Times: Finding buyers for the dead wood is Manchester United’s biggest challenge this window

LoneStar said:
Yeah but the best thing we can do is learn from this, and stop handing out long term huge contracts to players.

Hypothetically if we have a player who is 33, and has been amazing, does it not make sense to give him good money, but based on appearances or performance? I suppose players won’t be willing to accept such contracts.
Click to expand...

Yeah looks like we are learning our lessons from previous mistakes but will be so gutting if we still get lumbered with some of these players due to poor decisions that have made previously.
 
Shipping out unwanted players has been an issue for years.

Ole is the only manager in recent time who seems capable of either loaning or selling players that he doesnt see in his long term plans.

We could easily sell 6 or 7 in this window, maybe more.

I think we have to be ruthless and ultimately adopt a more "needs must" approach in the fee's we may get for some players. The market is going to be strange and we have a tendency to over value our players.

We have to think - who benefits more by "Player X" leaving? Its us. We need them gone, and at this point its at whatever cost. Ole is shaping the mentality of the squad, he cannot do that with some of the players staying there and serving no purpose.

My assessment is this:
We need the loan players sold permanently as a priority (they wouldnt be on loan if they had a future here, they are the deadest of the deadwood):
Sanchez / Smalling / Rojo

The following all have no purpose here and need to leave:
Jones / Lingard

The following could be sold but may have a bit part role if we cant sell them:
Periera / Dalot / Mata

I think as an absolute minimum we need 5 permanent outgoings, possibly 6 or 7 depending on who is bought.

Regarding the fees - we need to be realistic.

People are stating we should not consider anything less then 30Mil for Lingard have just lost the plot for me. He's an average footballer at best. In todays market i'd take 15-20Mil for him. Thats worth more to us than him playing another season here, another minute even. Do we want to see him gone so we can improve or have him stay cos we want an unrealistic price? We wont move forward with this approach. 20Mil and his wages gone is more important for us long term.

Sanchez - just get rid. For free, for 1p. Whatever, just do not come back
Smalling - 15-20Mil but i'd take anything from 10Mil up
Jones - See Smalling
Periera - Probably around 10-15Mil
Rojo - 10-15Mil
 
#07 said:
Yeah cos some of those contract extensions are looking like amazing value now. Amortisation to the rescue!
Click to expand...

I have been baffled by some of out extensions, Jones and Rojo in particular. I agree the main thing is getting them off the age bill rather than transfer fees. Its stupid reasoning by fans that players like lingard, jones, pereira who arent gettig near the team and arent very good will command any sort of fee really
 
Craig Ward said:
Shipping out unwanted players has been an issue for years.

Ole is the only manager in recent time who seems capable of either loaning or selling players that he doesnt see in his long term plans.

We could easily sell 6 or 7 in this window, maybe more.

I think we have to be ruthless and ultimately adopt a more "needs must" approach in the fee's we may get for some players. The market is going to be strange and we have a tendency to over value our players.

We have to think - who benefits more by "Player X" leaving? Its us. We need them gone, and at this point its at whatever cost. Ole is shaping the mentality of the squad, he cannot do that with some of the players staying there and serving no purpose.

My assessment is this:
We need the loan players sold permanently as a priority (they wouldnt be on loan if they had a future here, they are the deadest of the deadwood):
Sanchez / Smalling / Rojo

The following all have no purpose here and need to leave:
Jones / Lingard

The following could be sold but may have a bit part role if we cant sell them:
Periera / Dalot / Mata

I think as an absolute minimum we need 5 permanent outgoings, possibly 6 or 7 depending on who is bought.

Regarding the fees - we need to be realistic.

People are stating we should not consider anything less then 30Mil for Lingard have just lost the plot for me. He's an average footballer at best. In todays market i'd take 15-20Mil for him. Thats worth more to us than him playing another season here, another minute even. Do we want to see him gone so we can improve or have him stay cos we want an unrealistic price? We wont move forward with this approach. 20Mil and his wages gone is more important for us long term.

Sanchez - just get rid. For free, for 1p. Whatever, just do not come back
Smalling - 15-20Mil but i'd take anything from 10Mil up
Jones - See Smalling
Periera - Probably around 10-15Mil
Rojo - 10-15Mil
Click to expand...

Feels like we will have to dig into reserves if we want Grealish & CB looking at some of those valuations, however like you say gotta be realistic about the situation and what we can get for some of these players
 
I mean, it’s not that hard. Worst case scenario is they all go for free, it’s hard to sell players who’ve clearly failed so just get them gone at whatever price.
 
crossy1686 said:
I mean, it’s not that hard. Worst case scenario is they all go for free, it’s hard to sell players who’ve clearly failed so just get them gone at whatever price.
Click to expand...

