again, my opinion is that we will be lucky to see 5-7 players outright sold for a cash fee to spend on incoming faces.

It was the poster's list not mine. I only requote it and place price next to the players.

Yeah, I was just saying the list is there really and some posters (not you) seem to believe that we will sell 10 players completely in one transfer window which is IMO a ridiculous claim. I'll eat my words if it happens but I'd still be incredibly surprised. If we get anywhere close to that kind of exodus it would include loans, 100%.

 

[sparx99]

Everton, Leeds, Burnley all within less than an hour driving distance to Manchester.

Can’t see any of them matching his rumoured 100k a week wages though.

Maybe they don't need to. He'll have made £20m from his time at Utd so maybe he'll be happy on £70k a week or whatever? You don't lose your previous earnings so its not going to be super painful for him. Depends if he wants to play football or collect a cheque.

 

[sparx99]

I'm just going off how a business would see quantity of assets.

It would be a massive change from our usual transfer dealings and direction we're taking to do this. If we do it, fair enough and hopefully it is a good decision and the correct model. I just highly doubt it'll happen because it never happens.

That's true that we haven't really done it before but I was playing around with a list of 8-9 players to leave and it still leaves a big squad. Maybe Ed has finally realized that paying wages to players who aren't playing is really stupid.

If we sold

De Gea
TFM
Dalot
Smalling
Jones
Rojo
Lingard
Sanchez
Mata

We would still have

Henderson
Romero
Grant

AWB
Laird

Tuanzebe
Maguire
Bailly
Lindelof

Shaw
Williams

Matic
Garner
Fred
McTominay
Pogba
Pereira
Bruno

Chong
Greenwood

James
Rashford

Martial
Ighalo

That's a 24 player squad. Add Sancho, Grealish or Van de Beek, a new CB and a full-back and it's 28 players. Loan out Chong, Laird and Garner maybe and you have a full 25 man squad for next season. I said over on the transfer tweets thread you'd get over £100m in fees in all likelihood and save £1m a week in wages.

 

[romufc]

None of those players will have been on anything near what Lingard is. Plus some of them are better players than Lingard. If we get £10-15m for him we've done well imo.

Okay, which ones are better than Lingard?

Lingard is a proven player in the PL.

 

[sparx99]

And Southampton paid £20m for Danny Ings... A transfer price does not reflect how good a player will be at the club, the demand and assumed ability of the player does. At least Joelinton came of two halfdecent seasons for Hoffenheim and he was an asset for his team and actually wanted by a club. Creating demand and thus an increase in price. Lingard has not shown anything of worth on the pitch for 18 months, his on the ball abilities is limited and there is no real need for the club to keep him. Joelinton showed enough on the pitch for people to actually think that he was half decent, filling a specific role for Newcastle. And while Newcastle got fleeced, the conditions were there to somewhat understand the price paid. For Lingard, these conditions are not there...

Lingard has a much bigger track record than just his poor last season though in which he had family issues. He was never amazing but his actual Premier League career hasn't showed a complete lack of talent. Brighton, West Ham, Aston Villa, West Brom etc could all be interested in a player like Lingard in my opinion. Crystal Palace could see him as a replacement for Zaha for example.

 

[Zlatattack]

Mixed bunch i think.

Smalling - No problem. He's a good defender and I wouldn't mind having him in our squad, but he wants first team football. He'd do a job at most clubs.
Jones - This is a harder sell, but surely not harder than Micah Richards (although he was on a FT). Seems like a very typical West Ham/Everton target for me.
Lingard - Been utterly shit this year but wasn't too bad in the past. Mid have a career in a lower/mid table team.
Periera - Can't imagine much interest in him.
Mata - Maybe a move to Spain or Italy, great footballing brain, great character, no legs anymore.
Sanchez - Inter or bust. I'd give him away on a free just to be rid.
Rojo - I don't know, he's been in Argentina, maybe if we let him go for a really small fee his old club might sign him.

 

[Tiber]

Be Like Jesse innit

I don't know why his hand sign annoys me, but it does. I hope he enjoys his time at West Ham.



