I can see what he’s doing. Players are not good enough and weak. We get steamrollered regularly
Time to remove the rose-tinted glasses
- Thread starter AndersB
- Start date
Only last season that people were laughing at them for buying all kinds of rubbish.
Its the managers job to get the players playing as a cohesive unit.
Right now thats not happening for us.
That's nonsense that under ETH we would have played the same at Arsenal. We parked the bus in what was his 3rd game with limited training, so straight away it's not a like for like comparison as Ten Hag built the squad
But more importantly in that game, Arsenal hardly looked like scoring except at set pieces which we gave them too many of. From open play I can think of maybe 1 chance, under Ten Hag if a team failed to score from open play it's cos of a wonder save or 2 or the team somehow missing sitters. We tended to give away clear cut chances all the time
Amorim is obviously trying to play a clear style and system with a Ten Hag squad. Ten Hag has no excuse as he built that squad and we still had 0 idea what he wants his style of football to be after 3 years and nearly a billion spent
But more importantly in that game, Arsenal hardly looked like scoring except at set pieces which we gave them too many of. From open play I can think of maybe 1 chance, under Ten Hag if a team failed to score from open play it's cos of a wonder save or 2 or the team somehow missing sitters. We tended to give away clear cut chances all the time
Amorim is obviously trying to play a clear style and system with a Ten Hag squad. Ten Hag has no excuse as he built that squad and we still had 0 idea what he wants his style of football to be after 3 years and nearly a billion spent
Same, and I am happy with some of yhe improvement I have seen already.
If we put in the same performances under Amorim after a year, let alone after 2, he should be shown the door. Eth was serving this shite up pretty much since the end of his first season with us. In fact the 7-0 thumping by Pool was largely ignored by the majority of the fanbase as a freak result.
Amorim has barely been here 2 months. If we are going to judge him by the same standards as a manager who was with us for 2.5 years, at least let him first get a summer transfer window and a preseason with this squad.
Always wondered the origins of “rose tinted glasses”, but never cared enough to google it
For me no pass in the league, top 4 is probably impossible but top 6 isn't, it's gonna very hard especially after today's result but not impossible
Only last season that people were laughing at them for buying all kinds of rubbish.
Its the managers job to get the players playing as a cohesive unit.
Right now thats not happening for us.
Disagree, everyone knew they were buying decent players, it just needed coming to together. Anyone thinking the likes of caceido, lavia etc were rubbish are off their rockers
If a rebuild is done properly it is supposed to hurt before it gets better.
United was never in a position of bringing in a few key replacements and a coach and competing.
ETH wasn’t the wrong person just because of results. He was an overly negative introvert with poor skills for building a philosophical foundation and identity at a club like United.
Just because Amorim seems better suited to that task long term doesn’t mean the rebuild isnt still needed.
United was never in a position of bringing in a few key replacements and a coach and competing.
ETH wasn’t the wrong person just because of results. He was an overly negative introvert with poor skills for building a philosophical foundation and identity at a club like United.
Just because Amorim seems better suited to that task long term doesn’t mean the rebuild isnt still needed.
You could literally say the same for us.
De ligt rubbish? Ugarte? Yoro? Maz?
No. We have some good players but we just don't play good football.
What chelse did is change their manager until they got it right.
The club need to back Amorim and not worry about results this season. The players need to adapt to Amorim or go. Ten Hag bent and waived from his principles to suit the squad and get results and he lost all credibility. The players need to understand that Amorim is the boss and that you either adapt to his ways or find another club.
the last thing we need to do is to start to sign 'the managers players'. how do we learn nothing year after year
we sign good players. fine if there has to be a wing back or two in there that is okay.
in the meantime, amorim improves the players that he is working with or we sack him and get a new head coach who can improve what he has.
improvement means results as well - not just intangibles or losses where we are able to construct some excuse like 'corners dont count' or 'we had lots of chances when we were 3 nil down'
8th last season with an injury ravaged squad suggests this isn’t a 13th in league squad by default.