Can definitely forget about any more signings if we get next to nothing for these players
 
#07 said:
Yeah cos some of those contract extensions are looking like amazing value now. Amortisation to the rescue!
Click to expand...
Smalling being linked with a 12-15m move. Why would we sell for 3.5m?
Lingard is an England international. Why would we sell for 3.5m?
We turned down Valencia who wanted Andreas for 15-20m just two seasons ago. Why would we sell for 3.5m?
Dalot cost 20m and was one of the highest rated youth prospects going and been linked with 15m moves. Why would we sell for 3.5m?

What isn’t amazing value is selling players for 3.5m for no reason other than you throwing your toys out of the pram.

Amortization has nothing to do with anything here. I’d be surprised if you even understand what amortization is.
 
This isn't even news worthy. It's the same as every summer. We pay our players more than they are worth so we always struggle to find buyers.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
This isn't even news worthy. It's the same as every summer. We pay our players more than they are worth so we always struggle to find buyers.
Click to expand...

Do you think we will get enough money to make a second signing this summer whether that be Grealish/CB
 
#07 said:
Yeah cos some of those contract extensions are looking like amazing value now. Amortisation to the rescue!
Click to expand...

I am guessing he is referring the value you put at 35 million for these players collectively. I am sure we can get more than that, but I think the point you were making was that even at the low prices it's worthwhile to move them.
 
Seriously though, is it really a problem or we want to believe that it is.

Transfers out
19/20
Lukaku -> Inter
Smalling -> Roma
Darmian -> Parma
Young -> Inter
Sanchez -> Inter loan
Rojo -> loan
etc

18/19
Blind -> Ajax
Fellaini -> chinese club

17/18
Mkhi
Januzaj

16/17, 15/16, etc etc

The key is to make the players feel unwanted eg. less gaming times, less picked on bench, don't talk to them, ignore them, send them to reserve, etc. Disturb their ego. Or ruthlessly tell them to "feck off" <-- not gonna happen with Ole though.

Then they will naturally want to leave. The more hostile we are, the more they want to get out asap. We and their agents will help them find new clubs asap. If their contract here is expensive, then they will be more willing to get lower wages after sometime, but if we're too hostile to them then they will get out asap.

Therefore,
Biggest challenge is making the players we want to get rid wanting to leave.
They have the advantages of contracts so more player power to them.

And our club is also obsessed in keeping players to retain their resale value, so this is another challenge --> to get better management of human resources (players) and contracts.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Smalling being linked with a 12-15m move. Why would we sell for 3.5m?
Lingard is an England international. Why would we sell for 3.5m?
We turned down Valencia who wanted Andreas for 15-20m just two seasons ago. Why would we sell for 3.5m?
Dalot cost 20m and was one of the highest rated youth prospects going and been linked with 15m moves. Why would we sell for 3.5m?

What isn’t amazing value is selling players for 3.5m for no reason other than you throwing your toys out of the pram.

Amortization has nothing to do with anything here. I’d be surprised if you even understand what amortization is.
Click to expand...
`

Okay, lets hang on to those players and see if we have any more luck getting the fee we want than we did with Darmian etc.

Of the players you've listed I think only Smalling has a chance of going for over £10m. I'd love to be proven wrong.

As for amortization, you're free to think what you think.

CG1010 said:
I am guessing he is referring the value you put at 35 million for these players collectively. I am sure we can get more than that, but I think the point you were making was that even at the low prices it's worthwhile to move them.
Click to expand...

Yes. In accounting terms it may have seemed sensible to someone at the club to hold on to these players. However, despite the book value of these 'assets' upon renewing their contracts they do nothing more than cannibalise United's resources. Since their value declines every year, and we've already committed the expense, why not just write them off now?
 
Offering new contracts to these players so there would be a sell on fee has back fired big time.
Getting rid of them when their contracts expired would have saved Utd money in the long run.
 
#07 said:
Okay, lets hang on to those players and see if we have any more luck getting the fee we want than we did with Darmian etc.

Of the players you've listed I think only Smalling has a chance of going for over £10m. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...

It is all with the mentality.

We can get £50m for our players if we play this right.