As for the article, its hardly a surprise that we struggle to offload players when the likes of Matic are being handed 3 year contracts.

 

[Sandikan]

Same thread every year.
Same long list of players people count as dead wood every year.
Same minor list of sales as every year.

 

[Sandikan]

Mixed bunch i think.

Smalling - No problem. He's a good defender and I wouldn't mind having him in our squad, but he wants first team football. He'd do a job at most clubs.
Jones - This is a harder sell, but surely not harder than Micah Richards (although he was on a FT). Seems like a very typical West Ham/Everton target for me.
Lingard - Been utterly shit this year but wasn't too bad in the past. Mid have a career in a lower/mid table team.
Periera - Can't imagine much interest in him.
Mata - Maybe a move to Spain or Italy, great footballing brain, great character, no legs anymore.
Sanchez - Inter or bust. I'd give him away on a free just to be rid.
Rojo - I don't know, he's been in Argentina, maybe if we let him go for a really small fee his old club might sign him.

It's funny how things can change quite quickly. It wasn't that long ago most of the cafe seemed to be crapping themselves that Perreira would be sold, and we needed to make sure we signed him up! Now he looks mid table at best unfortunately.

Sanchez if we can scrape any money out of him superb, but it's more important to shift that 2 years left on his deal at 20m a season. I think we'd all take shifting him without having to cover any of those wages as a superb deal.

 

[Zlatattack]

It's funny how things can change quite quickly. It wasn't that long ago most of the cafe seemed to be crapping themselves that Perreira would be sold, and we needed to make sure we signed him up! Now he looks mid table at best unfortunately.

Sanchez if we can scrape any money out of him superb, but it's more important to shift that 2 years left on his deal at 20m a season. I think we'd all take shifting him without having to cover any of those wages as a superb deal.

Yeah, but i think he looked good for a while in Spain so people assumed he''d be alright. I'm sure he'll do a job for someone, but it's not us.

 

[stevoc]

Okay, which ones are better than Lingard?

Lingard is a proven player in the PL.

Which ones i think are better than Lingard was hardly my main point. And it’s subjective so you'll most likely disagree.

But what isn’t up for debate is that Lingard will be earning 2-3 and maybe even 4 times what the others were on when they were bought. He’s had a few years now of terrible form and is 27 going on 28. In a post COVID 19 world I just don’t see any team being willing to pay more than as I said £10-15m for him if we’re lucky.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

Some weird stuff in that article. Woodward isn't having to look too far for someone to sign Sanchez since the club that already has him wants to make it permanent. Also:

Lingard, 27, is a popular figure within the dressing room and scored an important goal against Leicester City on Sunday

It was a completely meaningless goal. The final kick of a game that would've ended anyway the moment Schmeichel kicked the ball.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

I can't actually read The Times's pay-walled article. It would've been nice had the OP listed the so-called "deadwood". I'll be nicer to them. They are surplus due to new arrivals duplicating their positions. We basically have too many players for 3 positions: centre-back, right-back and attacking midfield. I think 8 players should leave this summer. They won't get games next season. Keeping them is not just hoarding; it prevents new players arriving. I think Woody specifically said we can't get a new CB because we have 7 seniors already:

​	​	Age​	Fee? (£ m)​	To:​
Juan Mata​	AM​	32​	6​	​
Alexis Sánchez​	AM​	31​	12​	Inter​
Jesse Lingard​	AM​	27​	16​	​
Andreas Pereira​	AM​	24​	12​	​
Chris Smalling​	CB​	30​	16​	Roma​
Marcos Rojo​	CB​	30​	4​	Estudiantes​
Phil Jones​	CB​	28​	6​	​
Diogo Dalot​	RB​	21​	18​	​
Total:​	​	​	90​	​

The total fee here adds up to £90m. The wage bill is almost £50m p.a. = £1m / week.