This may be an experimental season and it seems like for some weird reason it’s being written off. But this squad is not bottom half table quality, there’s an argument that with Yoro and a promising looking Ugarte and a more experienced younger starters and less injuries , it’s stronger then last season.
And to be clear , I’m not having a pop at the manager. I am having a pop at people taking the default stance that this is the squad level.
It’s gonna take Amorim time and I’m fine giving him time. Just not gonna read delusional posts implying there’s nothing that can be done to improve on things.
Amorim could start by NOT playing with Malacia and Zirkzee from the start. It's almost like playing one man outnumbered when the 2 of them are playing at the same time.
It will be interesting to see how ruthless INEOS truly are in January with the playing staff. Will we get a top class set piece coach in? Will we sign a
LWB? Are they prepared to write this season off as the manager gets to grips with the club? Midtable and harder games than this coming up. City made us look good. This could get really bad for a while if we don’t react
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Yeh you just named mostly defenders....
Where's the midfielders, the creative midfielders? the strikers? the wide attackers?
We and chelsea ain't the same, your agenda is ridiculous
I’ve seen glimpsing good stuff under Amorim. I was thinking watching the last 20 minutes today - why does it seem that we just cant stop being like we are now? We’ve been getting beat a lot by smaller sides for several years. We’ve changed structure. Had a DoF. Changed loads of players, changed several managers, had new ownership of the sports side.
Why are we not particularly moving forwards?
Why are we not particularly moving forwards?
We spent upwards of 100m on Hojlund and Zirkzee who are supposed to be among the best young stirkers in europe.
We had Garnacho and Amad already on the books.
Bruno Fernandes is a top player by any metric.
We had Sancho who they now have ffs
What chelsea did differently is change their manager 4 times. We kept ETH throughout.
What exactly is it you want? Of course things aren't rosey and I've not seen a single person suggest it. The reason Amorim didn't get slaughtered for the Arsenal game is because he was weeks in the role rather than years.
ETH was a joke of a manager. Worse than Moyes imo. Clearly out of his depth.
If you follow metrics and think Bruno is a top player then all hope is lost
We spent a lot but who on earth thought Zirkzee were among 'the best young strikers in europe'
Tell you what, look at out squad, choose the players you think are young and raw and would never be a first teamer under our pl winning teams, pick the players you think are top and pick the players who are new. And then compare the what our teams were like under Fergie.
You'll soon realise how bad our squad has fallen
The squad he’s inherited was on its knees. We were trending towards relegation, never mind mid table. And he inherited this team at the beginning of a brutal run of fixture, no time to train and tough opposition (bar that one Ipswich fixture) I just think people need to chill the feck out and take a longer term view. He will hopefully get more of out this current squad than we’re seeing but there are glimpses of improvement, if you look for them. Meanwhile we all have to roll with the bunches because we all know exactly how badly this bunch of players can play when confidence is low.
I am chill, I’m just saying this is not a relegation level squad. I’ve nothing but sympathy for United managers, fans who were convinced ETH was the problem will be ironically defending Amorim against their opposites who will start to say the new manager isn’t good enough for the very same reason.
ETH finished 8th and was hammered, I can’t see how finishing lower than that this season could be dismissed as inevitable. I’ve written off the season but I didn’t think functional clubs generally do that. I can see some good and some bad stuff but I worry Amorim will be done before he gets a chance to show us what he can do.
You can’t keep saying “performances” for a season. Fans are impatient and fickle. He may need to be pragmatic or he will end up on the heap before he gets a chance. I don’t turn on managers, I’ve been a broken record about the clubs dysfunction, but in real life managers don’t get much flexibility.
so ten hag performed in line with what we could expect from the players? and had an incredible season last year finishing 8th, well above the 13th that we could expect?