We have seen players in the past go for big money, let me remind you of a few just last season:

1. Alex Iwobi £28m
2. Delph - £8m
3. Ayoze Perez - £30m
4. Seb haller - £45m
5. Billing - £15m
6. Lloyd Kelly - £14m
7. Tyrone Mings - £20m
8. Che Adams - £15m
9. Webster £20m

Lingard if sold well, can fetch £25m, Smalling £18m, Sanchez £10m, Perreira £10m , Rojo, Jones £5m = £68m

Dalot even would get us £25m.
 
romufc said:
It is all with the mentality.

We can get £50m for our players if we play this right.

We have seen players in the past go for big money, let me remind you of a few just last season:

1. Alex Iwobi £28m
2. Delph - £8m
3. Ayoze Perez - £30m
4. Seb haller - £45m
5. Billing - £15m
6. Lloyd Kelly - £14m
7. Tyrone Mings - £20m
8. Che Adams - £15m
9. Webster £20m

Lingard if sold well, can fetch £25m, Smalling £18m, Sanchez £10m, Perreira £10m , Rojo, Jones £5m = £68m

Dalot even would get us £25m.
Click to expand...

God I wish we could get those kind of prices for our players but sadly just don't see it happening
 
I see the briefings as for why we’ll not be doing much in the matter of incoming transfers had started.

Sancho in September it is then.
 
Good thing Ed is a finance person. He'll understand the remifications of keeping said deadwood around means United can't rebuild and will continue to struggle which brings in less... MONEY.
 
As long as it doesn't leave us chasing shadows for targets come the end of the window
 
croadyman said:
God I wish we could get those kind of prices for our players but sadly just don't see it happening
Click to expand...

There are players that go for sum of money. If we sell well, we can get money for 3 players. Smalling, Lingard and Dalot.

if Roma want to spend £15m on Smalling, we should be giving Jose a ring.. do you want him for £20m? Ed Woodward role has to include negotiating deals to sell players too.

Look at Lovren gone for £11m with no fuss.

We forget Dalot is a very highly rated RB. He is young with a good chance of becoming a very good RWB. Why can our transfer team start getting feelers from Dortmund or Wolves who play that system and would suit them?

We need to start being proactive trying to sell players.

If we sold Smalling, Dalot, Sanchez, Lingard, Rojo and Jones (v unlikely) we could get £50m and save £600k in wages. That would go buy Grealish and pay Sanchos wages. Then we would have our transfer budget of £100-150 to go get 2 signings.

Granted, easier said than done.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah because that one isn't reliant on selling players and think we set aside money for this deal last summer
Click to expand...

Be great to get him. Still have the nagging doubt that he's going to be largely it for us this summer if we do though. I keep seeing people say Sancho, Grealish n a CB. Where on earth are we getting that type of money from in this year of all years?
 
  • Romero (33) - £8M: top-class goalkeeper international experience and capable of being a #1 at most clubs
  • Andreas Pereira (24) - £10M: still young and can be a good player at mid table clubs, premier league and la liga experience
  • Jones (28) - £8-10M: a good CB when he's fit, can fit in to most teams a solid defender but injuries decrease his fee.
  • Smalling (30) - £15-18M: Top class CB can play in most low-top-tier teams in Europe, eg Sevilla, Roma, Everton, Spurs and so on.
  • Rojo (30) - £5M: International experience, World Cup finalist, played at United for several years offers a wealth of experience to any team making him worth minimum 5M still only 30.
  • Dalot (21) - £8M: Young and has some potential, premier-league player so commands an 8M fee due to his age
  • Mata (32) - Keep for depth unless an offer comes in for more than £10M - experience, world cup winner and proven at Utd and Chelsea
  • Lingard (27) - £20M: Still a potential match winner even if he's hit and miss, can fit into most teams like Everton, Crystal Palace, West Ham etc.
  • Alexis (31) - £16-20M: Can still be world-class when his attitude is right, still has 4 years ahead of him and he can still help younger players coming through, winner at an international-level, Barca, still worth a £20M fee.
Still shipping out dead-wood is still worth 50-70M even if you take cut-price for some, they have played at the highest level, it's not like they are championship level players.

Some players are worth it for their experience eg Alexis, some for their ability and experience e.g. Mata, Smalling, Romero, and some are still match-winners such as Lingard.

As much as we may dislike Lingard, he would still have moments of brilliance at clubs like West-Ham, Palace, Burnley for example which would be worth it, he can score goals and create, just for United he's not at the level expected.
 
If clubs keep taking a punt on Ravel Morrison then they'll definitely be those who would take the likes of Lingard and Jones
 
It’s true. It has taken us ages to get rid of ours (in before all of our side is deadwood jokes) and some of them wouldn’t go so we just had to wait for them to go out of contract - Niasse.
 
romufc said:
It is all with the mentality.