United need 5 (with this approximate priority): RW, CB, AM, CDM, LB. I believe: if we don't buy a senior, this summer, for each of those 5 positions then we should, at least, buy a prospect, sign a Bosman, or bring in a loanee.

 

[Focusmate]

For most of these its about getting their wages off our books. If we holdout for transfer fees most of them will be “here” until their contracts run out.

 

[Lash]

I can't actually read The Times's pay-walled article. It would've been nice had the OP listed the so-called "deadwood". I'll be nicer to them. They are surplus due to new arrivals duplicating their positions. We basically have too many players for 3 positions: centre-back, right-back and attacking midfield. I think 8 players should leave this summer. They won't get games next season. Keeping them is not just hoarding; it prevents new players arriving. I think Woody specifically said we can't get a new CB because we have 7 seniors already:

​	​	Age​	Fee? (£ m)​	To:​
Juan Mata​	AM​	32​	6​	​
Alexis Sánchez​	AM​	31​	12​	Inter​
Jesse Lingard​	AM​	27​	16​	​
Andreas Pereira​	AM​	24​	12​	​
Chris Smalling​	CB​	30​	16​	Roma​
Marcos Rojo​	CB​	30​	4​	Estudiantes​
Phil Jones​	CB​	28​	6​	​
Diogo Dalot​	RB​	21​	18​	​
Total:​	​	​	90​	​

The total fee here adds up to £90m. The wage bill is almost £50m p.a. = £1m / week.

United need 5 (with this approximate priority): RW, CB, AM, CDM, LB. I believe: if we don't buy a senior, this summer, for each of those 5 positions then we should, at least, buy a prospect, sign a Bosman, or bring in a loanee.

J. Pereira
TFM or Dalot
Sanchez
Lingard
Andrea
Rojo
Jones

Mata not metioned and also say Smalling is likely to return. Not sure I believe that about Smalling though.

 

[Bestietom]

Yes, we will have a bigger problem getting rid of players because of the high wages we pay.

 

[buckooo1978]

given squad depth and likely limited funds I think we can prioritise sales/exits

there are players who are a major drain and must be moved on - these are players who contribute next to nothing, are on big wages and are the detriment to the squad

- Sanchez, Rojo, Jones

there are players who could move on but add something to our squad

- Mata, Periera, Lingard, Smalling, Fosu-Mensah, Dalot (perhaps), Chong (perhaps), Joel Periera? Grant? Romero? (should Henderson come back)

I'd be delighted to get rid of the drains and at least two/three of the second list - we could make it easy for ourselves by giving frees to Sanchez/Rojo

I think we could easily sell Smalling and raise some funds from Lingard, Jones, A Periera and Dalot

It depends which of the second list Ole sees as being useful backup - Mata adds experience which we are short on in our squad for example

if we shifted 5 permanently we would be doing very well

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Yes, we will have a bigger problem getting rid of players because of the high wages we pay.

We need to get them off the wage bill then. Sell Dalot, Sanchez, and Smalling. Loan out the others. Need to free up funds to bring in 5 players in 5 positions: RW, CB, CDM, AM, and LB. For each position: a senior, prospect, Bosman, or loanee. No excuse, next year, for starting the season without specialist cover for Shaw and Matic. In Shaw's case we need a left-footed left-back - because Rashford is far less of an attacking threat without an overlapping fullback beside him. Likewise, without Matic in the centre, Pogba drops back and changes from B2B to 2nd DCM.

 

[Bestietom]

We need to get them off the wage bill then. Sell Dalot, Sanchez, and Smalling. Loan out the others. Need to free up funds to bring in 5 players in 5 positions: RW, CB, CDM, AM, and LB. For each position: a senior, prospect, Bosman, or loanee. No excuse, next year, for starting the season without specialist cover for Shaw and Matic. In Shaw's case we need a left-footed left-back - because Rashford is far less of an attacking threat without an overlapping fullback beside him. Likewise, without Matic in the centre, Pogba drops back and changes from B2B to 2nd DCM.