Guess we have to ride through it for a couple of more years? We've been having the "it's the players", "no it's the manager" argument for a decade now. We've all agreed about the structure being wank, though. To see changes there will take more time, we just have to hope that the new structure will be a better one. Until now, we've given managers too much power when it comes to transfers, rarely getting their first targets, rather second or third options. Then we've sacked the said manager to hire a new one without any vision being implemented on how we should play and if we have the players needed to play the way the new manager wants to. Then he needs to bring his players in. Rinse and repeat. Then sometimes we decide go for random targets because we can and they're available (Sanchez, Ronaldo etc), further denting our finances and making the managers shoehorn this lot into their lineups. And here we are.
This is spot on, we’re changing how we play with and without the ball and finding out who is up to the job. The packed fixture list isn’t helping but we’re seeing an attempt to rebuild with the medium/longer term as a priority. The quick fix would be to just stick with our counter attacking approach but it’s just delaying the inevitable.
This is a mess that will take time to fix and Amorim may not even see it out but got to break the cycle at some point and of course the squad needs to be completely gutted.
Need 10 new players.
This. People on here expecting miracles from a manager just in the door. Laughable to expect that with him having to work with at least half a squad that could/should be shown the door.
Last season wasn’t incredible, no. The problem this season has been that we looked to be getting worse and were careering towards relegation when he eventually got the sack. That’s a momentum that won’t be easy to turn around. And doing it in the middle of this particular run of fixtures is a huge ask.
I agree. My point is certainly not that he should be on the clock. Rather, I'm concerned with the possibility of idealizing sentiments being turned into their opposite. We kind ofsaw that with Ten Hag.
Amorim seems a good appointment, probably the best we could hope for, but we are still kind of down in the dumps. We'll need to look at it as a long-term project that will be hairy along the way.
I’m not sure how many more times it needs to be said, but it’s not the fecking manager.
How dense do we need to be to still believe that any manager can get a tune out of the squad we’ve amassed. It’s decking ridiculous that some people still can’t see that by now.
Ten Hag was ultimately not good enough, but this bunch of players are exactly where their quality should have them. We’re a cup team capable of beating anyone on our day, but equally capable losing like this today too.
Lastly, Bournemouth are a fantastic club who ultimately deserved it today. We don’t have a divine right to win.
How dense do we need to be to still believe that any manager can get a tune out of the squad we’ve amassed. It’s decking ridiculous that some people still can’t see that by now.
Ten Hag was ultimately not good enough, but this bunch of players are exactly where their quality should have them. We’re a cup team capable of beating anyone on our day, but equally capable losing like this today too.
Lastly, Bournemouth are a fantastic club who ultimately deserved it today. We don’t have a divine right to win.
Daft OP. Every man, woman and child on earth understands that United were in shambles under ETH and that there was no way Amorim would fix everything in an instant. It will take time, possibly multiple seasons, before we see significant and consistent improvement. Yes, there’s no guarantee that Amorim will deliver what we hope for, but it’s not a case of rose tinted glasses to hope to see that ETH had to go — and should have been sacked at the end of last season — and that at the moment we had to make the decision of a successor that Amorim was the best realistic option.
When you see stupid mistakes by defenders, that’s on the defenders and not on the manager.
When you see stupid mistakes by defenders, that’s on the defenders and not on the manager.
I support him 100%. System is there for anyone to see. Problem is our squad is weak with key positions urgently needed. We lack RWB and LWB, most of the width in Amorim system comes from the fullbacks and ours deliver next to nothing. We have a really poor set of strikers and we urgently need to fix the set pieces.
It's a ver specific system that requires a lot of running and physicality which we don't have. We're being punished for silly mistakes and we waste chances.
It will click, just not with these bunch of players. Recruitment is needed.
It's a ver specific system that requires a lot of running and physicality which we don't have. We're being punished for silly mistakes and we waste chances.
It will click, just not with these bunch of players. Recruitment is needed.