We can get £50m for our players if we play this right.

We have seen players in the past go for big money, let me remind you of a few just last season:

1. Alex Iwobi £28m
2. Delph - £8m
3. Ayoze Perez - £30m
4. Seb haller - £45m
5. Billing - £15m
6. Lloyd Kelly - £14m
7. Tyrone Mings - £20m
8. Che Adams - £15m
9. Webster £20m

Lingard if sold well, can fetch £25m, Smalling £18m, Sanchez £10m, Perreira £10m , Rojo, Jones £5m = £68m

Dalot even would get us £25m.
Click to expand...
Iwobi and Haller prices are crazy.
 
#07 said:
Honestly, I'd be willing to consider free transfer or nominal fees for a lot of our players. Who is going to pay real money for someone like Marcos Rojo? The only purpose players like him are serving right now is stopping us from allocating our wage bill to players we might actually want.

Its United's fault for giving long contracts to so many players who were clearly not up to snuff. In the last couple of years we have been daft enough to give new deals to Jones, Rojo, Andreas and others who were only ever going to be a wage sink for us. So not only can we not shift them, we're stuck with them for the foreseeable future.

Its like we don't learn: No matter how much you re-paint and clean your robin reliant nobody wants it. Nobody gives a toss about what you paid for it. They see its a banger and aren't going to be tricked into spending money on scrap. We waited and waited and waited for someone dumb enough to pay us over £10m for Darmian and, in the end, had to finally accept (what everyone could see) that nobody was going to pay that for someone who wouldn't be starting for a mid-table team.

Any or all of the following players could leave the club without weakening the squad in any way:

  • Romero
  • Pereira
  • Jones
  • Smalling
  • Rojo
  • Dalot
  • Mata
  • Lingard
  • Andreas
  • Alexis
I'd be happy to see the bulk of those to go. If we could sell all of them for around what we sold Darmian, which was £3.5m, that'd be £35m in incoming fees. Add another £35m to that and you're reaching the kind of sums you need to buy an elite centre back or defensive midfielder.

Woodward and Judge just have to get them out of the club.
Click to expand...
Agree with you. Woody is trying to stiff Roma for £18 mill for Smalling, they offered £13 mill. just accept it. Ole dont want him. Sanchez we ought to give to Inter and save hundreds of thousands a week. Jones Rojo you wont get anyone bidding for them anyway.
 
Craig Ward said:
Regarding the fees - we need to be realistic.

People are stating we should not consider anything less then 30Mil for Lingard have just lost the plot for me. He's an average footballer at best. In todays market i'd take 15-20Mil for him. Thats worth more to us than him playing another season here, another minute even. Do we want to see him gone so we can improve or have him stay cos we want an unrealistic price? We wont move forward with this approach. 20Mil and his wages gone is more important for us long term.

Sanchez - just get rid. For free, for 1p. Whatever, just do not come back
Smalling - 15-20Mil but i'd take anything from 10Mil up
Jones - See Smalling
Periera - Probably around 10-15Mil
Rojo - 10-15Mil
Click to expand...
You are not going to get £10-15 mill for Rojo or £15-20 mill for Jones or Smalling. Periera might reach £10 mill at a push but £7-8 mill more realistic. I think you would have to give Jones and Rojo anything from a free to £1-2 mill. Roma offered £13mill for Smalling and wont go beyond that.
 
I think Woodward is trying to be like Levy when selling players. If we don't want them and clubs aren't prepared to pay then just take a cut price deal to get them off the books rather than hold on to them. I think Spurs fib about some of the fees they supposedly get for their players anyway.
 
No shit. Maybe instead of "protecting our assets" by giving stupid contract extensions we should actually get rid of some players while we can still get something. Lingard, Jones, Rojo, Perreira should have been long gone while they still had some value. Dalot should have been sold last summer as he clearly wasn't in the plans of Ole so why keep him for another year and let his value go down too? Some absolutely baffling decisions.
 
The club should get rid of at least 4 to 5 players but that being said there is no hurry to sell players that can be rotated and used as squad options(Mata for example). The rushed beggining of the next season will surley see clubs struggle with injuries.
 
pixel said:
Not if you listen to some of the geniuses on here. Apparently Lingard's 'huge social media following' means we can expect clubs to bid up to 30m for him.
Click to expand...

If you take into account his salary then his value will be low. But when you look at the fact that an in form Lingard is better than the likes of iwobi they yeah 25m seems reasonable
 
You must log in or register to reply here.