Yes I agree, But cannot see us bring in 5 players tbh. 3 maybe, RW, CDM, and a left footed CB.
We will promote more young players for other positions.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Yes I agree, But cannot see us bring in 5 players tbh. 3 maybe, RW, CDM, and a left footed CB.
We will promote more young players for other positions.

If we bring in Bosmans or loanees we can fill all 5 positions with experienced specialists; without paying transfer fees. Not ideal but better than

​

we won't challenge for PL title next season but at some unspecified date in the future​

​

We need to challenge next season, and need a full 25-man squad to do it with; with at least 2 specialist players for every position.

 

[Focusmate]

For most of these its about getting their wages off our books. If we holdout for transfer fees most of them will be “here” until their contracts run out.

 

[#07]

Glad to see the club saw that it was worth far more to get Alexis off the wage bill than try to hold out for a fee that would never come. We all expected it to go differently. Still, once it went south it was smart of United to recognise it and get him gone.

Hopefully we let a few more out the door this summer. Even if we have to accept nominal fees or no fees for them.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Sanchez got himself a great deal. Kept his insane salary for 1 more year.

But I hope we have learned our lesson here

 

[Sandikan]

Sanchez got himself a great deal. Kept his insane salary for 1 more year.

But I hope we have learned our lesson here

These top level players never really lose out do they.

The worst he was going to have happen was skulking around in the reserves for a few months, before we had to pay him loads to go elsewhere.

You're right though - he's had a great outcome here. Gets to play, somewhere he's actually doing well, keeps the mad salary for a year, and gets an extra year on top too.

 

[E-mal]

We aren't getting paid for these lots, are we?
Hopefully we get rid and move on soon.
The lesson here is that we move players when they still have some value.

For example, if we're getting a DLP, then just let Fred go and get a very decent fee for him while the memories of this good season is still fresh in the minds of prospective employers.

 

[drmuji]

Players now to get rid in this summer after Alexis
1. Lingardinho
2. Rojo
3. Smalling
4. Jones

If these four go. I'll be very happy

 

[My only Eric]

We can get a decent enough fee if we find a buyer for Smalling and Lingard.

I would gladly let Jones and Rojo leave for free just to get their wages off book

Players now to get rid in this summer after Alexis
1. Lingardinho
2. Rojo
3. Smalling
4. Jones

If these four go. I'll be very happy

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We still need a squad. It is up to Ole to get the best out of these players when needed. Injured ones is a concern though and not much can be done with them.
Ideally younger players will come and take up a role in the squad.

 

[#07]

We can get a decent enough fee if we find a buyer for Smalling and Lingard.

I would gladly let Jones and Rojo leave for free just to get their wages off book

Definite decent enough. Smalling has done well at Roma so Serie A clubs might give us £10m. However, Lingard hasn't done much for a couple of years.

As I said on a previous page you might like a Waitrose banana but are you going to pay a premium for it? The market is full of alternatives for the players we want to get shot of.

Honestly, do you think Lingard or Pereira or even Mata are that much better than some of the players out there that we'll get more than a few million for them? If I am a middling club and I can get Ryan Fraser for free why would I pay for one of our cast offs? Especially when Fraser's wages will be far less.

 

[wolvored]

We ought to weigh up how much a player is going to cost in wages and whether we can get a fee. If a player lets say jones is going to get £15 million in wages, would it be wiser to let him go for free or a minimum amount, or risk trying to get £10 mill and we end up not selling him. Ole has shown he isnt going to play him unless absolutely neccessary.

 

[Alemar]

We still need a squad. It is up to Ole to get the best out of these players when needed. Injured ones is a concern though and not much can be done with them.
Ideally younger players will come and take up a role in the squad.

Jones is not needed, like... at all. If for some mysterious reason we need to play our 5th or 6th CB a couple of times per season, it may be an academy lad.

 

[hungrywing]

We ought to weigh up how much a player is going to cost in wages and whether we can get a fee. If a player lets say jones is going to get £15 million in wages, would it be wiser to let him go for free or a minimum amount, or risk trying to get £10 mill and we end up not selling him. Ole has shown he isnt going to play him unless absolutely neccessary.