There are different types of managers, ones that make an impact right away and the ones that need their players, need time and training with a squad to get results. No one knows if Amorim is going to be successful or not, but I believe he falls into the second category
We can hope for the best and expect the worst. First quarter of the next season should be the deadline in my opinion.
The team is bad and the results are more or less the same as with ETH, only positive thing is the fact that we create more chances now.
We can hope for the best and expect the worst. First quarter of the next season should be the deadline in my opinion.
The team is bad and the results are more or less the same as with ETH, only positive thing is the fact that we create more chances now.
Couldn’t agree more
I don't agree that nothing has changed. I see a team generally performing better in terms of shape, pressing and even some green shoots in the final third. Granted it was from a low bar, but it shouldn't be ignored.
A lot of the goals conceded have come from individual mistakes as well as set pieces and we still look somewhat vulnerable as a collective, when things don't go to plan. Which we saw the worst of today of course.
My worry is more whether the club is now properly aligned internally and ready to face the short term pain from betting on Amorim and trying to adopt a new system at this point in the season. If INEOS don't actually have the stomach for this, it could be a really bumpy ride.
A lot of the goals conceded have come from individual mistakes as well as set pieces and we still look somewhat vulnerable as a collective, when things don't go to plan. Which we saw the worst of today of course.
My worry is more whether the club is now properly aligned internally and ready to face the short term pain from betting on Amorim and trying to adopt a new system at this point in the season. If INEOS don't actually have the stomach for this, it could be a really bumpy ride.
Weird thread.
Honestly people who dont see the improvement under Amorim doesnt understand football.
He has
A) put out a clear spreadsheet of what needs to be done and what tactics we will play
B) Is indentifying players that dont fit his system both physically and mentally.
The foundations are right there. The result is not. It may never come but i cant fault the foundation.
Now its Ineos's turn to work with Amorim to get the best players he needs but strike a balance between a player that will still be useful under other managers.
If people wanted success straightaway we might aswell given Carrick the job.
He has
A) put out a clear spreadsheet of what needs to be done and what tactics we will play
B) Is indentifying players that dont fit his system both physically and mentally.
The foundations are right there. The result is not. It may never come but i cant fault the foundation.
Now its Ineos's turn to work with Amorim to get the best players he needs but strike a balance between a player that will still be useful under other managers.
If people wanted success straightaway we might aswell given Carrick the job.
I question how much he’s even been able to implement with the schedule we’ve had since he’s come in I reckon he’ll have had sessions in single figures.
hopefully in January with more time on the field we’ll start to improve but it’s so inconsistent at the minute
hopefully in January with more time on the field we’ll start to improve but it’s so inconsistent at the minute
I have high hopes for him, what he done with sporting was obviously a great job and the truth is the majority of our squad just isn’t good enough, he’s already dropped what in my view was our biggest problem bar none so he has me onside for the time being, but 3-0 losses at home to Bournemouth just isn’t acceptable whether it’s your 1st or 100th game.
The big concern I have is if we go out and buy players to suit his 3-4-3 formation and it doesn’t work out, moneys a big tight at the minute and we rarely sell a player for a profit, I think this is going to be the last time we can afford a full turnover of the squad,
I’d personally be happy to bin the whole squad bar Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Dalot, Ugarte, Mainoo, Garnacho Amad and Hoijlund. With a couple of them just having squad roles until they improve. They’re the few players we should be building around, the rest aren’t good enough and never will be and should be gotten rid of soon as
The big concern I have is if we go out and buy players to suit his 3-4-3 formation and it doesn’t work out, moneys a big tight at the minute and we rarely sell a player for a profit, I think this is going to be the last time we can afford a full turnover of the squad,
I’d personally be happy to bin the whole squad bar Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Dalot, Ugarte, Mainoo, Garnacho Amad and Hoijlund. With a couple of them just having squad roles until they improve. They’re the few players we should be building around, the rest aren’t good enough and never will be and should be gotten rid of soon as