Many caftards were very vocal about this when Woodward re-signed Jones to 'preserve his sell-on value'.

 

[RikRuud]

Sanchez and Rojo pretty much confirmed as leaving. That's a lot of deadwood shifted and wages free'd up.

 

[Alemar]

Sanchez and Rojo pretty much confirmed as leaving. That's a lot of deadwood shifted and wages free'd up.

Any news on Rojo transfer-wise?

 

[RikRuud]

Any news on Rojo transfer-wise?

not much, apparently he only played 1 game on loan as their domestic league was suspended and he's apparently breached lockdown rules on a few occasions. Found a quote from Ole

"At the moment I can’t see him coming back here over the summer because we've been in this bubble and have this squad available until next summer.
So he just needs to focus on getting and staying fit and being ready for wherever that takes him."

Certainly doesn't sound good for him.

 

[Jezpeza]

If we go purely off players who were sold / released and don't include loans or youth:

19/20

In	Out
James	Lukaku
Wan-Bissaka	Darmian
Maguire	Herrera
Bruno (January)	Valencia
	Young (January)

18/19

In	Out
Fred	Blind
Dalot	Johnstone*
Grant	Carrick (Retired)
No January Signing	Fellaini (January)

*Johnstone arguably not first team but was sold for a fee.

17/18

In	Out
Lukaku	Ibrahimovic
Matic	Rooney
Lindelof	Januzaj
Sanchez (January)	Mkhitaryan (January)

It takes us a season (Summer and January windows) to historically swap 3-5 players around, but people seem to think we can eliminate as many as 10 and buy just three, or maybe as many as six? It doesn't matter really as it just isn't happening is it? Again, my opinion is that we will be lucky to see 5-7 players outright sold for a cash fee to spend on incoming faces.


Yeah, I was just saying the list is there really and some posters (not you) seem to believe that we will sell 10 players completely in one transfer window which is IMO a ridiculous claim. I'll eat my words if it happens but I'd still be incredibly surprised. If we get anywhere close to that kind of exodus it would include loans, 100%.

Quite a good and insightful post. I think its fair to say that most people would happily see any or all of those players In the op list moved on as it would raise some funds and free up wages and have next to no real impact on the squad. How many remains to be seen but yes, highly improbable that we will shift them all and also probably detrimental as some can still be dotted into the lineups for easier cup games or when you have a dead rubber (eg already qualified from european group - fingers crossed). Hope to really see the likes of laird/mengi/chong/garner grow into the squad as we clear the decks over the next couple of years.

 

[RedSky]

Sanchez, Rojo, Jones and Lingard. If these lads leave i'll consider that a very good Summer clear out.

 

[Bojan11]

Sanchez, Rojo, Jones and Lingard. If these lads leave i'll consider that a very good Summer clear out.

Maybe Bailly too if we can get a decent fee. I rather keep Smalling than Bailly if we don’t bring in another CB despite his limitations on the ball.

 

[RedSky]

Maybe Bailly too if we can get a decent fee. I rather keep Smalling than Bailly if we don’t bring in another CB despite his limitations on the ball.

We can afford to remove 2 CBs bring in young backups and keep Bailly imo. If Bailly can get over his injury issues then we'll see if he has real potential, otherwise if he keeps breaking down then cut him out next Summer. That's just my take, I can understand if we decide to just bin them all and start over but I think that's too many changes personally.

Mind you, if we add Tuanzebe into the mix and Smalling returning from loan we'd have way too many CB's so we could probably afford to sell 3.

 

[MrMarcello]

Do football clubs not insert buyout clauses into contracts?

Or would a club like United simply not consider/offer a few options like: here's half of your remaining contract up front, you're now free; or negotiate a percentage of; or offer an interested club to offset salaries?

We've seen American sports clubs negotiate clauses and the like, I'd think global clubs do/could do similar. Just seems a much easier "sunk costs" over trying to find a taker that will 1) pay a fee to then 2) take on large wages the player would demand.